Poll: Anti-BioWare backlash?

[8a88leph1sh]

I'm looking forward to Mass Effect 3 more than virtually all else. Some of the marketing changes and other things that have come about after EA acquired them do irk me a bit but not enough to hate the developer...I just hate EA.

 

[Laser Priest]

I'm going to say I agree on some of the complaints about their actions with TOR, but otherwise, it seems a large portion of BioWare's fanbase is prepared to scream "Ruined Forever!" anytime the company does anything.

 

[Puddleknock]

Well this topic has stirred some passion on both sides.

Time for me to be very boring but I'm perfectly ok with Bioware. I've played all Bioware games since Baldur's Gate 2 (bar Dragon Age 2) and I'm still a fan. There are faults and features I dislike about the newer bioware games, but then the old games were not gaming perfection either. What matters is that I still enjoy playing bioware games and I see little reason to think that will change otherwise.

I have high hopes for ME3 and even with all the new features for ME3 I have faith that my hopes will be met.

 

[Sabertooth]

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Presumably the accusation is that they have sacrificed all artistic integrity in order to maximize profit. This, of course, assumes that profits are automatically maximized via the sacrifice of all artistic integrity, which is seldom the case.

Well even so, it has people who have jobs that depend on the success of their products. It´s not a charity case. They have to sell their products to the most people available, lest people loose their jobs.

Now I´m not defending them or attack them. I´m just saying that telling a company that functions on a profit basis, that it has "sold out" reeks of elitism to me. Think their games suck? Ok fine, but don´t act all pissy when the game has good sales.

Why do people argue that since a business needs to make money, anything goes?

Because as much as you like to think otherwise, that´s real life for you.

CD Projekt Red would like a word with you.

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Presumably the accusation is that they have sacrificed all artistic integrity in order to maximize profit. This, of course, assumes that profits are automatically maximized via the sacrifice of all artistic integrity, which is seldom the case.

Well even so, it has people who have jobs that depend on the success of their products. It´s not a charity case. They have to sell their products to the most people available, lest people loose their jobs.

Now I´m not defending them or attack them. I´m just saying that telling a company that functions on a profit basis, that it has "sold out" reeks of elitism to me. Think their games suck? Ok fine, but don´t act all pissy when the game has good sales.

Why do people argue that since a business needs to make money, anything goes?

Because as much as you like to think otherwise, that´s real life for you.

CD Projekt Red would like a word with you.

Or or what is that?

In case you are being serious; they are the studio behind The Witcher games. Worshiped by many because they did not use intrusive DRM on their titles, made both games difficult and showed it was still possible to make a shit load of money while pulling the whole thing off.

Never heard of them. I have very vague memories of the Witcher I think. Then again I´m note interested in medevil RPG settings, so that´s probably why it flew under my radar.

 

[IamGamer41]

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Well, it's a good thing I know how to use Google. You should try it. Here's how:

- Open a new tab
- go to https://www.google.com/
- in the search box type "sell out"

Since I am nice though and want to make it easier for you, I will just drop the definition here:

Anyone who sacrifices artistic integrity in an effort to become more successful or popular (generally in music); someone who forgets their roots.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sell%20out

You're welcome.

Instead of trying to be funny, you should read the other post I made.

I did and I wonder how naive you really are. Well, they must make money so they are permitted to do anything to reach that goal.

ME3 is part of a trilogy, to take the third game and shift the goalpost towards Kinect and multiplayer is just wrong. DA2 went in the wrong direction too considering it was the second game in a series designed to BRING BACK CLASSIC PC RPG GAMEPLAY. Bioware: "Let's take a series made for PC's and make the sequel for consoles and let's disable controller support for PC gamers making the console version the superior one".

There's more to it that just "they need to make money".

You call it being "naive" I call not being buthurted about trivial things. You can always try to run your own business tho.

Oh the classic "make a better game or don't complain" defense.

Hint: I am the consumer here, not the competition. I have a right to complain and I don't need to make a better game.

