Poll: Any Romantics out there?

[jockslap]

So let me get this straight. You think that I should, on a usual basis, hold the door open for you and be sensitive to the fact that you are a woman when talking to you in the office, and that you think I should go out of my way to treat you better (like, say, not cussing with) than just a guy I share a cubicle with, but then when it comes promotion time you and I should be equal, although the only thing you've done to reciprocate me going out of my way is a smile here and there.
Do you see the double standard yet?

And I am so confused by your second paragraph. When did personal economics become a job as a firefighter?

So not cussing and opening the occasional door consists of "going out of your way" and somehow makes you a worthier human being, but a woman taking time out of *her* day to express appreciation *doesn't*? Do you see the double standard THERE?

Idiot. No wonder you're having such a tough time comprehending my firefighter analogy. One of the areas where women of the feminist type complain most stringently about "discrimination" against women is in tough physical jobs where most women just aren't up to the work. (The women who CAN do the work generally aren't interested in it.) So instead of accepting that there are always going to be a lot more male firefighters, they demand that women be held to lower standards than men in hiring practices until "parity" is achieved.

How this is going to help someone trapped inside a burning building I do not know, but a woman will Have A Job and apparently that's all that matters to feminists. Since most personal economics consist of having a job, the analogy is pretty damn apt.

No, my double standard analogy does not make me a worthier human being. But frankly, no, smiling at me just because I was polite is not equal, especially considering that you are already expected to smile and as I'm holding the door for you, I am smiling myself. What, you think I'm going to hold the door for you and scowl as your walk past?
Let me try this with out incurring a flame war, since that's what I'm trying to not do.
If I, as a human being, make space for another, different type of human being, on a regular basis, but it is not expected that this other human being do anything notable to make space for myself as a human being, but then this other human being also expects that when the time comes, they will be held on the same pane as myself, even though I am put under more constraints as to what I should do than this other human being is. They expect that the only manner by which they are judged is by work, and certainly if they work harder for it then they deserve the promotion/pay raise/whatever, but if we are equal in our outputs, and I am the one going out and doing extra to accommodate other human beings while not being compensated by any sort of politeness nor expecting any compensation in return, then no, I don't feel like there is an equality there.
If one worker has a partner who is mentally disabled, and the worker has to constantly aid the second one in movement although the second person is good at his job, then the first one is doing more and should be regarded in a more favorable light.
If one worker is consistently polite to the other worker, follows an explicit set of rules that the other one is not really bound by, and they both do well at their job, then they can not be judged on the same level because they do not operate on the same level.

Does that make a little more sense?
Does it show the double standard or expecting, and then expecting again rather than giving?
Certainly some males do this too, but I'm going to guess these are the minority.

And as far as your Fireman's analogy goes, I agree with you. It's the same reason women are kept out of combat infantry in the armies. They just can't push themselves as far or as fast as men can. I'd almost argue that women should be kept to more desk-type jobs in police departments too, except I know one and I'm fairly certain she could kick my ass from here to Helsinki and not break a sweat.

ninja im gunna have to disagree with you there, it just takes the right type of woman (physically i mean), its like how some men can't play football. I have seen women do some amazing things before, that perhaps a man couldn't do. For example the woman who picked up a car to save her child, i think we have all heard of that one, so im not gunna bother digging around the internet looking for proof.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

ninja im gunna have to disagree with you there, it just takes the right type of woman (physically i mean), its like how some men can't play football. I have seen women do some amazing things before, that perhaps a man couldn't do. For example the woman who picked up a car to save her child, i think we have all heard of that one, so im not gunna bother digging around the internet looking for proof.

Okay, I'll agree that there are SOME women who can actually do things men can't do. In general, and by that I mean 99.9999% of all women out there, average women are not able to do the things average men can do, and average firefighters are stronger and more built than average men. Some on the whole, women can not physically do the things soldiers have to do on a regular basis either. Hell, most men can't either. You ever taken a 26 mile forced march?

I'll disagree with you on football. All men can play football. Just not all men can play it well.

