Poll: Abortions in today's society: your views

[xc00l n3rdx]

Heh, I've never heard of that implant before. I can see your worry, if it's not 100% safe then what's the point right? Maybe your girlfriend should consider the pill?

My girlfriend was on the pill. Her doctor took her off it because it was giving her headaches and nasty mood-swings all the time. He also said that the implant was MORE effective than the pill... so far we've had no problems but this report has given me reason to question his statements!

I had the same problem with the pill, migraines and sickness so I was recommended the implant and told that the only way a woman could be pregnant whilst using it was pregnant before hand. But I heard this today and I am now worried that I may get pregnant. Doctors should not tell you it is full-proof when it obviously isn't!

 

[Mandalore_15]

i believe abortion is wrong, but i also don't feel it should be illegal. but more to the point of your question, no, i don't feel men should have much say at all in the decision-making process. it's the woman's body. if we're gonna screw 'em, we gotta live with the consequences.

This is the kind of viewpoint I find highly objectionable for two reasons:

1. It's predicated on the view that men are entirely responsible for sexual acts. This is bullshit. Men and women both have equal urges to have and enjoy sex, so both have to be responsible for any outcomes.
2. Equal responsibility breeds equal rights. If you believe this (which I strongly do), then both people should have a say in keeping or terminating the child.

It's these unequal rights that I think leads to the most tension. You take a situation that two people are equally responsible for but are able to dump the majority of the negative consequences on one party. The woman gets first rights to the child (unless shown to be negligent), the father gets no say in termination and then has to pay for the child's upbringing for the rest of his life... I'm not saying I have the answer but this just seems wrong to me.

noooo... my opinion is based on the fact that it's her body, not on the misguided idea that only men want sex. if men carried babies to term in their bodies, i'd say the men should get the final say. also, despite issues of child-support, women still take the largest burden for child-rearing (unless you stay together and become a house-husband). put quite simply: a child will almost always have far greater impact on a woman's life than on a man's. oh, boohoo, us guys have to pay some money. if we want to, we can say f*** off and never have anything more to do with the woman or child than to write a check every month. if you ask me, it sounds like the system is skewed in OUR favor, not the woman's.

I think it's easy to look at those payments as "just money". The fact of the matter is that those payments are not small, and for many men they can be adversely affected by them for their entire lives. If at some point they want to start a family in the future, they might find that they can't because they simply can't afford it. The super-rich are well catered for under this system, but the not-so-well-off aren't.

As for the "it's her body" thing, I know a lot of people take this point of view, but frankly I think that 9 months pregnancy pales in comparison to a lifetime of responsibility. As a man I'm not going to pretend to know what it's like to be pregnant and I know it can be a traumatic experience, but just because you have to go through it shouldn't give you a trump card in decision-making in my opinion. There are other considerations than what your body will be doing for nine months.

 

[Nimcha]

There are alternatives to abortions you know. So no, I don't agree with abortions.

I'm adopted and I found out my birth mother was initially planning on aborting me(was going to go abroad to do it). Fortunately for me, where she went to said she had missed the legal window and refused her. She didn't seek out more illicit means. A priest suggested adoption and thats what happened.

I was at risk of not existing, I felt like a part of me curled up and died when I heard about this.

Abortions are the easy way out and also the most selfish... man up and deal with it as this will define you as a person. If worse comes to worst then keep adoption in consideration. Accidents happen and most people have to deal with it in some way or form.

I think it is rather iffy judging people who undergo an abortion based on your personal experience.

My point is, abortions take away potential life and the only reason you present as to why you'd want to abort is that you're afraid it will strain your relationship. That is selfish (not evil mind you). Abortion is the easy way out... FOR YOU! It is by no means easy on your partner as it goes beyond grief for her (which even you may be struck by).

Adotpion isn't easy I'm sure. Current trends suggest it's difficult to put up for adoption as there are fewer and fewer people adopting (considering there are higher rates of infertility, I find this odd).

If your partner wants to keep it then all you can do is stick with it or bail. If you want to want to stay but are sure it will tear you apart, then consider adoption.