Bioware hasn't done right by it's fans and as a result many won't be giving Bioware any money for their latest releases. There is nothing wrong with talking about it and we don't all need to be business owners to have an opinion.

And the amount of people that will still buy games will still be superior to the "fans". It´s just a fact of life. You re perfectly free to not buy their games.

..and I am perfectly free to complain about their games too.

How many people really wanted another MMO? How many would have preferred KOTOR 3? Did they care?

Let´s, I played Kotor 1 and 2. So Kotor 3 never came out. Shrugs, life goes on, I would have found another thing to keep me interested. If other people want to play MMO, more power to them. I don´t really care about WoW and think the art style is cartoonish and the game boring, but I don´t say Blizzard has "sold out" or anything like it. I just don´t play the game, but I also realize that with the am mount of millions that play the game, my vote is meaningless. In all it´s just a waste of air, just like bitching about say.. Twilight or such.

It's fine that you're passive but we are here to discuss these things.

Blizzard did sell out, people wanted another Warcraft RTS and they got an MMO. You can't do anything about it but there's nothing wrong with having an opinion and discussing it on a gaming forum.

Want another example, nobody want Age of Empires Online, people wanted Age of Empires 4. Guess what we got?

I hope we get a Fallout 4 instead of a Fallout MMO.

Bioware has just played "follow the leader". Suppose no one complained, would that have prevented an MMO instead of a full game. Will complaints today prevent a Fallout MMO or an Uncharted MMO?

Lets not forget that the Warcraft MMO made Blizz millions an millions.So they choose the right thing.

 

[IamGamer41]

The only BioWare games I have played are Mass Effect 1 & 2, and Dragon Age: Origins (played the demo for DA2, and I didn't think it was bad). But with Mass Effect 3s upcoming release (which I am so eagerly awaiting), my opinion of BioWare is going down. 'Mass Effect 3 is better with Kinect!' 'Mass Effect 3 has three modes of play!' 'Mass Effect 3 is a great place for new players to jump into the series!' 'Multiplayer!', all of that just pisses me off so much.

Those things would annoying me but now I just don't care about them because of Origin. I refuse to install it onto my PC and am therefore also not going to be able to play ME3. Other than that I still hold Bioware in high regard but after EA took them over I have just been waiting to see them get run into the ground and it brings a tear to my eye knowing EA will do it someday.

Why not just uninstall Origin after your finished with ME3? Or is it uninstallable?

 

[The Last Nomad]

My Opinion of Bioware has changed ever since I played Mass Effect 2. Prior to that the only Bioware games were much older, the Baldur's Gate series, and I think I had played Neverwinter Nights, (I recently downloaded the Demo and I'm almost sure I played it before). However, I loved Mass Effect for the reasons I loved Baldur's Gate, although it was a different type of game and it was nowhere near as good (but that's saying alot, Baldur's Gate 2 is in my opinion one of if not the best game of all time, certainly of it's genre). But they have recently made some assholeish moves regarding how the games are released and the DLC sort of stuff. But isn't that sort of thing the publishers concerns?

Although Dragon Age 2 was sort of clearly a money grabbing attempt, so maybe the publishers aren't the only ones to blame here.

All in all, they still make great games.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Mass Effect 3 sounds like the ultimate sell out

Except that, y'know, they want to go back to the RPG roots. A good analogy for Bioware would be the Goldilocks tale; one game goes too much in that direction, the next too much in the other direction, and the third sits right in the sweet spot.

At least I hope it'll be like that, as we still have to see ME3 in the flesh.

 

[Oroboros]

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Well, it's a good thing I know how to use Google. You should try it. Here's how:

- Open a new tab
- go to https://www.google.com/
- in the search box type "sell out"

Since I am nice though and want to make it easier for you, I will just drop the definition here:

Anyone who sacrifices artistic integrity in an effort to become more successful or popular (generally in music); someone who forgets their roots.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sell%20out

You're welcome.

