Poll: Abortions in today's society: your views

[binvjoh]

I think a woman should be able to get an abortion right up until the baby is born.

Then again, I'm 16 and have no intention of ever having kids, so maybe I just haven't developed an understanding of the issue yet.

 

[DaMullet]

Is abortion murder? Yes, its a living, growing being with 100% Human DNA.
Does that mean we should take away choice? No.

As sick as this sounds, sometimes death is better then life. Forcing a raped woman to have her rapist's child so that she can see his face in her baby for the rest of her life is just sick. Look at the mortaility rate the US for infants, its horrible! Why force a woman to keep her child that she can't afford so that she can watch it slowly die when it gets sick because she doesn't have the money to get it the help it needs?

To the OP;
If you're seriously determinded not to have a kid right now, cut your balls off. By that I mean a vasectomy. They can always go back, get sperm and use artificial insemination to make a baby. Or better yet, adopt! Not only do you get a family but you help out someone else who's life is crashing down around them because they don't want to murder their own child, but they know they can't be there for them.

That's just my thoughts, take them as you will.

 

[EinTheCorgi]

Simple if you dont want a baby at the moment...dont have sex at the moment best way and every one wins, you, your lass and your child which wont have ever existed in anyway shape or form. Our society bases way to much on sex making every pressured to have it sooner and more frequently in order to keep the "spark of love" alive. Though if that was true and a relationship is 60%sex 15% attraction and 25% love then i doubt that any man/woman would risk there own life to save there mate...But anyway on topic i think abortions bull shit. You had sex knowing the risks and if you have a kid you should have to face the truth...you cant do that if you kill someone or steal something you have to take the punishment whether it be jail a fine or a child.

 

[spartandude]

i believe abortion is wrong, but i also don't feel it should be illegal. but more to the point of your question, no, i don't feel men should have much say at all in the decision-making process. it's the woman's body. if we're gonna screw 'em, we gotta live with the consequences.

i mostly agree, but men should still have some say (with women having the ultimate say) because while it is possible for me to walk away (we shouldnt btw) it does effect us men just as much as it effects women, sure they carry the child but if we are expected to raise it then we should be able to voice our opinions

 

[zombays]

Look, it should be a law to have a brain if you're thinking of taking abortions. But sadly, that is something that the average American lacks. (Fuckin' shitty part of capitalism) I'm not gonna answer the poll though.

 

[C95J]

Abortion is completely the parents choice, and no one should try to tell them otherwise.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

My point is, abortions take away potential life and the only reason you present as to why you'd want to abort is that you're afraid it will strain your relationship. That is selfish (not evil mind you). Abortion is the easy way out... FOR YOU! It is by no means easy on your partner as it goes beyond grief for her (which even you may be struck by).

Adotpion isn't easy I'm sure. Current trends suggest it's difficult to put up for adoption as there are fewer and fewer people adopting (considering there are higher rates of infertility, I find this odd).

If your partner wants to keep it then all you can do is stick with it or bail. If you want to want to stay but are sure it will tear you apart, then consider adoption.

You should talk to a professional (multiple would be better) if your concerned. You won't find an answer here. Just opinions (which is what you asked for).

I think this comment was aimed at me, am I right? Yes, that is a reason why I would want to end a pregnancy. There are other reasons as well: I'm not ready to be a parent and don't think I could give the child everything it deserves at this point. Also, my ambitions and direction in life would have to be abandoned. These are not small sacrifices.

However, I don't view any of this as being in the least bit selfish. The reason that it isn't selfish in my eyes is that something that doesn't exist can't have any rights, regardless of whether it may (or may not) exist in the future. I'm not putting myself before my baby because my baby doesn't exist. All I'm doing is ensuring it doesn't exist.

But yes, if I were to force my partner to terminate a child that would be selfish. I value her equally as (if not more so than) myself, so if she said she couldn't handle the grief of terminating the pregnancy I would go through with it and support her and all that stuff, regardless of what it was doing to my life.

And as much as adoption sounds appealling to you, to me that would be worse than any other option. If I were to have a child I would then feel responsibility (and love!) for it. I wouldn't want to abandon it to our country's dire child adoption system. Because of this, aortion is a much more attractive prospect in my eyes

Again, I can only suggest you ask professionals. I'm only giving an opinion. You're the one who is looking for opinions. I see it as selfish as it is for your own benefit. As much as you think you are doing it for your "relationship" that is not so. We as humans, are all selfish and find excuses to say otherwise.

Where are you from btw (country?). What's so bad about you're system?

