Police Ignore 21 Phone Calls from Suicidal Mother

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Once again, I can agree with you. But as members of this species, we shouldn't be objective. We should try to advance our species and improve ourselves.

Consider the fact that science which has given us many of the technological advancements you are so fond of comes from a discipline which strives to be as objective as possible. Objectivism is a step stone towards improvement. It let's you process facts without ego centric concerns in mind.

Another option would be an improved living standard in currently developing and third-world nations that would result in a similar decline in birth rates and HIV infections based on higher contraceptive use. The problems you mention are real threats but not predetermined. We can avoid them. But they won't solve themselves.

It won't happen, mainly because so many industrialised nations and their businesses are dependant on keeping third world countries poor and to low standards of living. These types of countries offer cheap labour and cheap ways of procuring natural resources, mainly because you don't have to pay the peasants in third world countries appropriate sums of money for the goods they try to sell. They'll settle for very low sums.

If this were to be changed then most industrialised nations (like the U.S and many European countries) would see their entire economy collapse. They would never allow that to happen, hence the poor will be kept poor.

Well, we Westerners do resist (at least the procreation-part), it stands to reason the rest of the world can as well, given the right circumstances.

Which is highly unlikely.

I think it was pretty good considering both are based on our animalistic instincts, the Id so to speak.

No, it's not "want" in the way that I want to have a new car or a bigger house, it's "want" in the sense that we have a biological urge to want it. It's part of our nature. We might change that over time but it's nothing to be ashamed of right now, really.

I don't care for shame. Once again I just pointed out the issues about fucking which you asked me to do. You've got your answer, are you gonna try to disprove them or are you gonna leave it at rationalising it and ignoring the issues at hand?

That's simply wrong considering how the world changed. I could point at the EU again, but I guess you already know what I'm getting at.
There is opposition at first, sure. But once people realise that the change was for the better, they accept it and end up protecting it fiercely.
To say that "nothing ever changes, so what's the point" is wrong and lazy.
We didn't get democracy and human rights by doing nothing, you know.

We don't have democracy or human rights in reality. These are just examples of idealistic illusions which doesn't really hold much sway. Just look at how ell the human rights are followed, even in industrialised nations (need I remind you of the torture commited at Guantanamo Bay by the U.S?)

As for democracy, well it's a nice show but itäs not reality. Pretty much any nation calling itself "democratic" really has only one governing body which never changes. In the U.S you have either Republicans or Democrats (static parties which never change much or go away), here in Sweden we have a similar ruling body with several traditional parties whose mandates change only ever so slightly between each election, and once they have the seats of power they even bargain with eachother and compromise their political ideals in order to get favors in return.

Sorry, but democracy is an illusion. It doesn't really exist. Neither does human rights.

Well, it was. Electric light was a giant leap.
As was the steam-engine or the first car.
Did I mention that we made a lot of great advancements in the last few centuries?

Yes but it doesn't matter. Im still not impressed. Mainly because each time a new technological advancement is made it is always considered to be "a huge leap". My issue with it is the fact that it doesn't seem to "leap" anywhere in particular.

Biological change is slower than cultural and technological progress, true. In fact, some scientists say that if you transplanted a stone age child into today's world and raised it like a normal kid, it would be in no way less intelligent or able than any other kid born today. Another hint to our potential.
What would happen if we transplanted a person from today ten thousand years into the future? Probably the same thing.
Our "evolution" as a species has mostly been a cultural one, that doesn't make it any less important. Instinct will always be a part of humanity (unless we remove it somehow, maybe through genetic engineering or something), but society has "shackled the beast" so to speak.

No society has provided the illusion of a shackled beast, along with delusions of grandeur. The beast is still out there and it is what really controls all humans. Hence my disillusioned attitude towards humanity. You can take a monkey and dress it up in a suit and send it of to work at an office, but it's still just a monkey and will never be anything more than a monkey.

It's just that this kind of monkey is pretty nasty and despicable one who rapes, tortures and kills his fellow man, and even invents more destructive ways of doing it, all the while it is proclaiming itself to be "better" than other animals. It can't even be open about it's animalistic and barbaric nature, but has to be a hypocrite about it.

