Poll: Abortion : Should men get a say?

[Kojii Doom]

I myself think that men should not only get a say on the abortion subject, but they should also be allowed to have one.

 

[JaredXE]

Raising a child is a beautiful experience to anybody who has never had to do it.

My youngest brother was an unexpected pregnancy for my parents. My next youngest brother is eight years older than him. I'm old enough to be his mother. (an EXTREMELY young mother, but whatever.) For six years I've watched him grow up. I've changed his diapers, fed him, bathed him, and taken care of him. That kid has thrown up on me more than once and peed on me more times than I care to remember. And you know what? He is pretty much my favorite person in the world. And there is no better feeling in the world than putting him to bed at night.

Maybe you have Mommy/Daddy issues, or maybe you're just that particularly annoying kind of jackass who by some conundrum hates both kids and women, but still has a healthy appetite for sex. Either way, I'm getting so totally beyond sick of your unfounded generalizations. Grow up.

Isn't it a generalization to state that raising kids is the most rewarding thing in life and that EVERYONE loves it? Some people don't like children. Some people don't want to have children because they don't buy into the propaganda that everything must be for and about children.

Sometimes, children just suck.

Oh, and before you assume that I also know nothing about kids and never had a hand in raising them, my mother was a foster mother since I was 12. She later adopted 3 of her foster kids. I have been an unoffical father/brother to many kids...changing, feeding, playing, taking to appointments. In fact, it's my experiences with foster children that allow me to ascribe to the idea that sometimes it's better for a child to be aborted than to live the shit life that its shit parents will thrust upon it. An abortion is surely better than being beaten, ignored, having their clothes sold for drugs, being made to use a beer can for a toilet(true story) and otherwise growing up in miserable poverty with miserable and abusive parents.

 

[Andalusa]

It depends on a lot of things. If they aren't in a long term relationship then no, if it was a one night stand then no, if the girl is young or under age then no. If they are married and in a happy relationship then yes, if the father was going too be 100% involved in the babies life if it were to get born then yes.

 

[veloper]

The ultimate decision should be the woman's.

BECAUSE WOMEN NEVER DO ANYTHING BAD AMIRITE?

No, because only the woman has to go through pregnancy.

Since abortion is a boolean, that also implies men should get no say in the matter.

Sorry, but that line of thinking stopped being fair when women were no longer expected to stay barefoot and pregnant.

A woman has the right to say "no" when a man wants to have sex. The man has the right to say "no" when a woman wants to have children with him.

If a man uses a condom and the woman--for whatever reason--ends up pregnant, how is that his fault?

It isn't.
However, I believe should not be the man's problem either:
While women should determine what happens in their own bellies, men should have the right to renounce any bastard during a short period after they find out about the pregnancy and not pay any child support.

When a woman gets pregnant, she has to live with the consequences of it for the rest of her life. Why should the man be able to say, "um, no thanks!" and not have any responsibility for his child?

Because beside the boring option (not having sex out of marriage), a woman* has full control over 3 main alternatives that the man doesn't:

1. the pill
2. the morning after pill
3. abortion

*) in the western world and excluding bizarre cases.

If a man isn't prepared to do right by the woman he's sleeping with should she get pregnant, then he shouldn't be having sex.

Wrong. The only requirement here is that both parties are consenting to sex and are of a legal age.

If he doesn't have the emotional maturity to accept the consequences of his actions, then he's not ready. When a woman gets pregnant, she can't just say "backsies" and make the whole thing go away.

Pregnancy is not by any means the consequence of the man's actions. He doesn't take the pill, but she does.

When a woman gets pregnant it's only because she wants to.
Any girl with half a brain will always use both anti-conception AND a condom when with her date. There is no excuse for a bastard by accident.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

You, sir, have clearly no idea what a feminist is.

Most commonly, a feminist is also a woman who believes herself and her fellow women to be superior to all men. That may not be the technical definition, but "misandronist" isn't syntactically correct, "misanthrope" refers to a person who hates all people, and the two usually end up going hand-in hand.