Instead of trying to be funny, you should read the other post I made.

I did and I wonder how naive you really are. Well, they must make money so they are permitted to do anything to reach that goal.

ME3 is part of a trilogy, to take the third game and shift the goalpost towards Kinect and multiplayer is just wrong. DA2 went in the wrong direction too considering it was the second game in a series designed to BRING BACK CLASSIC PC RPG GAMEPLAY. Bioware: "Let's take a series made for PC's and make the sequel for consoles and let's disable controller support for PC gamers making the console version the superior one".

There's more to it that just "they need to make money".

You call it being "naive" I call not being buthurted about trivial things. You can always try to run your own business tho.

Oh the classic "make a better game or don't complain" defense.

Hint: I am the consumer here, not the competition. I have a right to complain and I don't need to make a better game.

Bioware hasn't done right by it's fans and as a result many won't be giving Bioware any money for their latest releases. There is nothing wrong with talking about it and we don't all need to be business owners to have an opinion.

And the amount of people that will still buy games will still be superior to the "fans". It´s just a fact of life. You re perfectly free to not buy their games.

..and I am perfectly free to complain about their games too.

How many people really wanted another MMO? How many would have preferred KOTOR 3? Did they care?

Let´s, I played Kotor 1 and 2. So Kotor 3 never came out. Shrugs, life goes on, I would have found another thing to keep me interested. If other people want to play MMO, more power to them. I don´t really care about WoW and think the art style is cartoonish and the game boring, but I don´t say Blizzard has "sold out" or anything like it. I just don´t play the game, but I also realize that with the am mount of millions that play the game, my vote is meaningless. In all it´s just a waste of air, just like bitching about say.. Twilight or such.

It's fine that you're passive but we are here to discuss these things.

Blizzard did sell out, people wanted another Warcraft RTS and they got an MMO. You can't do anything about it but there's nothing wrong with having an opinion and discussing it on a gaming forum.

Want another example, nobody want Age of Empires Online, people wanted Age of Empires 4. Guess what we got?

I hope we get a Fallout 4 instead of a Fallout MMO.

Bioware has just played "follow the leader". Suppose no one complained, would that have prevented an MMO instead of a full game. Will complaints today prevent a Fallout MMO or an Uncharted MMO?

Lets not forget that the Warcraft MMO made Blizz millions an millions.So they choose the right thing.

That's great for them, but what's good for the company is not always good for the consumer. "We didn't get what we asked for, but they made money" is a pretty puzzling argument in favor of this sort of behavior. If a developer completely abandons what the target audience wants in favor of a new one (possibly drastically changing/retconning the IP that the former audience loved so much in the process) then they have a pretty fair justification for being annoyed with the developer, I figure. No one would care if Blizzard made an unrelated MMO on the side and made millions off of it, but it was made in substitution for the rest of an rts series. Not only is the MMO takign the palce of warcraft 4, but it *is* warcraft 4, as it is another game in the same series. I can understand why many fans would be upset with the final note of a beloved series ending in a completely different genre.

 

[Lunar Templar]

*shrugs*

they're just another developer to me, and and given the only game of theirs i actually liked enough to finish is DA: O i could really careless one way or another

 

[Sabertooth]

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Well, it's a good thing I know how to use Google. You should try it. Here's how:

- Open a new tab
- go to https://www.google.com/
- in the search box type "sell out"

Since I am nice though and want to make it easier for you, I will just drop the definition here:

Anyone who sacrifices artistic integrity in an effort to become more successful or popular (generally in music); someone who forgets their roots.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sell%20out

You're welcome.

Instead of trying to be funny, you should read the other post I made.

I did and I wonder how naive you really are. Well, they must make money so they are permitted to do anything to reach that goal.

ME3 is part of a trilogy, to take the third game and shift the goalpost towards Kinect and multiplayer is just wrong. DA2 went in the wrong direction too considering it was the second game in a series designed to BRING BACK CLASSIC PC RPG GAMEPLAY. Bioware: "Let's take a series made for PC's and make the sequel for consoles and let's disable controller support for PC gamers making the console version the superior one".