You should talk to a professional (multiple would be better) if your concerned. You won't find an answer here. Just opinions (which is what you asked for).

You're going on the assumption the woman always wants to keep the fetus. Which is not always the case.

And in the case of the OP, it is not just the strain on the relationship, he also feels they are not ready to have children yet. So it is also in the interest of any future children they might have.

 

[Woodsey]

First off: if anyone categorically states that abortion is bad no matter the reason, they can be categorically classified as an idiot.

I don't know if there's any on the Escapist, but there are people like that.

Anyway, abortion is fine to me as long as it's within a set time (I think the limit here is about 20 weeks) - if people don't want the child then they don't want the child. Yes, it'd be better to put it up for adoption but then you've got to go through a pregnancy, give birth and then sign away the child - even if you don't want it, that's more emotional distress then some people can handle.

And someone will likely mention the heart beating at 5 weeks: irrelevant. The heart is a muscle, you're letting a romanticised view of it get in the way (if that's when the kidney or liver developed no one would care) of your opinion.

 

[xc00l n3rdx]

I am not against abortions. I had an abortion 3 years ago and I don't regret it, I was too young to have that amount of responsibility and I know I wouldn't of been able to cope. The person who I was with I didn't love and I couldn't see a future with him and having a baby would of ruined our lives purely for the fact that we would of been stuck together and very unhappy. I also have A LOT of friends who have had babies and they seem to be doing well and seem to be managing but everyone is different and everybody has a different opinion when it comes to having a baby at a certain stage in their lives.

I really don't think when it comes to abortions that you should think 'I'm killing an innocent baby'. You should be thinking about the life that baby should have and life it will have, what if you can't support yourself let alone yourself and a baby should you really be bringing it in to this world???

 

[Ragsnstitches]

You're going on the assumption the woman always wants to keep the fetus. Which is not always the case.

And in the case of the OP, it is not just the strain on the relationship, he also feels they are not ready to have children yet. So it is also in the interest of any future children they might have.

No. Physical, Chemical, Emotional and Mental damage can occur. Going against the natural course does not interrupt the womans natural changes instantly. There are complications to abortions that can arise. One such, rarer still, is the potential of damage to the womb or some other necessary organ needed for child birth making future family planning a hell of a lot more difficult.

These are all risks to the woman. They don't always happen mind you.

Not ready to have children = strain on the relationship IN ANY situation. That point goes for people who willingly have children too.

Child raising is not a walk in the park.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like I want to abolish abortions. But people need to be aware there are risks and alternatives. Also, I disagree that the man has just at much at stake.

 

[ragestreet]

My views? I can see it.

 

[Estelindis]

First off: if anyone categorically states that abortion is bad no matter the reason, they can be categorically classified as an idiot.

I don't know if there's any on the Escapist, but there are people like that.

Well, you may categorically classify me as an idiot if you like, but kindly allow me to draw your attention to an important distinction.

An abortion is defined as an operation intended to end the life of the unborn child (or whatever you may wish to call the developing infant if this term does not please you). It is not an operation intended to save the life of the mother.

How can I say this with such confidence? Consider the following case. A pregnant woman is suffering from cancer of the womb. She will need an operation in order to survive, and as a consequence of this operation her unborn child will die. This is not an abortion, because its intention is to save her life. If, somehow, the child could be saved at the same time (even though, in fact, medical opinion is fairly clear that it can't be), then the operation would be seen not as a failure but as even more of a success. It saved two lives instead of one. In the case of an abortion, though, it would be seen as a failure if the child somehow survived, not as a success: because its aim was to end the life of the child. It failed to end a life that it was supposed to end.

Taking this definition of abortion, do you still feel the same way about anyone who categorically states that abortion is wrong?

 

[nuba km]

I say with in a reasonable time fame it's OK and the fact is the planed is overpopulating with humans so we do need to cut down on babies.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I say with in a reasonable time fame it's OK and the fact is the planed is overpopulating with humans so we do need to cut down on babies.

No! We need more babies and all the idiots of the world should be corralled and shot. Start fresh!

