Pokemon Sun and Moon

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Kaimax

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Saelune said:
Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.
This "SOS" mechanic has it's positive though as some Pokemon that you won't encounter normally will come to the help.
Like one time, I was at the Volcano park.
Encountered Magby, got it's health to red. But damn thing kept calling for Help, after the 4th one, Magmar appeared. so, fuck you magby, I'll take Magmar instead.

Normally in that Area the mons that will appear in Sun version (I play Sun), is Fletchling, Cubone, Salandit, Magby and Kanghaskan (1% rate lol). 2nd slot for Helpers actually has Magmar on the list.
 

Weaver

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Kaimax said:
Saelune said:
Its not even that its hard, its just tedious. Especially when trying to actually catch the pokemon.
This "SOS" mechanic has it's positive though as some Pokemon that you won't encounter normally will come to the help.
Like one time, I was at the Volcano park.
Encountered Magby, got it's health to red. But damn thing kept calling for Help, after the 4th one, Magmar appeared. so, fuck you magby, I'll take Magmar instead.

Normally in that Area the mons that will appear in Sun version (I play Sun), is Fletchling, Cubone, Salandit, Magby and Kanghaskan (1% rate lol). 2nd slot for Helpers actually has Magmar on the list.
The downside to it is there are a select few pokemon who only ever appear when they're called in for help, which is really tedious lol.
 

CritialGaming

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Saelune said:
So, I got it last night at the midnight release cause...my friends showed up to go to it.

So Ive been playing it. Now, I know I was going in with a cynical attitude due to all the awful pokemon and dumb ideas...

and its not changing anytime soon. MY GOD JUST LET ME PLAY! 20 minutes before I even got my starter, and I used to think Red and Blue took too long to get started. And Im over 2 hours in and still being rail-roaded to all hell. Now I am being BULL-ied into going to the trainer school, something usually quite optional. Can I please have a "Im not a 2 year old, I know how Pokemon works" option?

I also dont really feel like Im playing a new generation of Pokemon. I dont know if its cause the game is pissing me off, or if its cause I played too much Pokemon in my life, or if its cause I feel like Im just playing a combination of last gen. Feels more like X and Y, but in a tropical ORAS setting...meh.

Also a bunch of little changes Im not sure how I feel about. Trivial enough to get over, but still. The game now tells you if moves are super-effective or not. If I was new, Id probably love it, but I guess cause I worked hard to know all the types, it makes my knowledge feel trivialized.

And now you can Pokemon-Amie after battle. I guess as a means to get people to use it, though Amie really is just there to make a rather easy game even easier.

I want my opinion on this game to improve...but its not...

Oh yeah, and you have a Rotom, but dont. Your Pokedex has a Rotom in it...but you dont "own" it nor is it in your Pokedex list. I wish Pokemon you just meet would get added. Even Ash dragged out his Dex every two seconds in the original cartoon.

Anyways, I mean, its a new Pokemon game. I guess people are either playing it, or waiting to get it, but Id have thought there'd be a little more discussion on it than there is.
I feel you man. When the Sun/Moon hype train started rolling in I was rather unimpressed. I thought and still think the "Aloha" forms of the original Pokemon is a stupid idea that didn't interest me in the least. I was already disappointed with X/Y because the "new" generation only had 61 pokemon in it. And Generation 7 was looking to be very much the same kind of thing.

Yet the Pokedex leaked and I thought that a lot of the new pokemon looked badass. Plus after reading a couple of reviews, I became curious to see how they changed the formula of the games.

Sadly I bought into the game and I'm completely underwhelmed. It's just another Pokemon game, only with an overly long and rather stupid tutorial. The map is literally spelled out for you and there are even icons on the map that tell you exactly where to go and when. I hate it. I hate it all.

At this point, there are only a couple of good things in the game. 1. The game seems a lot harder than previous pokemon games. I dunno if it has to do with early pokemon typing or what, but it does seem harder. 2. Team Skull is the best team that has ever existed in a pokemon game ever in the existance of ever. Yes, even better than the OG Rocket.

I dunno, maybe after 20 years of playing the same shit over and over with the added bonus of having a exponentially difficult completion requirement, I'm just bored of the formula. Even the island style gym things here aren't exciting enough to make me care. Chances are, I'll beat the elite four with whatever team I happen to pick up along the way, and never touch this game again. No more 250hour catch 'em all investments for me.
 

CritialGaming

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Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.
 