There's more to it that just "they need to make money".

You call it being "naive" I call not being buthurted about trivial things. You can always try to run your own business tho.

Oh the classic "make a better game or don't complain" defense.

Hint: I am the consumer here, not the competition. I have a right to complain and I don't need to make a better game.

Bioware hasn't done right by it's fans and as a result many won't be giving Bioware any money for their latest releases. There is nothing wrong with talking about it and we don't all need to be business owners to have an opinion.

And the amount of people that will still buy games will still be superior to the "fans". It´s just a fact of life. You re perfectly free to not buy their games.

..and I am perfectly free to complain about their games too.

How many people really wanted another MMO? How many would have preferred KOTOR 3? Did they care?

Let´s, I played Kotor 1 and 2. So Kotor 3 never came out. Shrugs, life goes on, I would have found another thing to keep me interested. If other people want to play MMO, more power to them. I don´t really care about WoW and think the art style is cartoonish and the game boring, but I don´t say Blizzard has "sold out" or anything like it. I just don´t play the game, but I also realize that with the am mount of millions that play the game, my vote is meaningless. In all it´s just a waste of air, just like bitching about say.. Twilight or such.

It's fine that you're passive but we are here to discuss these things.

Blizzard did sell out, people wanted another Warcraft RTS and they got an MMO. You can't do anything about it but there's nothing wrong with having an opinion and discussing it on a gaming forum.

Want another example, nobody want Age of Empires Online, people wanted Age of Empires 4. Guess what we got?

I hope we get a Fallout 4 instead of a Fallout MMO.

Bioware has just played "follow the leader". Suppose no one complained, would that have prevented an MMO instead of a full game. Will complaints today prevent a Fallout MMO or an Uncharted MMO?

Lets not forget that the Warcraft MMO made Blizz millions an millions.So they choose the right thing.

That's great for them, but what's good for the company is not always good for the consumer. "We didn't get what we asked for, but they made money" is a pretty puzzling argument in favor of this sort of behavior. If a developer completely abandons what the target audience wants in favor of a new one (possibly drastically changing/retconning the IP that the former audience loved so much in the process) then they have a pretty fair justification for being annoyed with the developer, I figure. No one would care if Blizzard made an unrelated MMO on the side and made millions off of it, but it was made in substitution for the rest of an rts series. Not only is the MMO takign the palce of warcraft 4, but it *is* warcraft 4, as it is another game in the same series. I can understand why many fans would be upse

How can a company that has to make money in order to exist, "sells out"? I never really understood that line of though.

Well, it's a good thing I know how to use Google. You should try it. Here's how:

- Open a new tab
- go to https://www.google.com/
- in the search box type "sell out"

Since I am nice though and want to make it easier for you, I will just drop the definition here:

Anyone who sacrifices artistic integrity in an effort to become more successful or popular (generally in music); someone who forgets their roots.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sell%20out

You're welcome.

Instead of trying to be funny, you should read the other post I made.

I did and I wonder how naive you really are. Well, they must make money so they are permitted to do anything to reach that goal.

ME3 is part of a trilogy, to take the third game and shift the goalpost towards Kinect and multiplayer is just wrong. DA2 went in the wrong direction too considering it was the second game in a series designed to BRING BACK CLASSIC PC RPG GAMEPLAY. Bioware: "Let's take a series made for PC's and make the sequel for consoles and let's disable controller support for PC gamers making the console version the superior one".

There's more to it that just "they need to make money".

You call it being "naive" I call not being buthurted about trivial things. You can always try to run your own business tho.

Oh the classic "make a better game or don't complain" defense.

Hint: I am the consumer here, not the competition. I have a right to complain and I don't need to make a better game.

Bioware hasn't done right by it's fans and as a result many won't be giving Bioware any money for their latest releases. There is nothing wrong with talking about it and we don't all need to be business owners to have an opinion.