Now, I'll grant you that the pro-sex/sex-positive feminists are actually sane, since most of them do not hate men, look at heterosex as simply another form of rape, or go on moral crusades against anything men like that happens to make them a bit uncomfortable--but they're also not known by that name very often, instead being referred to simply as "women" in most cases.

Way to prove Fondant's point.

No, sir - a feminist is a woman who believes herself to be the equal to a man. Nothing else. Though I would argue she would be justified in believing herself superior to you.

 

[JaredXE]

No, sir - a feminist is a woman who believes herself to be the equal to a man. Nothing else. Though I would argue she would be justified in believing herself superior to you.

But, you're NOT equal. And no, that is in no way bashing against women, but rather a statement of fact. Do I think men are better than women?

NO!

GOD NO!

Men and women are different. Should they be treated differently in the rights they enjoy in ours or any other country, well of course not. Should there be equal pay for equal work? Absolutely. Is the average woman physically capable of being a firefighter? No. A front-line soldier? Not really. Construction worker? Haven't seen one yet. You are just built differently and therefor different things apply to you, both physically and mentally/emotionally. Would any woman out there like to be compared to a man? Why SHOULD a woman be compared to a man when they simply are not men?

Equal rights under law, equal freedom of speech/expression, equal pay for equal work. When placed before a situation where physical or mental ability is not a valid issue, NO ONE should be viewed differently for whatever reason other than the actions that they take. But don't for an instant believe that men and women are equal, because too much is different between us to ever hold that true.

And to tie that into the thread topic, take a look at abortion. A man is NOT equal to a woman because females are the only ones that can give birth. So of course since they are the ones carrying the little zygote, they are held in more than equal standing to the father. That said, because of their "more than equal status", a man is thrown by the wayside when it comes to HIS life, HIS future, HIS child. Is it wrong for a MAN to ask for a little equality here, or is that just the province of fussy women?


Edit/side note: I am freaking surprised no one has gotten probation or banned because of this thread and I hold it to the maturity of most of the people responding and their understanding that just because someone is in diametrical opposition to their opinion, doesn't mean that they are being bigoted or hateful in any way.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

No, sir - a feminist is a woman who believes herself to be the equal to a man. Nothing else. Though I would argue she would be justified in believing herself superior to you.

But, you're NOT equal. And no, that is in no way bashing against women, but rather a statement of fact. Do I think men are better than women?

NO!

GOD NO!

Men and women are different. Should they be treated differently in the rights they enjoy in ours or any other country, well of course not. Should there be equal pay for equal work? Absolutely. Is the average woman physically capable of being a firefighter? No. A front-line soldier? Not really. Construction worker? Haven't seen one yet. You are just built differently and therefor different things apply to you, both physically and mentally/emotionally. Would any woman out there like to be compared to a man? Why SHOULD a woman be compared to a man when they simply are not men?

Equal rights under law, equal freedom of speech/expression, equal pay for equal work. When placed before a situation where physical or mental ability is not a valid issue, NO ONE should be viewed differently for whatever reason other than the actions that they take. But don't for an instant believe that men and women are equal, because too much is different between us to ever hold that true.

And to tie that into the thread topic, take a look at abortion. A man is NOT equal to a woman because females are the only ones that can give birth. So of course since they are the ones carrying the little zygote, they are held in more than equal standing to the father. That said, because of their "more than equal status", a man is thrown by the wayside when it comes to HIS life, HIS future, HIS child. Is it wrong for a MAN to ask for a little equality here, or is that just the province of fussy women?


Edit/side note: I am freaking surprised no one has gotten probation or banned because of this thread and I hold it to the maturity of most of the people responding and their understanding that just because someone is in diametrical opposition to their opinion, doesn't mean that they are being bigoted or hateful in any way.

Funny, I know three women soldiers - one of whom just earned the rank of sniper. And the reason women dislike working in construction or factory work is that, while the environment is not 'sexist' there is such a quantity of egotesticle masculinity it sort of precludes them from really intergrating into the group.



Let me explain something: The military in no way, shape or form has to take anybody on, at all. Front-line women soldiers exist not because of some AA bullshit, or Political Correctness - they exist because they applied for Infantry, passed Basic and so on to the same standards as their male counterparts and their other training. The reason that no women are in the SAS is because no women have passed SAS selection - literally, there have been no women physically/mentally capable enough to become part of the SAS - the finest special forces in the world. This does not apply to any other branch of the forces.


