Pokemon Sun and Moon

[Igor-Rowan]

Snip

You know what Kibeth said a few posts ago? How their main target audience is kids? Well, this is half true, the audience they intend to bring in and keep are the kids, but the main paying customers are people who grew up in the 150 era (Pok?mon Red and Green are still the most sold games for a reason).

So they must do something to bring them back and keep them, the former fans are getting unhappy with the franchise, not for the designs, for the fact that they add new Pok?mon as if there was something wrong with the originals (Arceus knows how many got outright offended at BW for being a fresh new region with 150 Pok?mon like the game they loved). So yeah, the re-release of the old games, Pok?mon GO having only the original Pok?mon and the new things for the old ones are there for that very reason, they left before and they might leave again.

If you leave the franchise like you said you did, they know what'll make you come back.

 

[Saelune]

the audience they intend to bring in and keep are the kids, but the main paying customers are people who grew up in the 150 era

One of them, but no. Children of today are still the key demographic. You can't bring in new customers with nostalgia. You can only bring back old ones.

So they must do something to bring them back and keep them, the former fans are getting unhappy with the franchise, not for the designs, for the fact that they add new Pok?mon as if there was something wrong with the originals

Some former fans*. But again.. Not a majority opinion. Black/White were still rated very highly on review sites. It's arguable that they'd bring relevance back to old designs regardless, because it's easier to build on existing character designs than invent new ones.

If anything, it's a perception issue. People are more likely to complain. Case and point is this thread.

Im not someone who isnt neck deep in Pokemon. I know tons of adults who loved and love the series. And it hasnt changed much for a few reasons, 1 is people dont want major changes. They -say- that but thats false. And Nintendo knows this, and thats why every game of theirs tend to be very much the same.

I know that they do expect alot of kids to play it too, but kids arent as stupid as these new games seem to think we are. I dont see why they need to be made easier than they already are.

But maybe you should play the game first.

I already know what to expect from the game. Since it's essentially still the same as the rest. Games I've played consistently since before I could read. I can tolerate extra handholding. It's no difference to me, because it's just a minor inconvenience.

And I never said the games aren't popular to adults. They're just more popular to children. And it's always been in Nintendo's best interest to try to bring them in.

And ultimately, they're not going to alienate an entire age group for the sake of some smaller features which people like you and me can easily tolerate.

I know you want to feel validated in your complaints. And that can only happen if you're the target audience. But sadly, it just isn't the case.

Yeah ok. Play the game. I mean, not like I havent literally been playing the same games you have.

Ive been playing since the start, and supposedly so have you. Ive played this one, you havent. Play it first, then get back to me.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Might have been a good argument in the 90's or early 2000's, but they should be well aware of how many adults play these games too. Adults who have been playing since they were little kids.

And I hate ALL the crappy Pokemon. Mr.Mime is awful and I want it gone just as much as many others, but it seems the NUMBER of bad pokemon increases every gen.

It isn't an argument, it's a fact. Adults are a secondary demographic for the game. They've made many quality of life changes and features to support/help adults, even competitive players.

But fact remains.. Children are the key target audience. Many of the design choices are there to make it easily accessible for young children just getting the games. They even come bundled with 2DSs.. A console literally designed for children and low income individuals.

So to you I say... Suck it up. Stop whining that Nintendo isn't catering to your age group specifically. I'm not saying you have to like the hand holding or less serious Pokemon designs. But the mature thing would be to accept it. Because a far younger community is out there enjoying them.

Adults have money, children don't. How many copies of Pokemon do you think would be sold if teenagers and adults stop buying the game? I would agrue that adults buy and play pokemon way more than children do.

So, nintendo and gamefreak needs to adult demographic to keep selling the way they are now, and it is in their best interest to keep teens and adults invested. Because thats where most of their money comes from.

You however are right. Children are the target audience. HOWEVER, they are far from being their biggest audience. Pokemon needs to cater to the people actually buying the most copies of their game, because that is where most of their revenue is coming from.

 

[Saelune]

On that note, a common complaint with reviewers is that the game is more handholding than the original. So I guess I'll see on Tuesday.. Considering the game isn't out yet in the EU.

You gave your own rebuttal.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Yes, you played Pokemon as a child. Yes, you're an adult now. But there's a reason the formula hasn't changed in 20 years. I'm hoping to god I don't have to sit here and explain it. -.-

If the target demographic has never changed, and the formula hasn't either, why does every iteration in the franchise become "more handhold-y", as is the case in point? Why have we gone from 5 minute tutorials to 2 hour tutorials?

 

[Pseudonym]

I remember having this exact reaction to the first couple of hours of pokemon Y. That got better after a while once the tutorials are over.

Each game is more and more tutorialized.

Honestly, I dont truly enjoy the game until I either I get fly, or the plot is over. I wish Pokemon games would have less plot, not more, and be less linear.

I think pokemon gold did it really well by having a pretty large 'postgame' in the form of Kanto and a kind of second final boss. This adds some optional but good meat at the end which isn't bogged down too much by tutorials and such. It also means there is a final boss which makes having pokemon above level 70 useful. I don't think they ever repeated that.

I feel that people who think like this always forget one crucial fact about Pokemon..

Children are the primary demographic.

Not teens, not adults. Just children aging from around 5-13. When I remind myself of that fact, I'm fine with the trivial things that are a minor nuisance to me, because they're a huge help to children.