 

[goddz001]

altough a lot of the time abortions sound like "the right thing to do" they change you a lot. you dont realise what youve lost until its gone. its a terrible feeling when you lose it. especially when you know it was pretty much your fault.

 

[DreamerM]

Physical, Chemical, Emotional and Mental damage can occur. Going against the natural course does not interrupt the womans natural changes instantly. There are complications to abortions that can arise. One such, rarer still, is the potential of damage to the womb or some other necessary organ needed for child birth making future family planning a hell of a lot more difficult.

Those "complications" and "potential damage to the womb" statements are patently NOT TRUE. You undermine your credibility bringing them up.

 

[DTWolfwood]

for it if the woman donates the fetus to stem cell research!

Pro-choice. What a woman wants to do with her own body is her prerogative.

 

[Nimcha]

First off: if anyone categorically states that abortion is bad no matter the reason, they can be categorically classified as an idiot.

I don't know if there's any on the Escapist, but there are people like that.

Well, you may categorically classify me as an idiot if you like, but kindly allow me to draw your attention to an important distinction.

An abortion is defined as an operation intended to end the life of the unborn child (or whatever you may wish to call the developing infant if this term does not please you).

This definition is wrong. There is no life to end, it is meant to terminate the developing fetus from going into an unborn infant.

 

[nuba km]

I say with in a reasonable time fame it's OK and the fact is the planed is overpopulating with humans so we do need to cut down on babies.

No! We need more babies and all the idiots of the world should be corralled and shot. Start fresh!

I can get behind that idea but only if we do it with fire.

 

[The Stonker]

No one has the right to kill a defenceless child, whether that child is born or unborn. A person can choose to share sex with their partner in the knowledge that no method of contraception is completely foolproof (or at least they should know that if they have a proper sex education - but, frankly, in the absence of one, an adult should do the research and find out for themselves from genuinely reliable medical and bioethical sources). Once a person makes that choice, the responsibility for that choice falls on them rather than on the innocent child who did not choose to be conceived. The person has the responsibility to carry the child to term and ensure the child is cared for.

Okay. What if both of them are allergic to latex and have to use the pill or an implant?
If that fails, then should they be forced to keep the baby?
Plus, I will probably sound very malicious, but do you recognise a pile of tissue (organs) as human beigns? Do you think that they deserve "rights"?
Plus I'm one of those people who think it should be opted out that you have to sign under a release form so that they can take away your organs when you die.
You're dead and you have nothing to do with them.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Physical, Chemical, Emotional and Mental damage can occur. Going against the natural course does not interrupt the womans natural changes instantly. There are complications to abortions that can arise. One such, rarer still, is the potential of damage to the womb or some other necessary organ needed for child birth making future family planning a hell of a lot more difficult.

Those "complications" and "potential damage to the womb" statements are patently NOT TRUE. You undermine your credibility bringing them up.

Patently not true? Okay then, I'll tell my auntie her permanent womb damage as a result of an abortion (don't know specifics, and never asked) couldn't have happened because it's patently not true.

Take note, those are rare cases. Not common at all. My aunt was just incredibly unfortunate.

 

[HentMas]

118000 pounds for the mental distress of having an abortion...

that sounds stupidly low IMO, no women has come out of an abortion unscratched (unless she already was kind of touched in the head) and to put rougly 20286.18 dollars to each woman seems awfully low

I agree with you entirely. The problem is that the woman gets all the say in whether she has an abortion and the man gets none of it... this is what worries me if she were to become pregnant. I don't want to have that kind of stress on our relationship.

