Poll: Am I the only one who thinks the way Valve is run is kind of stupid?

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Breadline

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Mar 25, 2012
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I don't really think it's that laid back. I'm sure there's some sort of hierarchy to keep things running smoothly.

And I don't think anyone really cares about Gordon Freeman that much anymore, though I could be wrong.

tony2077 said:
its true you are never the only one. its amazing how many people miss use those words
I think what's even more amazing is how many people refuse to understand how common figures of speech work.
 

getoffmycloud

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Jun 13, 2011
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EternalFacepalm said:
getoffmycloud said:
the OP is absolutely correct this wouldn't work if they didn't have steam providing money for them they would have no choice but to be a lot more focussed and if I am honest it would probably help there release schedule if they did just so say you work on this project but do what you want within it.
Whelp. That's one hell of a sentence.

Think of this: They made Steam using this business model. I think that's all I need to say, really.
You have to remember steam was created when game development was much cheaper than it is now so the system did work then, today I am not so sure.
 

EternalFacepalm

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getoffmycloud said:
You have to remember steam was created when game development was much cheaper than it is now so the system did work then, today I am not so sure.
I think the evidence for the system working now is quite obvious. Valve are still loved by their fanbase, are they not?

The fact is, if they were forced to work on something they didn't want to do, they wouldn't be nearly as creative with it. Unhappy employees aren't the best way to create a good game.
funcooker11811 said:
Mr.K. said:
Yes we all want a new hit game from Valve every year but good creations can not be forced.
FFFFFFF- Why didn't you just say "can't"?! WHY?!
Tsk, tsk. "Cannot"-haters, they're everywhere.
 

Tony2077

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Breadline said:
I don't really think it's that laid back. I'm sure there's some sort of hierarchy to keep things running smoothly.

And I don't think anyone really cares about Gordon Freeman that much anymore, though I could be wrong.

tony2077 said:
its true you are never the only one. its amazing how many people miss use those words
I think what's even more amazing is how many people refuse to understand how common figures of speech work.
doesn't change how many time poeple misuse words figure of speech is just a lame excuse.
 

Breadline

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tony2077 said:
Breadline said:
I don't really think it's that laid back. I'm sure there's some sort of hierarchy to keep things running smoothly.

And I don't think anyone really cares about Gordon Freeman that much anymore, though I could be wrong.

tony2077 said:
its true you are never the only one. its amazing how many people miss use those words
I think what's even more amazing is how many people refuse to understand how common figures of speech work.
doesn't change how many time poeple misuse words figure of speech is just a lame excuse.
It's not a misuse of words specifically because it's a figure of speech. Its use is common and absolutely acceptable. If there's any lame excuse here it's your refusal to acknowledge how basic communication works. I assume you don't think idioms or metaphors are a proper use of words either. You're not a robot are you?
 

Tony2077

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Breadline said:
tony2077 said:
Breadline said:
I don't really think it's that laid back. I'm sure there's some sort of hierarchy to keep things running smoothly.

And I don't think anyone really cares about Gordon Freeman that much anymore, though I could be wrong.

tony2077 said:
its true you are never the only one. its amazing how many people miss use those words
I think what's even more amazing is how many people refuse to understand how common figures of speech work.
doesn't change how many time poeple misuse words figure of speech is just a lame excuse.
It's not a misuse of words specifically because it's a figure of speech. Its use is common and absolutely acceptable. If there's any lame excuse here it's your refusal to acknowledge how basic communication works. I assume you don't think idioms or metaphors are a proper use of words either. You're not a robot are you?
i doubt hate all them just the few like this that are used so damned often. always everyone a few others i can't recall atm
 

JoesshittyOs

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Elmoth said:
But then why did I find l4d1 and especially 2 unpolished and lack luster, and why does DotA 2 look like a joke? And where is episode 3?!
I heard that they went into the Left 4 Dead games trying to keep them as basic and fresh of an experience as they could. I'm in the same boat as you though. The Left 4 Dead games seemed lose their shine pretty quickly for me as well.

As for Dota 2, that's also a relatively small project that not all of Valve worked on. If I remember correctly, it was a really small team working on it.

And to be quite honest with you, the fact that we haven't seen Half Life 3 means either one of two things; 1)They're keeping it a big secret while they've been slowly working on a new engine and gameplay mechanics for the past few years, or most likely 2) They don't want to make the game.
 

veloper

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getoffmycloud said:
EternalFacepalm said:
getoffmycloud said:
the OP is absolutely correct this wouldn't work if they didn't have steam providing money for them they would have no choice but to be a lot more focussed and if I am honest it would probably help there release schedule if they did just so say you work on this project but do what you want within it.
Whelp. That's one hell of a sentence.

