Poll: Abortion- What's your position and why?

[Ninja_X]

If people cannot learn to use some fucking birth controle they wouldn't need abortions.

You should not be having sex in the first place if you are not ready for the consequences, if you cannot support a baby don't be having sex.

It is murder and should be illegal.

 

[ValentineMocker]

Personally I don't believe in abortion after the heart starts beating

Because a beating heart is important, how? We slaughter things with beating hearts all the time, and feel no regret.

I'm a woman and I do often wonder what gives woman the supreme right over a soon to be baby that they only half created. Just because the father doesn't have the option or privilage to carry a baby for nine months internally doesn't mean he should be left out of the loop entirely.

Notifying the father? Sure. However, there are TWO parents. In the case of a tie, who are you going to default to: the mother, or the father?

The last thing I'll say on the subject: I believe a lot of our problems would be solved if we considered the heartbeat the start of life. We measure life and death by the heart outside of the womb, so why mince things inside?

Why not consider brain activity the start of life? Brain activity is far more important than a beating heart.

 

[AvsJoe]

Like many people here, I am Pro-Choice. I guess that means I am anti-life, but I'd rather be anti-life than anti-choice. It's like saying "they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM".

 

[Amoreyna]

Abortion is for sick bastards that make money out of murder. Its disgusting how many people support it blindly because they see it as a right. Nobody has the right to tell someone should die because of his/her own mistake. Only time I support is if the baby has a retardation/birth defect.

This is an interesting point. People talk about how much they respect life, but if they found out their baby was going to be born retarded, most of them (including me) would want an abortion.

This depresses me greatly, because my pro-life parents found out that their little girl was going to have "problems"... and they had her anyway. She's retarded and has more problems then I care to count... and she's the most wonderful person to talk to, she is extremely helpful around the house, and is overall "the perfect child".

And people think she's unfit to live and have told my parents so.

God, that's awful. People who don't think before they talk and have no sense of empathy should be the population we start thining first. My aunt was told that her second baby was going to be mentally challenged at that it would be wise to abort. She refused, and he was born just fine. This was only five years ago and I can only hope technology has gotten better or we still have a lot of women aborting perfectly healthy babies.

I don't understand why any handicap should make a parent immeditately decide to abort. Of course I'm probably biased, my mother has ceberal palsy - her left leg is shorter then her right and she struggles with spastic muscles but mentally she is very, very smart. Her mother was also told she was unfit to live. People are just fucking stupid at times.

 

[dukethepcdr]

My position on abortion is really simple. It is murder. There is no good reason to kill a baby. None of the arguements in favor of abortion hold water.

The 'mother's right to choose what to do with her body' arguement is flawed. It's not the woman who is being killed, it's the BABY. What about the baby's rights? I doubt any unborn babies are wanting to commit assisted suicide.

The 'abortion should be allowed in the case of rape' arguement is also flawed. It's not the baby who is at fault here. If anyone deserves to die, it's the man who raped the woman and got her pregnant. The baby didn't do anything.

The 'babies who might be born with some birth defect' arguement is a very slippery slope towards the kind of society where only the 'desireable' people get to live and everyone else is expendable. A guy named Adolf Hitler tried that once and it didn't go too well.

The 'they'll do it illegally anyway if we don't allow it' arguement is easily shot full of holes. All you have to do is think of any other thing that is against the law and think about what the world would be like if it was legal for that same reason. Should we make stealing legal since some people do it anyway? Wouldn't you want justice if someone stole all your games and consoles? Would you even set foot outside your heavily defended home if they made murder of people who are already born legal?

The 'laws against abortion are theocracy and the government shouldn't impose any moral standards on anyone' arguement is also stupid. No matter what the evolutionists say, humans are not mere animals. We have emotions, dreams and eternal souls that animals don't have. There have been societies in which people sacrificed babies on altars of different gods in the past like the Aztecs, Mayans and Canaanites. All of those societies died out and only ruins remain. Many things contributed to their downfalls, but I'm sure shedding the innocent blood of babies didn't help them out much. Our 'modern' society is guilty of the same crime now that we have legalized abortion in so many countries. We may not cut the baby out of the womb on a stone altar to Ba'al, but we do sacrifice these babies to the modern day gods of lust, greed and selfishness.

Let me put it this way, if you knew someone was going to go back in time, find your mother when she was pregnant with you and have you aborted, would you stop them? Is there anyone in your life (relative, friend, coworker, gaming buddy etc) who you would miss terribly if they were suddenly no longer alive? Everyone you've ever met and everyone you have only heard of as well as all those you've never even heard of (including the abortion 'rights' activists)were once unborn babies who weren't aborted.

How much more obvious can I make it that abortion never should be legal?