 

[TehCookie]

One thing I don't get about pro-choice people, why can't they understand some people do not want to take care of a kid? Isn't it better to abort so a child doesn't have to grow up in a family where everyone hates it? Even if you say "Just put it up for adoption." if the mother doesn't want to care for herself and the parasite when pregnant chances are it won't be born healthy.

 

[General BrEeZy]

getting an abortion is like suicide: it's the weak way out. you shoulda been more careful. stick it out, go for adoption or woMAN up. thats just me, doesnt mean i'm right or anyone else is wrong, thats just how i see it.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Abortion is little more than the removal of unwanted organic matter that mostly likely would not survive outside the womb, IMO its the same as clipping hair or nails, least kills the pregnant person(which should automatically be treated as an extra homicide) or causes enough harm to force a miscarriage(double up on the assault charge,even without it being miscarried.)

 

[Nimcha]

Bah, I wanted to answer to a few posts here but they just make me angry, so I won't.

I will say this though, I do hope couples talk about this stuff. It's important to know each other's viewpoints on this.

 

[DaMullet]

Simple if you dont want a baby at the moment...dont have sex at the moment best way and every one wins, you, your lass and your child which wont have ever existed in anyway shape or form. Our society bases way to much on sex making every pressured to have it sooner and more frequently in order to keep the "spark of love" alive. Though if that was true and a relationship is 60%sex 15% attraction and 25% love then i doubt that any man/woman would risk there own life to save there mate...But anyway on topic i think abortions bull shit. You had sex knowing the risks and if you have a kid you should have to face the truth...you cant do that if you kill someone or steal something you have to take the punishment whether it be jail a fine or a child.

Not having sex is also a great answer. If sex is the only thing you know how to do in the bedroom to keep the spark alive... well, there's a word for people like that, its 'vanilla'... look it up!

 

[spartandude]

getting an abortion is like suicide: it's the weak way out. you shoulda been more careful. stick it out, go for adoption or woMAN up. thats just me, doesnt mean i'm right or anyone else is wrong, thats just how i see it.

"shoulda been more careful" shows you didnt read the original post, he was saying that a large number of women on the implant still get pregnant and was merely concerned that his girlfriend who was also on the implant (them being careful) migt get pregnant.

 

[Gigano]

Free abortion (within the first 12 weeks) is widely accepted and pretty much uncontroversial around these parts, and to the extent it's discussed (mostly whether it should be raised to 18 weeks before having to go through any application process) it's considered a social and medical issue, not an ethical one save by a few extremist Christians whom we've thankfully evolved enough as a society to ignore.

Personally, I support the right of a person to choose what to do with a fetus. Digging up an acorn is hardly the same as felling an oak.

When abortion is legally an option and the medical/medicinal procedure still completely safe, I believe the man should have an equal say in regard to the mutually created fetus. Both parties consented to unprotected sex (or at least the risk which brought on the situation), so neither should be able to force financial obligations upon the other. While the man obviously shouldn't be able to force on the abortion, he should not be forced to pay child support when pregnancy was discovered at a time where abortion was still a valid and safe option the other party did not wish to utilize.

 

[Estelindis]

What if giving birth is the problem, or stages in the pregnancy are causing concern for the mother's health?

Whenever an operation's aim is to save the life of the mother, it is not an abortion, even if a necessary step in the operation is ending the child's life. This is because ending the child's life is not the aim of the operation: if the mother's life could have been saved in some other way, then that way would be chosen instead. An operation is only an abortion when the overriding aim is to kill the child. None of the examples you mention actually fall into that category.

What if the mother is raped?

For me, this is the most difficult case and the only one where I feel there is any uncertainty. Because the mother did not choose to conceive the child, but was forced, this clearly falls outside the bounds of the situations we were discussing before. It is not about facing up to the consequences of her actions here at all... At the same time, the child still did not choose to be conceived and is still innocent. How can we justify punishing one person for the crime of another? In no other legal situation does anyone see this as fair. Does killing the child make things better, or does it compound the crime? The rape has been carried out. If we could go back in time and prevent it, we would - but we can't. We have to deal with the situation in which we find ourselves. I think the best way to deal with this is to provide the mother with all possible care and counselling, to try to heal the wounds caused by the rape in every way that we can. If she chooses to give up the child rather than keep it, and never wants to see or hear or it again, I believe she is well within her rights, and the state should do all that it can to care for that child. I just don't see how killing the child actually helps the mother.

What if the baby is likely to be still born?

And yet there have been situations where parents were advised to get abortions on the grounds of likely stillbirth and yet the mothers gave birth to healthy children.