Like I said: extermination really is the only way.

But culture isn't the same everywhere on this planet (yet), of course there are still people who seem backwards to us. And it's not surprising that the poor, the uneducated and the downtrodden are the people most prone to falling into extremism and political abuse.
Again, it's the circumstances (socio-economical, educational, political and so on) that determine how peaceful or warlike a group is. So if we could - as peacefully as possible to avoid driving people into the arms of extremists - spread wealth, democratic ideology and "modern society", countries that are currently considered gruesome and backwards could be transformed.

You mean the way the U.S tried to do in Iraq? XD

-"America! Fuck Yeah! You're gonna have democracy whether you like it or not!"

... Sorry, I don't see it happening that well. Seems like it mess up more than it actually helps.

True, but those (bolded) are the minority. Since the Age of Enlightenment, religion has been on a slow decline and it will continue to do so. I don't care about the others as long as they don't interfere with secular matters.

Oh but they do. Seem to be many "religious" people's favourite pastime to fuck with science and technology as much as they can.

Democracy, protects us from arbitrary laws, persecution and murder every day.
Progress is what sets us apart from the animals who have a set of limited skills that only change on a biological (and therefore extremely slow level). Maybe we've gotten used to what progress granted us, but if we step back and actually look at our lives, we can see how important both the cultural and technological advancements are.

"Democracy protects us from arbitrary laws, persecution and murder every day", huh?

Tell that to the tortured at Guantanamo. Tell that to some of the people who where granted political asylum over here in my country, only to be covertly deported either to the C.I.A or to their own countries to be tortured.

Tell that to the families of murder victims.

Im sorry to say it, but the more this conversation drags on, the more naive you seem to be...

 

[Woodsey]

And if they've made inquiries and they've misjudged the situation (again, only human) and they think it's less severe than it is and the lady kept ringing up - it's not irrational or totally illogical to think she may be worrying too much about what is probably nothing.

Uh, wait a minute. 21 Inquries along with the fact that it was a mother to a child who had some disabilities. You'd think that the police should be able to add two and two together and NOT just assume that it's just a mom who's worrying "too much".

Let this be a lesson folks: Take the law into your own hands, and cover your own ass rather than trust the police to save you from anything...

Uh bloody hell, my point was mistakes like this are normally pretty isolated, and mistakes happen. An un-ignorable mistake, but a mistake.

And right, I'm sure you're rock 'ard so you'd never call the police for anything...

No ones perfect, and the police involved made a mistake - you try and see how much better the country is without police. With you giving out all your 'justice'.

Talk about ignorance. Obviously you've never made a mistake, or had a misunderstanding that's gone out of control?

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Uh bloody hell, my point was mistakes like this are normally pretty isolated, and mistakes happen. An un-ignorable mistake, but a mistake.

And right, I'm sure you're rock 'ard so you'd never call the police for anything...

No ones perfect, and the police involved made a mistake - you try and see how much better the country is without police. With you giving out all your 'justice'.

Talk about ignorance. Obviously you've never made a mistake, or had a misunderstanding that's gone out of control?

Oh yes, I've made mistakes. The thing is, when I make mistakes I suffer for it. Pretty reasonable really.

When the cops make mistakes, OTHER PEOPLE suffer for it. Sometimes they even die for it. And for what? Because some shitty dispatch officer didn't even bother to check some forms about exactly how many calls had been made from that location over the past few years?

The way I see it, if you are in a threatening situation where some psycho is banging at your window trying to get in, you can either:

A. Grab the baseball bat in the hallway and hit the psycho until he stops moving, and perhaps risk jailtime for manslaughter.

OR

B. Sit paitently and wait for the police to show up, risking getting stabbed to death by the psycho who will probably be able to make it inside long before the cops get their thumbs out of their asses to show up. (in fact, sometimes the cops will simply hang up on you saying "We can't spare a car at the moment")

Alternative A might be considered a mistake, since it might put you in jail. Alternative B is just plain stupid since you basically put your own life into the hands of incompetent people.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be alive and in jail than stupid and dead. And im sorry, but I can't really be "forgiving and understanding" towards the incompetent fucks calling themselves police officers from beyond the grave. In fact, no one can...