Think of this: They made Steam using this business model. I think that's all I need to say, really.
You have to remember steam was created when game development was much cheaper than it is now so the system did work then, today I am not so sure.
I for one am willing to bet that Valve makes a profit on all of it's games. That's all the development guys need.
Steam makes profit and the games make a profit, so even more profit.

Valve may not be making Half-life Episode 3, but they have been bringing out other games in the meantime, so they are productive.
Some game project on hold isn't costing them anything, or doesn't have to, aslong as they haven't made new graphics, like 3d models that will eventually look dated. Music, sound, story, ideas for gameplay mechanics, etc. don't have to go down the toilet as technology progesses and they already got alot of wear out of the updated Source engine itself in the meantime since they use it for everything.
 

Skootz

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The only gripe I have with valve is that they haven't said ANYTHING about the half-life series at all. zero communication is hardly the best policy in any matter and this is no exception. I would even be happy to hear "there will be no more half-life games, ever." Just so long as it's SOMETHING.
 

Tony2077

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Skootz said:
The only gripe I have with valve is that they haven't said ANYTHING about the half-life series at all. zero communication is hardly the best policy in any matter and this is no exception. I would even be happy to hear "there will be no more half-life games, ever." Just so long as it's SOMETHING.
i agree and i'd like some info about bungie like are they still alive
 

brunothepig

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I read the handbook too. Multiple times. Because it made me so happy. Those saying this wouldn't be possible without Steam, you may be right. So? I don't know how much Valve spend on projects that are eventually abandoned, but the fact that all their releases are critically acclaimed shows that the system works. They may well be losing profits through the system. They can afford to. It's wonderful to see a company willing to lose money for the sake of making the best games they can.

The way Valve do things means everyone is working as efficiently as possible. There's never a bored employee not paying attention to their coding, never someone working on something they don't like or believe in. As for having a leader, the handbook states that leaders arise naturally in the system. Which again works, because those that take over as "leaders" are those that are most passionate about the project. Since reading the handbook it has become a definitive dream of mine to work at Valve. I love everything about their system.
 

SenseOfTumour

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I'm reading a book about how we're all working harder and longer than ever before, even tho technology should have reduced us to one day weeks, being waited on by our robot butlers by now.

I can only agree with most of it, in that the major problem is that we're working harder, not smarter, and people are terrified of taking a risk.

Can anyone in a regular job tell me they're not doing seemingly pointless busy work for at least part of each working week? (Or at least just finding ways to fill the hours without working.)

Scott Adams wrote a chapter in one of his Dilbert books about how he'd run a company, and one of the biggest things was, unless there's a genuine emergency, no early starts and no staying late, because for the mental health of your staff, they need to be able to see 5pm coming around and just be able to know they can let go, forget about work and go home.

Also, he's anti meetings (surprise to anyone who's read his cartoons), because an hour meeting with 12 attendees is a minimum of 12 hours lost, not one, added to the organisation time, the follow ups etc, and so, so often, a group email could have covered it, often meetings being brought into place by management needing to feel relevant.

I've had many managers in my time, and by far the best were a couple at MVC, as they both understood that all the staff had enthusiasm for the job, wanted to work, and knew what we were doing. So they could effectively do the admin and the money, and then get on with just making the place better, and easier to run.

Never did we feel we were being watched, and if we did stop for a few minutes, we weren't harrassed, because there's an understanding that we're good 99% of the time. Cut your good guys a break and it pays.

I just wonder who, in terms of those in power, and want to succeed, are actually looking at Valve, Google, etc. Wondering if perhaps there's some merit in treating your staff like actual human beings. Considering that maybe demanding 20 hours a week of unpaid overtime doing stupid shit no-one needs might actually be detrimental to staff morale. Then there's a glimmer of hope that, maybe, someone else might consider some change.

I do get the feeling that Valve's making money without really trying, but maybe that's the secret, instead of chasing the almighty dollar and letting stuff like working conditions, pay, staff morale, etc fall by the wayside to boost share prices another quarter of a cent, maybe having productive, content staff, and letting them actually be creative instead of walling them into a specific role that they can't dare step out of, may actually work.

I just feel that there's an idea that anyone enjoying their job isn't working hard enough, and that's bs. Not everyone can love their job, but if they actively hate showing up each day, some of the blame has to be with the company.
 

NLS

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I'll say it as simple as this: Don't fix what ain't broken.
 

Ralen-Sharr

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Hectix777 said:
Let's say you ran a game studio and had about 100 employees all trained in whatever is needed. Your publisher has given you the IP to make 4 games released pretty frequently to each other.
this is where your whole point falls apart

Valve is self published, and a private company
Valve answers to nobody but it's own customers
No shareholders to show fancy charts to
No board execs that don't know a damn thing about games and gaming
They hold all the rights to their own IP's so they can release stuff that's not rushed or just pushed out because of some unrealistic deadline given by a publisher with their head up their ass.