There's a video of a man on YouTube who had that exact situation, and had to go to an abortion clinic whilst two crokey old women were standing outside screaming. So he went out, challenged them, and they left because they couldn't answer any of his questions.

If they couldn't answer his questions, they were right to leave. None of us should be ignorant on this extremely important matter.

What if the child is likely to be born with severe disabilities? Then you have to consider the child's well-being psychologically, the amount of pain it's going to have to endure, it's life-span and general quality of life, as well as whether or not the parents are going to be able (financially or otherwise) to support it.

My father is a retired nurse of the handicapped. Although he is now nearly eighty years old, he still goes to his former workplace each week to help them out because he sees the immense value of the people, both mentally and physically disabled, who live there. Having grown up alongside many of his clients, I see their value too. Letting these people live gives them the chance to live out their potential, whatever that might be - however different it is to our potential. And, believe me, I know how emotionally and financially draining it can be to care for them! It remains the responsibility of any just society - if the parents of these people who need far more care than average are left on their own without any help from the rest of us, then our society is fundamentally unjust and we are the ones who need to change.

In terms of them having to endure massive physical suffering, we must treat this problem in the same way as we do for those who are already born: try to relieve suffering in every way possible, even if, in some cases, the anti-pain treatment can lead to diminished life expectancy. (That's just a side-effect and not the aim: the aim is to relieve pain, and, as before, we would achieve it without the side-effect if we could.) While this issue is important, its importance lies not just in the context of abortion and it does deserve a full and proper treatment rather than the brief skim I'm giving it here. (But that would be off-topic.)

I'm not saying that abortion is 100% the definitive answer to any of these things

Good. I am glad.

but ruling it out of such situations is stupid, dumb, idiotic, and every other word you can think of for it.

Really? Even though I give my reasons for choosing not to do it in each case very clearly? Are those the only words you can really use to describe me? You are free to use them, of course, as I said before, but I would hope you can find some other ones. For my part, I feel no need to use such words towards you simply because you have another view. I respect your integrity for backing up your opinion, even if I disagree on the particulars. Debates like these are essential.

The irony of the "pro"-life movement is that they don't seem to care about the ones considered to actually be alive.

You can say that about people from either viewpoint, unfortunately. Those who falsely view abortion as some kind of cure-all don't engage with the damage it can do to those left behind - not that I am saying you are this kind of person (just as I hope you do not claim I don't care for the born just because I want to protect the unborn).

 

[Woodsey]

First off: if anyone categorically states that abortion is bad no matter the reason, they can be categorically classified as an idiot.

I don't know if there's any on the Escapist, but there are people like that.

Well, you may categorically classify me as an idiot if you like, but kindly allow me to draw your attention to an important distinction.

An abortion is defined as an operation intended to end the life of the unborn child (or whatever you may wish to call the developing infant if this term does not please you). It is not an operation intended to save the life of the mother.

How can I say this with such confidence? Consider the following case. A pregnant woman is suffering from cancer of the womb. She will need an operation in order to survive, and as a consequence of this operation her unborn child will die. This is not an abortion, because its intention is to save her life. If, somehow, the child could be saved at the same time (even though, in fact, medical opinion is fairly clear that it can't be), then the operation would be seen not as a failure but as even more of a success. It saved two lives instead of one. In the case of an abortion, though, it would be seen as a failure if the child somehow survived, not as a success: because its aim was to end the life of the child. It failed to end a life that it was supposed to end.

Taking this definition of abortion, do you still feel the same way about anyone who categorically states that abortion is wrong?

Yes.

What if giving birth is the problem, or stages in the pregnancy are causing concern for the mother's health? An abortion may be recommended, and saying in that case that it's definitely wrong to take that option is definitely idiocy - if there is another option then I'd prefer that to be taken, but if an abortion is the best way then the importance of the two people is ranked as follows:

Mother > Baby

What if the mother is raped? Again, the mother's health takes precedent. People shouldn't be forced to give birth and then suffer severe psychological trauma.

What if the baby is likely to be still born? Again, psychological trauma (of both parents). There's a video of a man on YouTube who had that exact situation, and had to go to an abortion clinic whilst two crokey old women were standing outside screaming. So he went out, challenged them, and they left because they couldn't answer any of his questions.

Spoiler

What if the child is likely to be born with severe disabilities? Then you have to consider the child's well-being psychologically, the amount of pain it's going to have to endure, it's life-span and general quality of life, as well as whether or not the parents are going to be able (financially or otherwise) to support it.

I'm not saying that abortion is 100% the definitive answer to any of these things, but ruling it out of such situations is stupid, dumb, idiotic, and every other word you can think of for it.