On the topic - while I feel that allowing a man anything other than a say in the woman's decision (i.e. allowing him to influence her) is too drastic, pray see my first post on this thread for my solution to other social ills surrounding the matter.

 

[PurpleRain]

fem⋅i⋅nism  /ˈfɛməˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fem-uh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
Use feminist in a Sentence
?noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

Last I checked, laws establishing those were already on the books. Why do feminists still plague every corner of discourse, hm?

Do you really think that laws have that much control about how we think in society.

How you think is a personal problem.

But I'll tell you one thing--man, woman, or otherwise, you get farther in this world by being nice rather than belligerent.

Plus not in all countries have females equal to males. So what then?

GO THERE AND COMPLAIN, kthxbai.

Should all us feminists shut up because women can 'technically' have the same advantages as men?

You should all shut up because you're complaining where women are actually treated comparatively well. Again, if you really give a damn about the women in third-world countries, you should go there and start roaring.

You're just a nuisance here, but you might actually make a difference there. You can never know until you try, right?

Also, I can't imagine you'd understand the emotional impact on having an abortion? It is not a fun thing at all

OH YEAH BECAUSE HAVING TO RAISE A CHILD YOU DIDN'T WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE IS A TOTAL PARTY!! WITH CAKE AND EVERYTHING!! HOW DIDNT I KNOW THAT SOONER LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If what you claim to believe is equality, madam, I'd hate to meet a tyrannical feminist.

if you think that someone should go into having sex prepared to have an abortion you must be one sick puppy.

No more than you or she for thinking a man should go into sex prepared to have a child. Like somebody else said, using a condom doesn't mean you're only 97% sure you don't want a kid.

I think the lesson here for both sexes is to think with your brain and not your junk, but that's about as likely as militant feminists laying down their signs, so I won't press the issue.

That said:

ANGRY FEMINISTS:
The '60s happened. You won. Get over it.

Wha?! Ugh.

Firstly, 'Madam'? Where did that come from? You either wanted to insult me somehow I don't fully understand or you don't realize I'm actually a 'sir'.

And how is the fact that people are feminists mean that we have to go across the world to protest. In fact I am so glad to see that the case of the women that could be sentenced to death for wearing jeans is actually gaining a lot of female protest from that country (forgive me but I have lost the name from mind. I believe it was in Saudi Arabia). But even in this country, a judge cannot apparently know right from wrong because she is female and her family is apparently going to be baggage for her.

People like you as well who treat women as utter crap. Use names like tyrannical feminist. Swear words as well. The ones used for males seem less than insulting like dick and wanker, but female insults are so much worse I don't even like to say.

How is it that you can judge an entire sex because of whatever the hell happened to you.

Firstly, I'm not sure which part of history you know, but what happened in the 60's? The Women's suffrage happened in 1893. And if you're thinking of the CEDAW then that happened in the late 70's.

Sorry Ultrajoe, but this sort of stuff shits me right up the wall. I need a fucking punching bag.

 

[jockslap]

I can hopefully end this one right here

Both parties can be attached emotionally to the budding child, therefore both should get a say, HOWEVER, if the father wants to keep the child and the mother doesn't, then the father should have to find another woman willing to accept the embryo so as not to affect the female in the relationship, should the female want to keep the child and the male not, then the female may carry and have the child on her own.

 

[jockslap]

fem⋅i⋅nism  /ˈfɛməˌnɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fem-uh-niz-uhm] Show IPA
Use feminist in a Sentence
?noun 1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

Last I checked, laws establishing those were already on the books. Why do feminists still plague every corner of discourse, hm?

Do you really think that laws have that much control about how we think in society.

How you think is a personal problem.

But I'll tell you one thing--man, woman, or otherwise, you get farther in this world by being nice rather than belligerent.

Plus not in all countries have females equal to males. So what then?

GO THERE AND COMPLAIN, kthxbai.

Should all us feminists shut up because women can 'technically' have the same advantages as men?