 

[LogicNProportion]

My friend and I developed a system that worked well with abortion. It's called the consistency meter.

You get three strikes. (Keep in mind that this is being over simplified)

1 for the rape/ignorance
2 for the one crazy night/accident
3. 3 is the scientific and logical number that signifies consistency within a trial and or experiment, when set under the usual setting or variables. When it's getting consistent, and you're still getting knocked up. Guess what? Unless you were raped or can prove you can't take care of the child properly, you're having it.

Have a nice life loose-lips. =P

 

[Seanchaidh]

My friend and I developed a system that worked well with abortion. It's called the consistency meter.

You get three strikes. (Keep in mind that this is being over simplified)

1 for the rape/ignorance
2 for the one crazy night/accident
3. 3 is the scientific and logical number that signifies consistency within a trial and or experiment, when set under the usual setting or variables. When it's getting consistent, and you're still getting knocked up. Guess what? Unless you were raped or can prove you can't take care of the child properly, you're having it.

Have a nice life loose-lips. =P

How arbitrary.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Abortion is for sick bastards that make money out of murder. Its disgusting how many people support it blindly because they see it as a right. Nobody has the right to tell someone should die because of his/her own mistake. Only time I support is if the baby has a retardation/birth defect.

This is an interesting point. People talk about how much they respect life, but if they found out their baby was going to be born retarded, most of them (including me) would want an abortion.

This depresses me greatly, because my pro-life parents found out that their little girl was going to have "problems"... and they had her anyway. She's retarded and has more problems then I care to count... and she's the most wonderful person to talk to, she is extremely helpful around the house, and is overall "the perfect child".

And people think she's unfit to live and have told my parents so.

God, that's awful. People who don't think before they talk and have no sense of empathy should be the population we start thining first. My aunt was told that her second baby was going to be mentally challenged at that it would be wise to abort. She refused, and he was born just fine. This was only five years ago and I can only hope technology has gotten better or we still have a lot of women aborting perfectly healthy babies.

I don't understand why any handicap should make a parent immeditately decide to abort. Of course I'm probably biased, my mother has ceberal palsy - her left leg is shorter then her right and she struggles with spastic muscles but mentally she is very, very smart. Her mother was also told she was unfit to live. People are just fucking stupid at times.

Why have the child when you could have another one awhile later that (probably) wouldn't have such severe problems? It won't be the same, but it will be very similar, and there is no way of knowing if it would've been better or worse as far as any of the other traits. Why give someone a lifetime of pain or deformity when you could... you know... not do that?

 

[Seanchaidh]

The 'laws against abortion are theocracy and the government shouldn't impose any moral standards on anyone' arguement is also stupid. No matter what the evolutionists say, humans are not mere animals. We have emotions, dreams and eternal souls

Eternal souls? Prove it.

 

[ValentineMocker]

The 'they'll do it illegally anyway if we don't allow it' arguement is easily shot full of holes. All you have to do is think of any other thing that is against the law and think about what the world would be like if it was legal for that same reason. Should we make stealing legal since some people do it anyway? Wouldn't you want justice if someone stole all your games and consoles?

Prostitution and drugs are other crimes which have been legalized in other countries based on the idea that it's better to legalize said behavior and regulate it rather than have it be illegal and unregulated. That the behavior in question (drugs, prostitution, and also abortion) is not sufficiently unethical to warrant it's illegalization and the consequent problems that that brings. It is also illegal to shoot fleeing thieves in the back, even if they broke into your home. That's not legalizing theft, but it is affording them legal protection, because theft doesn't deserve the death penalty.

eternal souls that animals don't have.

Hahaha.

Many things contributed to their downfalls, but I'm sure shedding the innocent blood of babies didn't help them out much.

Infanticide is common in many human cultures. Romans often let unwanted babies die of exposure. And please don't pull the "Rome eventually fell" card. The Western Roman Empire existed for 700+ years, and the Eastern Roman Empire lasted something like 1300+ years. Carthage, the other great Mediterranean power (until Rome wiped it out after the 3rd Punic War), was also thought by many to have killed innocent children in sacrifices, though there's some disagreement there.

 

[Agema]

Let me put it this way, if you knew someone was going to go back in time, find your mother when she was pregnant with you and have you aborted, would you stop them? Is there anyone in your life (relative, friend, coworker, gaming buddy etc) who you would miss terribly if they were suddenly no longer alive? Everyone you've ever met and everyone you have only heard of as well as all those you've never even heard of (including the abortion 'rights' activists)were once unborn babies who weren't aborted.

Really, that argument cuts both ways.

For all I know, I didn't have some bully at school make my life a living hell because he was aborted, or I wouldn't have met some great friends because the job they got was taken by a total arsehole who was aborted, etc.

Life and history is about what is, not what ifs.