Weaver

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CritialGaming said:
Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.
It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun
 

CritialGaming

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Weaver said:
CritialGaming said:
Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.
It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun
Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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CritialGaming said:
Weaver said:
CritialGaming said:
Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
Fuck everything about this mechanic. I'd be okay if it was once in a while, but it is literally every fucking wild fight. The only solution is O-Koing.
It's highly annoying when just trying to catch something. There's any number of things they could do to improve it:
1) Let you have two pokemon
2) Let you throw a ball at one of the two pokemon
3) Limit the number of call-ins per battle
4) Have the call action actually take a move instead of happening between rounds
5) everything above

But the way it is now is just not fun
Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.
I also don't care about those things lol. I've never dove deep enough to care about EV or IV points either, and really don't want to. And while I know they have a very dedicated and passionate fanbase that does care about these things - I can't help but feel the casual Pokemon players such as ourselves must outnumber them by a high margin.

If that is the justification for this feature, they should have it be a late game / end game feature. "Oh you got all the stamps, pokemon know how strong a trainer you are and will now call in their friends for help!" there's a story justification.
 

CritialGaming

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Weaver said:
Supposedly, if you let the chain of summons go on long enough there is a higher chance you'll get a pokemon with a hidden ability or a shiny. But for people like me who don't give a fuck about those things, it sucks dicks.
I also don't care about those things lol. I've never dove deep enough to care about EV or IV points either, and really don't want to. And while I know they have a very dedicated and passionate fanbase that does care about these things - I can't help but feel the casual Pokemon players such as ourselves must outnumber them by a high margin.

If that is the justification for this feature, they should have it be a late game / end game feature. "Oh you got all the stamps, pokemon know how strong a trainer you are and will now call in their friends for help!" there's a story justification.[/quote]

The thing is, they already had a mechanic for this. If you complete the local pokedex you get a ticket that increases the chance of hatching or getting shinys in the wild. So people who cared could hunt them if they wanted them.

Not only is this current mechanic stupid, but it isn't ever explained or told to the player in game. Pokemon has always been full of hidden bullshit and features, and I don't understand why they continue to do that shit. Hidden abilities? Hidden Stats? Natures? Shinys? Why don't they explain this shit to people?
 

Wrex Brogan

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-looks at thread-

...fucking hell guys, it's a game about catching adorable critters and becoming best friends with 'em as you fight an evil corporation. Chillax thine mammories, and quit shit-kicking over 'demographics' or whatever. God damn.

*ahem* personally, I'm loving this new gen - especially the Alolan forms. Yeah, fuck you Alakazam, you can't Psychic my Muk now! I'm also quite enjoying the story of this one, and found it to be a rather refreshing change of pace to the other games with the focus on the various Trials rather than Gym battles (and the new end-game stuff ties into it all pretty interestingly too).

That said, I've still got a few quirks with the game - like... shit, why is everything so slow this generation? Muk, a pokemon characterized in the first gen as a bulky-but-slow physical attacker, damn-near outspeeds half the pokemon that've been introduced. While a lot of 'em tend to be quite bulky themselves, it's just weird that the number of non-legendary Alolan pokemon with a base speed higher than 70 is surprisingly low.

Also, slightly disappointed with Decidueye - advertised as a 'speedy mixed attacker', yet base-70 speed and a moveset that is entirely physical attacks doesn't really come to mind as a 'speedy mixed attacker'. Plus because of the general bulkiness of the Alolan pokemon, it doesn't have the punch to reliably 2-hit KO many of them, and lacks the bulk to take a hit in return. Ah well, at least it's design is pretty cool (and Rowlet is adorable in Pokemon Refresh).

Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
EIGHTEEN ELEKIDS, 6 ELECTABUZZ. GOD DAMMIT, LET ME CATCH THE ONE I STARTED THE FIGHT WITH.

Also there's a handful of pokemon that can only be encountered through the S.O.S battles, which is annoying. Though apparently you can also encounter shit like a level 8 Salamence in some areas because of it...
 

Shoggoth2588

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I've put about...19 hours into the game so far and while the game does start kinda slowly, I still found it to be really charming. It's also packed to the gills with Pokemon: I spent 2 hours on route 1 looking for Grubbin but instead found things like Ledyba, Caterpie, Pikipek, Trumpgoose and, Pichu. Anyway, it is kinda weird that the Ride Pokemon and Rotom stick around but aren't technically yours. It would be nice to at least see something about Lapras, Rotom and, Charizard in my Dex after I get the Amazon Dash Button that summons them.