You should all shut up because you're complaining where women are actually treated comparatively well. Again, if you really give a damn about the women in third-world countries, you should go there and start roaring.

You're just a nuisance here, but you might actually make a difference there. You can never know until you try, right?

Also, I can't imagine you'd understand the emotional impact on having an abortion? It is not a fun thing at all

OH YEAH BECAUSE HAVING TO RAISE A CHILD YOU DIDN'T WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE IS A TOTAL PARTY!! WITH CAKE AND EVERYTHING!! HOW DIDNT I KNOW THAT SOONER LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If what you claim to believe is equality, madam, I'd hate to meet a tyrannical feminist.

if you think that someone should go into having sex prepared to have an abortion you must be one sick puppy.

No more than you or she for thinking a man should go into sex prepared to have a child. Like somebody else said, using a condom doesn't mean you're only 97% sure you don't want a kid.

I think the lesson here for both sexes is to think with your brain and not your junk, but that's about as likely as militant feminists laying down their signs, so I won't press the issue.

That said:

ANGRY FEMINISTS:
The '60s happened. You won. Get over it.

Wha?! Ugh.

Firstly, 'Madam'? Where did that come from? You either wanted to insult me somehow I don't fully understand or you don't realize I'm actually a 'sir'.

And how is the fact that people are feminists mean that we have to go across the world to protest. In fact I am so glad to see that the case of the women that could be sentenced to death for wearing jeans is actually gaining a lot of female protest from that country (forgive me but I have lost the name from mind. I believe it was in Saudi Arabia). But even in this country, a judge cannot apparently know right from wrong because she is female and her family is apparently going to be baggage for her.

People like you as well who treat women as utter crap. Use names like tyrannical feminist. Swear words as well. The ones used for males seem less than insulting like dick and wanker, but female insults are so much worse I don't even like to say.

How is it that you can judge an entire sex because of whatever the hell happened to you.

Firstly, I'm not sure which part of history you know, but what happened in the 60's? The Women's suffrage happened in 1893. And if you're thinking of the CEDAW then that happened in the late 70's.

Sorry Ultrajoe, but this sort of stuff shits me right up the wall. I need a fucking punching bag.

oh and by the way, Purplerain i do agree with you somewhat, and even more so due to the behaviour of Adrimor, Adrimor you seem to exemplify how NOT to behave.

 

[Raregolddragon]

I am a man and I have to say we should not get a say, why? Here is why the women has to deal with all the hard stuff up till after birth and we don't its her body and her choice.

 

[ZeroMachine]

WHOA.

I'm actually shocked that outright "no" is the minority. I accidentally put "Yes" before I saw case by case, and I was prepared to give a long explanation, but... seems like I don't have to.

Dad's an upstanding citizen, he gets a say. If he's a deadbeat ex-con, it's up to her.

 

[PurpleRain]

oh and by the way, Purplerain i do agree with you somewhat, and even more so due to the behaviour of Adrimor, Adrimor you seem to exemplify how NOT to behave.

I'm glad to see some sanity here.

 

[JaredXE]

Funny, I know three women soldiers - one of whom just earned the rank of sniper. And the reason women dislike working in construction or factory work is that, while the environment is not 'sexist' there is such a quantity of egotesticle masculinity it sort of precludes them from really intergrating into the group.



Let me explain something: The military in no way, shape or form has to take anybody on, at all. Front-line women soldiers exist not because of some AA bullshit, or Political Correctness - they exist because they applied for Infantry, passed Basic and so on to the same standards as their male counterparts and their other training. The reason that no women are in the SAS is because no women have passed SAS selection - literally, there have been no women physically/mentally capable enough to become part of the SAS - the finest special forces in the world. This does not apply to any other branch of the forces.

Funny, when I was entering the Marine Corps, I saw that women recruits had less physical demanding requirements I.E.: Less pull ups(or pull-ups at all, frickin flex-arm hang...), less needed sit-ups and push-ups and they could get more time on the 3 mile.

Then I remember the Presidents Physical Fitness Challenge that american school children have to go through in middle/high school....same thing. Women had lower standards, yadda yadda.

Oh, and as a point of pride....Marine Force Recon is better.