This is why Valve CAN do what it does, and it works. I have yet to have problems with a Valve game, and they release stuff that's fun to play. Instead of copy-pasting what's successful they can step back and just make what they think will be fun and sell well, and they're pretty good at figuring that out.

Valve plays with different rules than pretty much every other game developer. I'm sure Blizzard could do the same if they wanted. They have a rabid fanbase and own the most successful digital distribution platform out there.

It works for Valve, so just reap the benefits and let them do their thing.
 

Lunar Templar

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Zhukov said:
They make awesome games, they're rolling in money and as far as I'm aware they don't engage in questionable practices.

...

Yup. Clearly a company being run by dumb people.

They need to get their shit together and start acting more like EA.
this, in all it's sarcastic glory
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Funcooker mostly hit this but I will clarify my position

Keoul said:
I don't get what you're complaining about o_O
the future of gaming.
So you hate the very thing that's making new companies therefore new and innovative games.
I am complaining because people do not see there is a need to complain about this. I complain because the "future" being pushed is NOT a good one. Despite how it helps some indie developers it undermines the nature of the industry screwing both large companies and indie developers.

I complain because this needs to be stopped before it gets out of hand and all there is left is to wait for another industry crash.


Valve runs these low prices which should be representative of what a "licensed" copy should be valued against a physical/sellable copy that they have indoctrinated people into thinking this model should be acceptable without deducting for the lost value of the product between a licensed digital copy and a physical copy
So you're angry these digital games are cheaper?

I just don't get it o_O If I'm wrong please explain because your argument right now makes no sense to me
Im angry at seeing a pusher addicting and indoctrinating the potential clientele and getting them hooked on the sweet sweet sale price and ignoring the fact that the drug is rotting them from the inside by encouraging the removal of ownership and leaving them with nothing for the money they have spent. Basically Steam is the modern day equivilent to snake oil salesmen.

And Funcooker, despite what Vigor suggested, I dont constantly come in and blindly hate valve just because I think its cool to hate valve. I dislike their practices, I see that those practices are causing industry wide problems and I see too many people ,ignorant, oblivious or downright irrationally defiant to how that is a problem. So I can consider if certain negative aspects were removed from their SOP, how that can make them acceptable. In short, I am a reasonable individual capable of adjusting my perspective as variables change.
 

DigitalAtlas

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Hectix777 said:
*If TL;DR skip to the bottom*

Now before you start, I actually like Valve. They do good work, make good games, and have developed a character I assume every PC gamer has been trying to push as the mascot of video games (Gordon Freeman) and replace Mario with him. They have a positive track record, the one place I look to when judging something is their past. They gave us Team Fortress 2, Half Life, DotA 2, the Source engine (possibly the easiest and friendliest level engine I've ever used), and the Portal series (within minutes of someone reading this their will be at least 3 references to the cake being a lie and the end song to Portal 2 on here). They have a good model, especially with Steam backing up their ventures the way they do. It's just with the release of this Valve employee handbook that has me thinking.

I'm one for the creative process and all and supporting an artist's right to create freely, but the whole lack of leadership thing kind of disturbs me. For those of you not familiar with it, Valve recently released their employee handbook which can be summed up to this:"Work on what you want, don't worry about deadlines, work freely, answer to no one, be creative, enjoy it." I know someone will correct me st some point, and I am open to it if you wish to correct me. Now while this sounds like a good method of making games, it sounds a bit counter-productive. There's no better way I can explain this than with an example.

Let's say you ran a game studio and had about 100 employees all trained in whatever is needed. Your publisher has given you the IP to make 4 games released pretty frequently to each other. What you would probably do is assign 25 people to each game; the way Valve runs means that those 100 people can freely choose which game to work on, that means while 37 guys work on game A only 13 go to work on Game B.

That's my problem, and it's most likely the reason why none of us have seen hide nor hair of Half Life 3 yet, it's because everyone is working on something else. Call me old-fashioned or close-minded, but working on a project you need someone to take charge so something is done. Valve is the only one who can pull of this because they have Steam to back them up financially, anyone else trying this would probably fail.

So my question is this: Does anyone else question the way Valve is run? Or find it kind of dumb?

P.S. Can someone explain to me the appeal of Gordon Freeman?
The handbook wasn't exact sir....

I'm sure someone went over this already, but here's how Valve works

>Someone suggests idea to board and other devs
>Recruitment starts
>Once you've been recruited, do your absolute best on everything you do and don't hand it in till it's ready.

That's really all it meant. There is no project jumping, nor can people go about their day without working on any project.