When it comes to the game telling your about weaknesses, I don't see that as being too obtrusive, especially when it comes to peculiar type combinations like Ghost/Grass or, Steel/Electric. What I find more annoying are the Z-Moves which are effective to use but they have the same problem that Summons/GFs had from about Final Fantasy VII - XII (and probably XIII, I don't remember it as much): You press a button to make a strong attack happen and wind up in an unskippable animation for X seconds which seems fine the first few times but just gets to the point where the novelty wears out and you just want to get on with the fight.

I'm really liking Pokemon Sun so far and I see myself taking it all the way to the end-game. It's kind of an ass that I can't transfer from XYORAS to Sun/Moon without buying into Pokebank but I was never that big into that aspect of the games anyway.

I forgot to mention this: In every other Pokemon game before now, the Pokemon School seemed utterly pointless and that's if you even bothered to set foot into the place. In THIS game, it felt almost like a gym. Fight 4 kids, maybe read a blackboard if you want, then fight a teacher who put up more of a fight than the last few 1st badge gym leaders I can recall at the moment.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Weaver said:
I'm really liking the game but I hate the "call for help" mechanic. I had to fight like 6 zubats in one encounter.
If I recall correctly if you kill the original the chain stops but I might be misremembering that.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Jan 28, 2016
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xaszatm said:
Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
see, everytime I've seen all that come up I always see 'Theory' with it - is it actually stated anywhere in the game? I've finished the thing and I saw some 'maybes', but nothing definite or concrete.

especially considering Looker isn't a Faller? From all the post-game questline, he and Nanu were working with a Faller who got killed by Guzzlord, and Anabel's existence doesn't really prove the 'old reality got destroyed' since the Ultra Wormholes seem to be able to transport shit around the same plane as well. Destroyed another universe? Possibly, and as another post-game event goes the Ultra Wormholes can phase into other realities (i.e. enter Moon from Sun, or Sun from Moon), but nothing I saw was explicitly 'The R/B/Y timeline is destroyed'.

Maybe I missed a book somewhere or didn't read a conversation right, but... yeah, that theory just feels like the usual 'Over-reading Fan Theory' rather than anything concrete. Kinda like a lot of the stuff people were coming up with during the announcements for Sun and Moon itself, really.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Wrex Brogan said:
xaszatm said:
Jeez...none of you are going to like the huge reveal in this game then...

Your favorite games from Red/Blue all the way to X/Y? They're all destroyed. Yes, continuing from the Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire plot of this universe not being the same universe of the previous games before it, we are told that the Ultra Beasts invaded the old world and pretty much murdered every living soul. That means every Pokemon, every gym leader, every champion all died offscreen by the Ultra Beasts. And the Pokedex goes into detail how. UB-01 mind controls humans and cause them to go crazy and kill everything. UB-02 slaughters everyone in its path. UB-03 destroyed all forms of electrical power. UB-04 destroyed freaking skyscrapers by either crushing or slicing them. And UB-05 swallowed entire oceans (so...Team Magma victory?). The only two survivors from this universe was Looker from Pearl/Diamond and Annabeth from Pokemon Emerald. And they were survivors solely because the Ultra Beasts can track where these "fallers" go into new dimensions. Like Sun/Moon.

I personally enjoyed this game but MAN can I see people getting pissed at this information.
see, everytime I've seen all that come up I always see 'Theory' with it - is it actually stated anywhere in the game? I've finished the thing and I saw some 'maybes', but nothing definite or concrete.

especially considering Looker isn't a Faller? From all the post-game questline, he and Nanu were working with a Faller who got killed by Guzzlord, and Anabel's existence doesn't really prove the 'old reality got destroyed' since the Ultra Wormholes seem to be able to transport shit around the same plane as well. Destroyed another universe? Possibly, and as another post-game event goes the Ultra Wormholes can phase into other realities (i.e. enter Moon from Sun, or Sun from Moon), but nothing I saw was explicitly 'The R/B/Y timeline is destroyed'.

Maybe I missed a book somewhere or didn't read a conversation right, but... yeah, that theory just feels like the usual 'Over-reading Fan Theory' rather than anything concrete. Kinda like a lot of the stuff people were coming up with during the announcements for Sun and Moon itself, really.
Hm...maybe i'm misremembering it? The Looker I'm talking about is the amnesiac one from ORAS, btw. not the one here. I recall this information being relayed to you before you go to fight Ultra Lusamine but it could be the overeactionary fanbase that pushed me to that conclusion. I'm doing my Moon campaign right now so I"ll be able to figure that out myself soon enough.
 

Saelune

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Kibeth41 said:
Okay yeah... Everything I took your word for in the OP ended up being exaggerated bull. The beginning is a bit longer, but not '2 hours'. Even then, it's just story elements, not tutorials. The hand-holding seems to just be referring to elements which make the game slightly easier than past iterations, with objective markers, Pokedex conveniences and listed typings in battle.

