Poll: Abortion- What's your position and why?

[lovetropicana]

My position is that an early fetus is so damn insignificant that it is deserving of no rights or at least that whatever rights they do have are superseded by those of the parents.

Also I believe that in terms of practicality pro-choice has that in spades.

And how significant, in the grand scheme of things, are you?

Far more significant than a fetus at least, hell some of the things I had for lunch are more significant than some of the real early fetuses.

define significant. Do you mean size? impact for humanity? your lunch may have been awesome, but a former-foetus cooked it and has the ability to cook more. Maybe the foetus will grow up to be someone famous, special, or especially talented in an area. Who knows?
That being said, that's not my reason for being pro-life. I'm pretty sure even if I have a brain damaged kid i'd keep him/her, and still manage to love my child
But then, i'm just speaking for myself here

 

[HotShooter]

I don't think a woman who gets herself pregnant for not being careful with her sex life should abort because she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, but if it were rape or something I think there should be the choice. Personally I think the children who are unwanted should be given to the military for their super soldier projects.

 

[Jedoro]

To me, abortion goes against the document that birthed our nation: the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If we deny those unborn children the right of Life, then we go against our very foundation. It doesn't say people have to be born to have that right, it says they get it once they're created.

Of course, I agree that women who are raped should get the choice, but only if they are legitimately raped. Stupid decisions carry consequences. But those three rights shouldn't be taken away from anyone. They can be given up, but should never be taken.

Anywho, that's my two cents.

If you want to talk legal according to the constitution rights don't kick in until you're a citizen, and you have to be born to be a citizen.

I didn't even mention the Constitution, I mentioned a more important document, hence that little spot up there where I mentioned and quoted it.

 

[lovetropicana]

I don't think a woman who gets herself pregnant for not being careful with her sex life should abort because she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, but if it were rape or something I think there should be the choice. Personally I think the children who are unwanted should be given to the military for their super soldier projects.

I was almost nodding a bit until i read the last bit then i pulled a irl D: face
........
What are you, nazi?
(before you think i'm flaming and namecalling, nazi did try to breed supersoldiers ...something to do with chimpanzee and human dna)

 

[lovetropicana]

define significant. Do you mean size? impact for humanity? your lunch may have been awesome, but a former-foetus cooked it and has the ability to cook more. Maybe the foetus will grow up to be someone famous, special, or especially talented in an area. Who knows?
That being said, that's not my reason for being pro-life. I'm pretty sure even if I have a brain damaged kid i'd keep him/her, and still manage to love my child
But then, i'm just speaking for myself here

Gah, but it's not those things! We don't know, you're making assumptions! If I didn't want a kid, I would abort him, he has no say in the matter, he cannot think, he doesn't matter! Whereas you, can argue on behalf of those who can't argue, but why? They don't care! They can't think!

God I really wish I didn't drag myself into this. I'm going to bed.

Um, because we were all once foetuses? I'd like people to at least have a chance to live...
and also if there were stricter consequences maybe people would think twice before getting pregnant?
...well, fat chance with that, but meh

hay...goodnight!~

 

[HotShooter]

I don't think a woman who gets herself pregnant for not being careful with her sex life should abort because she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, but if it were rape or something I think there should be the choice. Personally I think the children who are unwanted should be given to the military for their super soldier projects.

I was almost nodding a bit until i read the last bit then i pulled a irl D: face
........
What are you, nazi?
(before you think i'm flaming and namecalling, nazi did try to breed supersoldiers ...something to do with chimpanzee and human dna)

I'm not a nazi ( not till the induction ceremony anyway) and atleast it gives more of a reason for raising a previously unwanted child. Besides, if there were super soldiers on the battlefield wars would be a hell of a lot more interesting.

 

[lostclause]

It is true that all life is built up from the same 4 A's T's C's and G's. That's about as far as the similarities go. In the case of human DNA, the vast majority of the nucleotides are responsible for creating the "skeleton" of what a human is. Of course, I'm not meaning a literal skeleton. I mean the base things that make humans distinct from all other animals. Only a small portion of our DNA is used to determine individual characteristics. What I'm trying to say is that all human DNA is incredibly similar to one another; DNA from one person to the next only varies in a few spots.