I had a problem 3 years ago

my ex-wife got pregnant while we were still in a not so long relationship

she wanted an abortion, i didnt, we argued

i told her "if you dont want the child, fine, just carry it for a few months and then you will never hear from us again"

in the end, convinced by MY conviction and MY ideals (which as you might have already figured out are very anti-abortion) she gave in

then her parents got in the way and made her marry me, i told her that if she didnt wanted to marry me not to do it, in the end i loved her, and she told me she "loved" me and all the previous arguments where in regards of the fear of having a kid

so we married, she had my son, and she loved the kid

i knew that all her life she was "Pro" abortion, but with her ideas being "i will never finish school" or "I cant keep going out with a kid!" or "I want to be the owner of my self" which to me are very selfish emotions and actually (IMO) very childish, i mean she was grown up to have sex but not old enough to have a kid?? that seems like an awfull double standard, she can have the fun but will not take responsibility?? that seems stupid to me

the "fetus" although being inside the female untill birth is a product of both parents, my genes as well as her genes are in it, so i would think its logic to make such a desition with BOTH persons involved, they say "Its a pain to carry a child" fine!, how much to carry my child?? what does it cost you to carry my child?? i will make anything you want for my child to be born safe and healthy.

she in the end was just scared, which it would lead me to believe most "unwanted pregnant" women are, and most guys have the same train of thought, wich in turn makes me think, "people are selfish jerks", but thats just my opinion based on my experiences, girl have kid, boy leaves them, thats a selfish jerk, girl gets pregnant, boy stays with her only if she haves an abortion, thats a selfish jerk, girl gets pregnant, boy wants the kid, girl aborts, thats a selfish jerk, girl gets pregnant, girl aborts without letting the father know, thats a selfish jerk, both want to abort, well... i would think both were selfish jerks, but thats fine i guess, we dont want to bring more pain and suffering in this world and the kid would rather be gone before he has any chance to experience first had how cruel this world can be.

now in regards of rape, the selfish jerk was the rapist, and unless the girl really really can stand looking at the kid and not remembering past experiences i would rather she aborted

but we are talking about concensual unwanted pregnancies, in the case posted above, i would think the selfish jerks were the pharmaceuticals, for releasing a product that was faulty and plays in such way with so deep emotions, regardless of previous convictions, i would think people would be sane enough to take a really really well thought desition about keeping the kid or not, but that would be a case by case scenario because they already were responsible enough to try and protect themselves, they earned the right to choose without any psicological damage... too bad most females dont think that way and will probably end up screwed emotionaly

In your case OP, talk to her BEFORE anything really happens, listen to her ideas, pitch her your own and TELL HER of your fears, if you are already making long term plans and commitments the least you could do is talk about this, it seems far and stupid, but it will save you a LOT of grief if thinks end up going wrily, ALSO, there are many ways for you to keep studying and having a kid, nothing is really "unsavageable", and nothing is really "imposible" take your fears and examine them, do you really think they are that hard?? i would think you know your case better than i do, but you have to examine every piece of evidence in liew of taking a wrong choize and regretting it all your life, you might say "i dont know if i can forgive her" well, first think "would i be able to forgive my self"? we as men tend to put the womens emotions first, but believe me, in this case, its always our own that matters, and it will be what will forge YOUR future, not hers, her being in your future is an entirely different matter.

OT: I AM PRO LIFE, anti abortion, or whatever you may call me, because i have a job, i always wanted to have kids, and i knew i was able to support a kid since i was 15, i had never believed in the "murder" (ugly term but thats what i believe) of the "posibility" of a person, and i have always known how to raise a kid, which most people dont, cant, and wont.

in my opinion ANY point being made about "Pro abortion" are just excuses because people dont want to man up and take a responsibility bigger than themselves, i think most people are scared, and fear drives them to blind themselves into believing they are taking the right choize, forget religion, i´m talking the most basic instinct, self preservation, people dont want kids because they fear what might change in their lives.

what i stated above is what i believe, and what i think, i dont know if i´m right, as much as i dont know if you are wrong, but i do know i would never condone abortion withouth a good reason.

 

[Estelindis]

This definition is wrong.

Feel free to argue about the validity of various criteria for life, but I will not engage with you if you treat your opinion as fact without backing it up. (I have already backed up my own opinion about the initial stages of human life.)

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I say with in a reasonable time fame it's OK and the fact is the planed is overpopulating with humans so we do need to cut down on babies.

No! We need more babies and all the idiots of the world should be corralled and shot. Start fresh!

I can get behind that idea but only if we do it with fire.

I don't want them to suffer. They have there moments and deserve some mercy.