The irony of the "pro"-life movement is that they don't seem to care about the ones considered to actually be alive.

What if the child was born perfectly fine, grew up healthy, hit his teenage years and killed himself in any number of ways for any number of reasons?

What if they had the child, it got sick a few months later and died?

What if they had a child, it grew up and became a junkie or alcoholic?

What if they had a child, it grew up and got into an accident and became paralyzed for life?

There are risks to parenthood. That's it. No matter whether you wanted it or not.

The only point I'll give you is if the mother was raped. They are different circumstances entirely.

My examples are based around cases in which the outcome would be considered highly probable, yours are lifestyle choices and randomness - my argument stands.

 

[Jonci]

For women: Her choice.
For men: wrap it up or put it away if you can't afford a kid.

 

[JaredXE]

Well, first of all my opinion doesn't matter because I have a penis.

But, if my opinion DID matter, then not only would abortions be legal, but mandatory to anybody who is pregnant and fits a certain criteria: convicted on a violent drug charge, convicted of at least two felonies (the first one's free!), on Welfare or other government subsidy, and finally permanent sterilization to anybody who watches the Jersey Shore.

 

[General BrEeZy]

getting an abortion is like suicide: it's the weak way out. you shoulda been more careful. stick it out, go for adoption or woMAN up. thats just me, doesnt mean i'm right or anyone else is wrong, thats just how i see it.

"shoulda been more careful" shows you didnt read the original post, he was saying that a large number of women on the implant still get pregnant and was merely concerned that his girlfriend who was also on the implant (them being careful) migt get pregnant.

oh. ok, dreadfully sorry, thanks a lot.
i hate it when those things happen.

 

[Mandalore_15]

My point is, abortions take away potential life and the only reason you present as to why you'd want to abort is that you're afraid it will strain your relationship. That is selfish (not evil mind you). Abortion is the easy way out... FOR YOU! It is by no means easy on your partner as it goes beyond grief for her (which even you may be struck by).

Adotpion isn't easy I'm sure. Current trends suggest it's difficult to put up for adoption as there are fewer and fewer people adopting (considering there are higher rates of infertility, I find this odd).

If your partner wants to keep it then all you can do is stick with it or bail. If you want to want to stay but are sure it will tear you apart, then consider adoption.

You should talk to a professional (multiple would be better) if your concerned. You won't find an answer here. Just opinions (which is what you asked for).

I think this comment was aimed at me, am I right? Yes, that is a reason why I would want to end a pregnancy. There are other reasons as well: I'm not ready to be a parent and don't think I could give the child everything it deserves at this point. Also, my ambitions and direction in life would have to be abandoned. These are not small sacrifices.

However, I don't view any of this as being in the least bit selfish. The reason that it isn't selfish in my eyes is that something that doesn't exist can't have any rights, regardless of whether it may (or may not) exist in the future. I'm not putting myself before my baby because my baby doesn't exist. All I'm doing is ensuring it doesn't exist.

But yes, if I were to force my partner to terminate a child that would be selfish. I value her equally as (if not more so than) myself, so if she said she couldn't handle the grief of terminating the pregnancy I would go through with it and support her and all that stuff, regardless of what it was doing to my life.

And as much as adoption sounds appealling to you, to me that would be worse than any other option. If I were to have a child I would then feel responsibility (and love!) for it. I wouldn't want to abandon it to our country's dire child adoption system. Because of this, aortion is a much more attractive prospect in my eyes

Again, I can only suggest you ask professionals. I'm only giving an opinion. You're the one who is looking for opinions. I see it as selfish as it is for your own benefit. As much as you think you are doing it for your "relationship" that is not so. We as humans, are all selfish and find excuses to say otherwise.

Where are you from btw (country?). What's so bad about you're system?

Yes, I am only looking for opinions. I'm just trying to engage in a bit of debate to try and get to the route of what our opinions really are (sometimes it's less obvious than you think). For example, MY view of selfishness is when you do something in your own interests at the expense of someone else. Simply doing something in your own interests is not, in my view, selfish, as it is what we as animals are designed to do. I don't think having an abortion within a reasonable time limit is selfish because, if both parents agree to it, no-one is adversely affected by your decision because the only person losing out (the baby) doesn't exist yet. Anyway, that's just the way I see things.

As for talking to professionals, I know what I believe on the matter and don't think it would do me any good at this point. If my girlfriend wanted to discuss it with someone then of course I'd go with her and listen to what is being said, but I'm very much decided that my own viewpoint makes sense to me and is morally sound.

I'm from the UK.