 

[Skeleon]

Consider the fact that science which has given us many of the technological advancements you are so fond of comes from a discipline which strives to be as objective as possible.

Yes. Your point being?
How does that have any bearing on how individuals behave?

It won't happen, mainly because so many industrialised nations and their businesses are dependant on keeping third world countries poor and to low standards of living.

You see, instead of actually striving for any change you simply state "it's impossible" and move on. I'm not content with that.
Similar things were said about the former Soviet countries and today some of the are productive members of the EU. Cooperation has time and time again shown to be the better way in the long run though more costly short-term.

You've got your answer, are you gonna try to disprove them or are you gonna leave it at rationalising it and ignoring the issues at hand?

What issues at hand?

We don't have democracy or human rights in reality.

Tell that to the tortured at Guantanamo. Tell that to some of the people who where granted political asylum over here in my country, only to be covertly deported either to the C.I.A or to their own countries to be tortured.

Not true. I can express myself any way I want, I have a choice of representatives available for elections, I am as free as possible without infringing another's freedoms (from what I can tell). I don't claim that it works perfectly but considering the alternatives, well. It's the best option we currently got. And it's definitely an improvement over the despotisms and monarchies or fascist dictatorships of the past.

As for your point about Guantanamo Bay, well. Let's just say I don't consider the Bush-(or should I say Cheney-?)Administration to be a valid executive force. In case you didn't notice, there are still discussions about torture going on in the USA about punishing those involved. So far my hopes that those criminals will be brought to justice have not been fulfilled, though. But that's what they are: Criminals. What they did was a giant leap backwards and they should be punished for it.

Yes but it doesn't matter. Im still not impressed. Mainly because each time a new technological advancement is made it is always considered to be "a huge leap". My issue with it is the fact that it doesn't seem to "leap" anywhere in particular.

Again, it simply doesn't matter to you. I don't get it. How was the invention of the car not a giant leap? Or electric light? What do you expect of a great invention that none of these milestones fulfilled?
As for "leaping anywhere in particular", inventions often occur through chance or accident (read up on Penicillin if you care) while other times they're made because of a specific demand for innovation. So while progress is sometimes random (and still beneficial), it also happens to follow specific requirements at other times. There are both.

No society has provided the illusion of a shackled beast, along with delusions of grandeur.

How so? Do you deny that life has become safer than it was back when only aristocrats had any rights at all? That people more rarely run around murdering and raping people? That infringements of human rights are followed by a media uproar? How can you ignore all these things?

You can take a monkey and dress it up in a suit and send it of to work at an office, but it's still just a monkey and will never be anything more than a monkey.

A monkey trained to follow certain rules is a far more amicable monkey. It may still be a monkey, but it can live in a more civilized society. If the monkeys are properly trained, the flinging of poo will occur at a far lower frequency.

It's just that this kind of monkey is pretty nasty and despicable one who rapes, tortures and kills his fellow man...

I never said those people don't still exist. But you very probably won't be murdered leaving your house tomorrow morning. That's something people could not be sure of in the past.

You mean the way the U.S tried to do in Iraq? XD

I think I made it clear that I'm for peaceful proliferation. Now you're just trying to be snappish because you disagree.
I'm deeply opposed to forcing ideology on other people.

Sorry, I don't see it happening that well. Seems like it mess up more than it actually helps.

Exactly what I meant when I said "as peacefully as possible to avoid driving people into the arms of extremists" which you chose to ignore.

 

[ElephantGuts]

Really? A 38 year old woman killed herself because she was being teased by bullies? I'm not surprised the police didn't take the situation more seriously. Who would have thought she would kill herself over that? Besides, bullying is a hard thing to prevent, especially when it's not confined to a school or something similar.

 

[Woodsey]

Uh bloody hell, my point was mistakes like this are normally pretty isolated, and mistakes happen. An un-ignorable mistake, but a mistake.

And right, I'm sure you're rock 'ard so you'd never call the police for anything...

No ones perfect, and the police involved made a mistake - you try and see how much better the country is without police. With you giving out all your 'justice'.