And the amount of people that will still buy games will still be superior to the "fans". It´s just a fact of life. You re perfectly free to not buy their games.

..and I am perfectly free to complain about their games too.

How many people really wanted another MMO? How many would have preferred KOTOR 3? Did they care?

Let´s, I played Kotor 1 and 2. So Kotor 3 never came out. Shrugs, life goes on, I would have found another thing to keep me interested. If other people want to play MMO, more power to them. I don´t really care about WoW and think the art style is cartoonish and the game boring, but I don´t say Blizzard has "sold out" or anything like it. I just don´t play the game, but I also realize that with the am mount of millions that play the game, my vote is meaningless. In all it´s just a waste of air, just like bitching about say.. Twilight or such.

It's fine that you're passive but we are here to discuss these things.

Blizzard did sell out, people wanted another Warcraft RTS and they got an MMO. You can't do anything about it but there's nothing wrong with having an opinion and discussing it on a gaming forum.

Want another example, nobody want Age of Empires Online, people wanted Age of Empires 4. Guess what we got?

I hope we get a Fallout 4 instead of a Fallout MMO.

Bioware has just played "follow the leader". Suppose no one complained, would that have prevented an MMO instead of a full game. Will complaints today prevent a Fallout MMO or an Uncharted MMO?

Lets not forget that the Warcraft MMO made Blizz millions an millions.So they choose the right thing.

That's great for them, but what's good for the company is not always good for the consumer. "We didn't get what we asked for, but they made money" is a pretty puzzling argument in favor of this sort of behavior. If a developer completely abandons what the target audience wants in favor of a new one (possibly drastically changing/retconning the IP that the former audience loved so much in the process) then they have a pretty fair justification for being annoyed with the developer, I figure. No one would care if Blizzard made an unrelated MMO on the side and made millions off of it, but it was made in substitution for the rest of an rts series. Not only is the MMO takign the palce of warcraft 4, but it *is* warcraft 4, as it is another game in the same series. I can understand why many fans would be upset with the final note of a beloved series ending in a completely different genre.

To be honest, I found Warcraft 3 a pretty mediocre game. Probably the same reason I don´t really care about WoW.

 

[Sixcess]

One reason why the level of criticism has risen so significantly is that Bioware have entered an entirely new genre (for them) with The Old Republic. Dedicated MMO players are less likely to soften their opinion based on their single player games - quite the reverse.

It hasn't helped that Bioware have been insufferably arrogant in the run up to and following the release of SWTOR.

"One of the greatest achievements in the history of video games."

"After playing SWTOR, people are finding it difficult to go back to other MMOs."

"SWTOR is the first MMO where story really matters."

Etc etc. Every time they point out how superior their game is they're indirectly pissing on every other MMO, and they've done that a lot.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Well, dragon age 2 was mind-bogglingly bad, and by most accounts TOR is a solid MMO with the questionable choice to give a mediocre script a more central role. I don't think that that's enough to prove a decline. Now if only they would change the mandatory Origin policy so I could actually buy their games...

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I was honestly more uneasy with them around the past few games that everyone loved, I was seriously underwhelmed by Mass Effect 2.

Though now that I've seen some gameplay for 3, I'm hopeful. It looks good.

 

[Oroboros]

[quote="Oroboros" post="9.339715.13744501
To be honest, I found Warcraft 3 a pretty mediocre game. Probably the same reason I don´t really care about WoW.

Well, I never really got into it either, except for the custom maps and stuff like that. I prefer games in the vein of Total War. But I have known people who are into that sort of stuff, so I can understand the sentiment in this case, and I feel that aspects of this argument do apply to the direction that Bioware is heading in recent years.

 

[Amaror]

To anyone here, who says they had to "sell out" to get money:
Dragon Age 2 made less money than Dragon Age Origins.

 

[Sabertooth]

To anyone here, who says they had to "sell out" to get money:
Dragon Age 2 made less money than Dragon Age Origins.

What was the difference in profits?