Firstly I have to ask what you mean by making a human unique. Anything we have can be found elsewhere, opposible thumbs, higher brain functions (anyone remember Alex the parrot? As smart as a small child), use of tools. Again, our dna is less than 1% different from apes, getting more and more similar down the neanderthals. Where do we draw the line for humanity? Frankly, dna doesn't strike me as the best way to do it.

We are very unique. Saying that we aren't because we all have the same 4 nucleotides as a deer is like saying we aren't unique because all life is carbon-based.

As a matter of fact, DNA is the neatest, and dare I say, the best way of defining what a human is (at least in the physical sense). If not, the most foolproof method.

Slight misunderstanding there, the deer was an example of the same number of chromosomes, not nucleotides. It was a demonstration of how such a thing does not make a man. It wasn't meant as anythign but an example.
Dna is far from neat, downs syndrome complicates it (extra partial chromosome, super or sub human? Or neither?), mutations even further. Parasitic twins make it even worse. Are identical twins one person? I doubt there is any neat way to define a human, either intelligence or dna.

 

[Ultrajoe]

To pose a rebuttal to a person in a temporarily non-moderator status, she gave up those rights when she chose to become pregnant. If she is simply allowed to toss her mistake into the closet, she has taken that right from her new child, whereas no one took the right from her.

Taking her right to choose is always taking her rights, no matter what you justify it as. As far as the child goes, the blossoming proteins in her womb are a part of her body. If we want to discuss the rights of the unborn, we need to realize that what you are advocating for is the potential child, what it might become and what rights it might have.

And that's an argument that I don't have the time to pursue.

Although I will note the comment 'chose to become pregnant'. An honest question here, how many pregancies do you believe to be fully intentional and expected?

For a short while, she may be denied the three, but if she gives it up for adoption then she can have all three back again
While if she aborts it, the child can never taste life, liberty or happiness

Look, I don't want this to become a slugging match, but to imply pregancy is something a mother can just do and then move on/forget is preposterous. There are hormonal, emotional, physical and mental repurcussions for pregnancy that can stay with her for the rest of her life. Whereas this 'child' has no more of a chance now than it did if she had never gotten pregnant.

 

[cowbell40]

Far more significant than a fetus at least, hell some of the things I had for lunch are more significant than some of the real early fetuses.

How can you judge the significance of something that does not get the chance to reach its full potential? How do you know that fetus won't grow up to do something that tremendously advances mankind? Who knows how "significant" that being will be to its loved ones? You can't judge it as it is. Just because it isn't "significant", or maybe I should say useful, right at that moment doesn't mean you can write it off as expendable.

It seems that the prevailing attitude today is that "if something inconveniences me, doesn't benefit me, or isn't useful to me, we are better off without it". It's the id working at full tilt.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

The law, I don't know. I don't think that people should smoke, but I don't think there should be a law against it. However, that to me is more of a self-destructive behavior (yeah, yeah, second-hand kills worse, I know, I know, kind-of a side point). In the case of abortion, to me, there is another person involved directly.

When it comes to an unborn child... I'm going to go with the "pro-life"ers. It is a matter of personal responsibility. If you don't want to get fat, don't eat at McDonalds 24/7, or if you do, know that you have to work out more, and eat more nutritious things as well. If you don't want a baby, don't have sex, or know that you need to take extra precautions that may or may not work and accept that. A world without consequence is a dangerous place.

As for an unborn child being alive, and having rights, that really needs to be defined. If it doesn't have rights in the case of abortion, it then shouldn't have rights in assualt and murder. i.e. killing a pregnant woman not double-homicide. i.e. if you punch a pregnant woman and the baby dies, only counts assault on the pregnant woman as the baby had no rights until it was born. Wanted or unwanted is irrelevant. I wouldn't want it that way, but I think that'd be the correct way to deny unborn children's rights consistently.