Talk about ignorance. Obviously you've never made a mistake, or had a misunderstanding that's gone out of control?

Oh yes, I've made mistakes. The thing is, when I make mistakes I suffer for it. Pretty reasonable really.

When the cops make mistakes, OTHER PEOPLE suffer for it. Sometimes they even die for it. And for what? Because some shitty dispatch officer didn't even bother to check some forms about exactly how many calls had been made from that location over the past few years?

The way I see it, if you are in a threatening situation where some psycho is banging at your window trying to get in, you can either:

A. Grab the baseball bat in the hallway and hit the psycho until he stops moving, and perhaps risk jailtime for manslaughter.

OR

B. Sit paitently and wait for the police to show up, risking getting stabbed to death by the psycho who will probably be able to make it inside long before the cops get their thumbs out of their asses to show up. (in fact, sometimes the cops will simply hang up on you saying "We can't spare a car at the moment")

Alternative A might be considered a mistake, since it might put you in jail. Alternative B is just plain stupid since you basically put your own life into the hands of incompetent people.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be alive and in jail than stupid and dead. And im sorry, but I can't really be "forgiving and understanding" towards the incompetent fucks calling themselves police officers from beyond the grave. In fact, no one can...

Uh, that's utter bollocks. If you make a mistake (unless you're a recluse) then it's going to affect someone else in someway. And wow, believe it or not you can't always see the outcome of things.

I've made my point so whatever, no point getting into some huge debate over it. The fact of the matter is, all you know is what has been reported. You don't know the finer details, you don't know what was said in the calls, you don't know how far the polices inquiries went, and you don't know the future, nor does anyone.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Uh, that's utter bollocks. If you make a mistake (unless you're a recluse) then it's going to affect someone else in someway. And wow, believe it or not you can't always see the outcome of things.

I am reclusive, so your point doesn't hold up. At the very worst my mistakes have a negligible influence on others. They don't become horribly injured or killed due to my mistakes.

I've made my point so whatever, no point getting into some huge debate over it. The fact of the matter is, all you know is what has been reported. You don't know the finer details, you don't know what was said in the calls, you don't know how far the polices inquiries went, and you don't know the future, nor does anyone.

Seriously, 21 FUCKING INQUIRIES. That's 21 individual calls which should've been followed up.

You'd think that something else than just driving by and shining a flashlight would've been done. Or they could have spoken with the lady herself and asked what's going on, perhaps after the 17th or 18th time she called. Get her story about her daughter being disabled and that this draws a lot of flak from some fuckwads in the neighbourhood and then the cops could've contacted social services or doing some research into the matter themselves.

1,2 or 3 inquiries can be understandable. But 21!? Come on!

 

[park92]

just say fine then if your not gonna do anything i'll shoot them myself in which time 10 police officers will come in 5 minutes

 

[park92]

just do A and say it was self defence

 

[Woodsey]

Uh, that's utter bollocks. If you make a mistake (unless you're a recluse) then it's going to affect someone else in someway. And wow, believe it or not you can't always see the outcome of things.

I am reclusive, so your point doesn't hold up. At the very worst my mistakes have a negligible influence on others. They don't become horribly injured or killed due to my mistakes.

I've made my point so whatever, no point getting into some huge debate over it. The fact of the matter is, all you know is what has been reported. You don't know the finer details, you don't know what was said in the calls, you don't know how far the polices inquiries went, and you don't know the future, nor does anyone.

Seriously, 21 FUCKING INQUIRIES. That's 21 individual calls which should've been followed up.

You'd think that something else than just driving by and shining a flashlight would've been done. Or they could have spoken with the lady herself and asked what's going on, perhaps after the 17th or 18th time she called. Get her story about her daughter being disabled and that this draws a lot of flak from some fuckwads in the neighbourhood and then the cops could've contacted social services or doing some research into the matter themselves.

1,2 or 3 inquiries can be understandable. But 21!? Come on!

It said they went round and spoke to neighbours. You're saying they spoke to the neighbours and then said absoloutely nothing to her? That makes sense doesn't it.

And it also says they advised her about the situation.