 

[xxcloud417xx]

Some people seem to have measured humanity in terms of DNA and other physical evidence, and saying that we cannot define "human" simply with DNA. Okay then, don't. I define humanity with conscience, if the fetus is not a conscious being, then it is not a fully living being. Rights don't apply to unliving entities.

 

[randomrob]

pro-choice, nuff-said

 

[amazosaur]

An abortion is not a bad thing, the woman could be in any of numerous circumstances that make it hard to deal with the child, keep it alive after birth, or give it someone in which case an abortion could keep the woman out of the poor house.

Also, we as a species are over populated. HUGELY so. If everyone had babies, we would run out of space and resources.

Holy Christ. Who are you, Thomas Malthus?

Anyway, personal choice is all well and good (I'm a libertarian and therefore very pro individual freedom) but a fetus is not the woman's body. As soon as that zygote is formed and the cells start to divide, that's a completely different entity. And saying that we get to decide whether or not it lives or dies is an extremely arrogant view.
If you were raped or something, then I'm sorry but we don't get to decide who lives or dies for our convenience

 

[The Dr0w Ranger]

I have a couple thoughts.
I am predominantly pro-life, I believe once the Egg and Sperm meet the formation of a human begins, and that after that you are essentially hitting the "cancel" button on a life.
Blocking that formation preemptively is fine, but once it starts you are dealing with a life.
I believe that, much like a hostage situation, if the woman is in trouble, a choice must be made, life for life.

Notice I didn't say a life is formed.
Scientifically a fetus may or may not qualify as a Life(I believe it is, but I'm no PH.D)
I said the formation of a life has begun, and I don't think any woman has the right to cancel that on the basis of inconvenience, inability to support it or emotional pain, as aforementioned, a life for life(forming) situation is different.
If you fucked up, deal with it and put the kid up for adoption, your pregnancy should convince you that it's a good idea to be careful.
If you got raped, I'm very sorry, but should a life be canceled because the other parent was bad? Have the kid and give him up.

Overpopulation?
Okay, that may be true(despite the whole "worlds population could fit in texas with room to spare" thing).
We can't support more people, but I would agree with Borrowed Time, if you think it's that desperate go kill yourself, don't volunteer someone else to not live.

For solutions I am stumped, if you make it illegal, all the ones that happen will be dangerous, but if you legalize it, you make it legal(DUH!).
I would think that making it go black market would significantly reduce it considering the risks.

I am a Christian and as such I believe life is sacred, but that's not so different from a secular moral view that everyone has the right to live.

Now for the idea about the death penalty.
If you are an adult and you have decided that you wanted to do terrible things, you chose to put yourself counter to the law, you risked the penalty, I have no compassion for you.
How many fetuses have killed people, or blown up a building?
Hardly a fair comparison...

 

[Ironic]

If it was never born, it was never alive.

The first cell is technically "alive", and so I have to choose the second option. It is a very hard topic to discuss, as there are so many relative-viewpoints. I would say im more pro-choice than pro-life, but its annoying to see that in places like somalia, abortion is the no.1 contraceptive, due to lack of condoms and such. I'm firmly on the stance that you should AVOID getting to the stage where an abortion is required at all costs, but after that, it's the mother's personal choice.

 

[Qizma]

Is masturbation murder? Is not getting impregnated every chance possible murder? There's possible life everywhere.

Although I don't support aborting children just because they might be born with deformations / sicknesses or such, unless it would kill the baby fast anyway or make the life continuing agony and suffering.

edit; tried to clarify the second paragraph.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Holy Christ. Who are you, Thomas Malthus?

Anyway, personal choice is all well and good (I'm a libertarian and therefore very pro individual freedom) but a fetus is not the woman's body. As soon as that zygote is formed and the cells start to divide, that's a completely different entity. And saying that we get to decide whether or not it lives or dies is an extremely arrogant view.
If you were raped or something, then I'm sorry but we don't get to decide who lives or dies for our convenience

You're being too doctrinaire and definitional. Take a look at what it is independent of the mere labels you can apply to it. If you didn't know what sort of DNA it had, would you think twice about the morality of killing it? No, not unless you also had problems with killing flies or mosquitoes. It is not the sort of thing which needs legal protection and it is not arrogant to presume that the personal autonomy of any living woman trumps whatever interests we suppose the zygote would have. It is not yet to the stage where we should care about it or think of it as a person.

 

[kawligia]

The only way it could be wrong is if the fetus is alive.

So when does life start? Nobody knows and probably nobody will ever know. BUT, we aren't entirely sure when someone dies either. We usually say that a person stops living when the heart stops beating...so I say a person STARTS living when the heart STARTS beating.

 

[mokes310]

Pro Choice, not my body, not my decision.