Rather, I do believe that they are alive and have rights, straight from conception. So I would rather a law against abortion. As for rape (incest or otherwise), isn't the unborn child technically innocent and a "victim" as well? Why not have an option remove the obligation and financial repsonsibility of the mother? Have the father (or state) take care of the maternity costs and adoption? Why is the knee-jerk reaction always "smash it with a rock!"? I know, that's not actually what happens, it's a turn of phrase.

However, this is something that I don't see as being within the jurisdiction of any government. There are a lot of laws that I don't agree with, there are a lot of laws that I agree with that others disagree with, so you take what you can get and advocate what you want while respecting what is established.

 

[lovetropicana]

I don't think a woman who gets herself pregnant for not being careful with her sex life should abort because she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, but if it were rape or something I think there should be the choice. Personally I think the children who are unwanted should be given to the military for their super soldier projects.

I was almost nodding a bit until i read the last bit then i pulled a irl D: face
........
What are you, nazi?
(before you think i'm flaming and namecalling, nazi did try to breed supersoldiers ...something to do with chimpanzee and human dna)

I'm not a nazi ( not till the induction ceremony anyway) and atleast it gives more of a reason for raising a previously unwanted child. Besides, if there were super soldiers on the battlefield wars would be a hell of a lot more interesting.

I think you've watched too much TV/movies :S
still, if you train your kid in weapons and the art of war and how to fight...
well either they grow close to you and will be your super-bodyguard or will grow to resent you and kill you in your sleep
...tread lightly, your kids will be awesome

 

[Emilin_Rose]

My opinion is that anyone who tells a woman she can't kill an unborn fetus should be willing, FEMALE OR MALE, to have that fetus implanted in their own stomach, and no legal ties to the mother who didn't want it.

If you aren't willing to do that, then you don't want the pregnancy or fetus, and in fact WON'T have the child, then you are well outstepping your right to tell her she has to have it whether she wants it or not.

Then again my view may be clouded by my aunt being raped.

 

[lovetropicana]

Look, I don't want this to become a slugging match, but to imply pregancy is something a mother can just do and then move on/forget is preposterous. There are hormonal, emotional, physical and mental repurcussions for pregnancy that can stay with her for the rest of her life. Whereas this 'child' has no more of a chance now than it did if she had never gotten pregnant.

abortions also cause hormonal, emotional, physical and mental repurcussions
Seriously. no slugs intended.

 

[gamer416]

it should be legal while the kid is still in some what of a cell phase, after that it should be illegal.

 

[hippo24]

Well I was going to argue,
but if the ratio is 1 to 7 against my stance,
I deem talking to a wall as a more productive outlet for my time.

But I will leave you with two dramatized questions:

If I were to force you/your wife to have a miscarriage a week before the expected birth, or if I was a doctor, and because of my negligence your child was killed in labor.
Would you be unhappy with me, or could you and I meet for lunch the next day and still be friends if I apologized?

Also wasn't the "choice" to make a baby made the moment you gave your partner consent, not after the fact?
Unless,
of course,
Ive been deceived that the outcome of unprotected sexual intercourse is usually a baby.

 

[HotShooter]

I don't think a woman who gets herself pregnant for not being careful with her sex life should abort because she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions, but if it were rape or something I think there should be the choice. Personally I think the children who are unwanted should be given to the military for their super soldier projects.

I was almost nodding a bit until i read the last bit then i pulled a irl D: face
........
What are you, nazi?
(before you think i'm flaming and namecalling, nazi did try to breed supersoldiers ...something to do with chimpanzee and human dna)

I'm not a nazi ( not till the induction ceremony anyway) and atleast it gives more of a reason for raising a previously unwanted child. Besides, if there were super soldiers on the battlefield wars would be a hell of a lot more interesting.

I think you've watched too much TV/movies :S
still, if you train your kid in weapons and the art of war and how to fight...
well either they grow close to you and will be your super-bodyguard or will grow to resent you and kill you in your sleep
...tread lightly, your kids will be awesome

Yes, they will be, and it still beats normal parenting, y'know, showing love, helping them become future good semaritans, changing diapers. And that description you gave actually sounds alot like how my dad raised me. Guess which outcome I chose.