It's now pretty evident that your opinion is just a product of wanting to be 'right' in your initially overly cynical opinions.
I could say the same to you. But if you want to just be confrontational instead of having a discussion about it, thats your choice. Ive seen enough people echo my sentiments, and ofcourse there are always going to be die hard fans who accept everything fed to them, no matter how tart.
 

Joccaren

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Mar 29, 2011
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I love and hate the game.

There are a lot of things I love about it. With some exceptions, a lot of the pokemon are actually good looking. Mostly, they're animals or plants of some kind, that are monsters - rather than fucking humanoids all over the place, or weird things like a set of just two gears floating in the sky. That said, there are still some weird ones, but I guess there always will be.
Pokemon seem to have more HP, more defences, less damage, or a mix of all the above. Even 10 levels higher than an opponent, I find I'm often not guaranteed a 1HKO, unless its a super effective move, or a Snorlax body slam. Hell, starting the game a Litten with ember took 4 hits to beat a Rowlette. With its super effective move. I can only imagine had I used scratch like in the originals. I find this makes fights more interesting in total, because even if I've got a main deathbot or something, I can't just 1HKO my way through 30 trainers and only go to the PC for PP. You'll slowly take attrition damage, and this encourages people to use more of their party, more often, and adds more choice to the game in terms of who you use, when and why.
The graphics are nice, and the removal of HMs for the Pokemon summons has been a long time coming. Maybe not the best way to have handled them overall, but still good. The characters, as a broader look, are kind of cool and fun - and in general that plays through the whole game, with the team obviously having had fun making this and making it a less serious game in many aspects.
The slight changeup from Gyms to challenges is also pretty fun. It was getting hard for them to make new puzzles for the gyms I felt, and the formula there was starting to get a bit up tight. As things are now, it feels a lot more fresh and fun.

The downsides though?
Dear god, this game isn't hand holdy, it is literally on-rails. You're not kidding about 2 hours to just get your starting pokemon [As opposed to maybe 10 minutes in red, at most]. And probably 1.5 of those two hours is spent in an incredibly long cutscene. You don't even get to play much, and what little you do get to play, is walking.
I've played a LOT more from then on, and things do get better, but the game constantly interrupts you and stops you in a cutscene.
Its also terrible with false choices. "Go see character x to do x, or see character y to do y", really means "Go see character y". Character x does nothing and just gives you a reason why they can't do anything, despite literally 5 minutes ago the game telling you to go see them and do something with them. The linearity is normal. It hides it FAR worse than previously.
Some of the dialogue and characters is also just downright cringeworthy with how over the top stereotypical it is. Like, holy hell.
Additionally, not a huge fan of the mechanical map design level. It feels like the trend that started with Black/White, of the world being mostly a set piece with no mechanical point, has continued on. There are a couple of cool bits and pieces, but so much of it also seems to just be in the way "But it looks cool" stuff as well. To compensate for this, a lot of it is non-continuous. There isn't an interconnected overworld, there's a bunch of zones that I'm 75% sure probably don't actually piece together properly, and are made the way they are so that things can look cool, rather than feeling like a continuous world. Almost all of the actual exploration of the world is gone, and its just "Look at the pretty! Now follow this very linear path to your next destination". There is some side stuff to do and look around at, but that's very short, and fairly rare.

So, overall, its a new-gen pokemon game. The strengths of the game have been improved, and the weaknesses have gotten worse. Overall its a good and fun game, and I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean its perfect. Its still got its problems.
 

WeepingAngels

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My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
 

Yoshi178

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Wrex Brogan said:
That said, I've still got a few quirks with the game - like... shit, why is everything so slow this generation? Muk, a pokemon characterized in the first gen as a bulky-but-slow physical attacker, damn-near outspeeds half the pokemon that've been introduced. While a lot of 'em tend to be quite bulky themselves, it's just weird that the number of non-legendary Alolan pokemon with a base speed higher than 70 is surprisingly low.
2 Words: Battle Royale.

Play that game type and the slow speeds will make ALOT more sense to you.
 

Saelune

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WeepingAngels said:
My copy comes in today. 2 Hours to get your starter??? That might be a deal breaker. I mean it takes no more than 15 minutes in Omega Ruby (which I am currently playing). I can't even imagine it taking 8 times as long.
It wasnt 2 hours for me, but it was 20 minutes, even with rushing through it. But it takes a long time before you feel like you can do much, and even then I feel very limited.