I googled some stats. I found nothing entirely reliable but japanese research that I can't read myself seems to indicate that pokemon X/Y was most popular amongst 19-24 year olds. link. [http://playeressence.com/japanese-study-shows-majority-pokemon-x-y-players-college-kids/] One way or the other, being aimed at children might help explain the choice for a lot of tutorial and make it 'the right choice' but it doesn't help me or Saelune enjoy the game.

 

[kilenem]

God thank you i'm not the only one. I don't want to sound like the old man who hates everything but holly shit is this game is linear. Pokemon usually hides the game being linear by requiring pokemon to learn HM's but even then when you learn the HM you get the bonus of going back to previous spots that weren't excess able. Their is carrot and stick approach to your progress being impeded. Hell I was talking to my cousin a month before the game came out because he was happy that they're weren't HM's. I told him I like the HM system verses people stopping your progress because in Pokemon gold and Silver Kurt the ball maker pushes a team rocket member out of the way to go in to slow poke well. When a person stops you its because you are a 10 year old who doesn't have the power to move some one out of the game. As a kid I played this game for escapism.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

If the target demographic has never changed, and the formula hasn't either, why does every iteration in the franchise become "more handhold-y",

They don't. It's only a complaint in the 7th gen. Which incidentally has been the highest rated gen, by the same reviewers.

as is the case in point? Why have we gone from 5 minute tutorials to 2 hour tutorials?

Evident you've never played a Pokemon game.

Blue and Gold. Now direct me to the booth where my Opinion Gets Validated. No, wait. Let me guess. Those don't count. You didn't like them. Or two games isn't enough. Three minimum.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Also a bunch of little changes Im not sure how I feel about. Trivial enough to get over, but still. The game now tells you if moves are super-effective or not. If I was new, Id probably love it, but I guess cause I worked hard to know all the types, it makes my knowledge feel trivialized.

I feel that people who think like this always forget one crucial fact about Pokemon..

Children are the primary demographic.

Not teens, not adults. Just children aging from around 5-13. When I remind myself of that fact, I'm fine with the trivial things that are a minor nuisance to me, because they're a huge help to children.

I don't understand people who think like this.

'It was once for kids so it must always be for kids'.

No, Game Freak is surely aware that many (if not most, have there been any studies done?) of Pokemon players are NOT kids.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The amounts of adults I saw standing in the cold to get Sun and Moon two nights ago begs to differ.

No... No it doesn't. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, and assume you thought AFTER making the post. But it doesn't take a genius to piece together that...

A). A child aged 5-13 isn't going to be out at MIDNIGHT for a game.
B). A good few of those adults could have younger relatives
C). A parent is less inclined to wait at a midnight release for a game for their child.

Honestly... I find it baffling how people get so absorbed in their own little bubbles that they honestly believe everything is catered to them.

Yes, you played Pokemon as a child. Yes, you're an adult now. But there's a reason the formula hasn't changed in 20 years. I'm hoping to god I don't have to sit here and explain it. -.-

Do you have statistics on the age of Pokemon players?

 

[WeepingAngels]

I don't understand people who think like this.

'It was once for kids so it must always be for kids'.

No, Game Freak is surely aware that many (if not most, have there been any studies done?) of Pokemon players are NOT kids.

Again. Those who sincerely believe that Pokemon is aimed at adults need to think of the logistics of it. I've made my points. I'm not repeating them.

Nintendo are aware that adults play the game. Adults frequent the tournaments, and they've frequently added new features to cater to the adult crowd.

If half of you used the power of 'reading'. You'll see that I never stated that adults don't play the games. i stated that 'children come first'. And the entitlement of a few whiny teens and young adults doesn't change that.

Because again. Nintendo won't (and don't need to) alienate one entire demographic for the sake of a couple of features which their older playerbase can easily tolerate.

I usually don't use critic opinions at all. But here, they illustrate my point well. Considering that metacritic scores have been pretty consistent to the rest of the Pokemon games, for all of the whining that Saelune is doing about how shit this generation is. The reception seems to be that they're about the same.

Blue and Gold. Now direct me to the booth where my Opinion Gets Validated. No, wait. Let me guess. Those don't count. You didn't like them. Or two games isn't enough. Three minimum.

I like how you're aware your knowledge of the franchise is 20 years outdated. So you're trying to prep for that being called out.

"I don't like Ben and Jerries icecream"
"Have you ever tried it?"
"I drank some milk 20 years ago and didn't like that

So I take it that you do not know the stats about the age of players.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

 

[Saelune]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

 

[Weaver]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

Yeah! Preventing me from catching one is what really infurates me. If they'd just let me pick a ball target when there's 2 of them it would be way less annoying.

 

[Saelune]

I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.

Yes, I just recently got to this point...Why cant I use more than one Pokemon? I get it for trainers, but wild pokemon are wild...

Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.

Yeah! Preventing me from catching one is what really infurates me. If they'd just let me pick a ball target when there's 2 of them it would be way less annoying.

"You cant aim when theres more than one"...Theres just two...3 feet apart. Aim for the one thats all beat up! D:<

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Because again. Nintendo won't (and don't need to) alienate one entire demographic for the sake of a couple of features which their older playerbase can easily tolerate.

Even if Pokemon is aimed at children, excessive hand holding is an insult to their intelligence. Children don't need it and adults don't like it, so what's the point?