 

[JMeganSnow]

No, my double standard analogy does not make me a worthier human being. But frankly, no, smiling at me just because I was polite is not equal, especially considering that you are already expected to smile and as I'm holding the door for you, I am smiling myself. What, you think I'm going to hold the door for you and scowl as your walk past?

Oh, I see, you took smiling as an attempt to reward a guy for opening a door. That's not what I meant. Women should smile at men or give them *some* special treatment/acknowledgment on principle, just as men occasionally do nice things for women on principle, just because they're women. It's just how you occasionally treat your friends to an ice cream cone or whatever without sitting down and hashing out exactly how they're going to repay you--the general give and take of the relationship more or less balances out and it's a wash. That's how it ought to work.

Men generally aren't aware of just how many concessions women give them because they don't often see how women act when there are no men around. From what I've seen, women are *slightly* more conscious of what men do, but only slightly. I'm usually not, I'm the type of girl who pulls out a chair and sits in it even if the waiter in the restaurant has already pulled one out for me--not because I refuse to be "treated", but because I didn't want to sit in that chair and I didn't notice what he was doing. My housemate LAUGHED at me for that one.

 

[Jackpot]

Friends don't let friends be romantics. It ruins lives and it ruins minds.

I still haven't properly recovered.

 

[searanox]

I'm more "hopeless" than romantic, really. There's nothing wrong with romance, but I'm not really a romantic sort of person in any traditional sense, i.e. flowers, perfume and fancy restaurants. I'm almost completely incapable of expressing love for anyone, much less any sort of feelings at all, though I suppose I'm perfectly capable of possessing them. I also do an excellent job of repulsing pretty much anybody who might have remote intentions towards me simply because I'm unable to respond to them, and so default to my "bitter, spiteful bastard" standard. If I ever do get involved in a relationship with anybody, it sure as hell is not going to be because I wooed them into submission.

 

[ovset]

This thread has an awful lot of boo-hooing and ass-patting.

Stop sitting around feeling sorry for yourself and go outside and talk to people. Social skills are like ANY other skill and need to be honed in order to be of any use. People use words like "charisma" and "charm" to make it seem like some mysterious gift that only certain people have. Bullshit. Charismatic people speak with three main qualities in conversation: agreeability, persuasiveness, and most importantly, confidence. You want a girl? You have to make it seem like you're the prize. Show her how you're different from the rest. If she's giving you the cold shoulder, walk away and find a new target. You have to be willing to lose a girl to get her.

I used to be like all of you, wondering why all my female love interests were going out with these COMPLETE douchebags that treated them like dirt for the longest time. Of course, I was there to pick up the pieces when her Mr. Man went and fucked off. Sound familiar? Stop doing it. If she calls you wanting to cry, tell her to suck it up and hang up. Stop presenting yourself as a doormat and start showcasing yourself as an opportunity.

Protip: exercise is a natural anti-depressant/anti-anxiety that has long-term side effects such as better body image, better self-image, more confidence, better health, and if you play your cards right, a love life. Log off WoW, get off the computer, and go do something.

 

[falcontwin]

there is a massive difference between being a "romantic" and being fake. Way too many guys think that if they act like what they see in tv shows or whatever by being mega sensitive and caring and letting the woman always be right that they will get some. The truth is that just being you as you are warts and all is more attractive to women than any one you can pretend to be.

I often hear guys complain about girls always going out with guys who treat them like shit.Who cannot understand why these girls would rather be with the guy who isn't always nice to them rather than ypu who would treat them like a princess.

The reason is because the guy who does not always treat them so good is at least being his honest self. and that means she can trust him to tell the truth. whereas you who is sitting there saying I would give you everything and be subservient to your every wish is lying to them because that is not the real you it is who you want to be. In the real world this girl is just another human being with all the faults that people have but you in your pubescent pie in the sky romeo and juliet fantasy crap build women up to be something more than they can ever live upto. And that is why they do not want to be with you, why would anyone want to set themselves up to destry someone elses dream?

Women are people. just treat them as equals instead of goddesses and you will be just fine.

 

[......]

Should women be treated like equals? Of course.
Is that why they keep dating terrible men? I seriously doubt it.

To walk up to someone and say "If you go out with me I'll give you everything and be really good to you etc, etc" is essentially a bribe. And yes, that whole romance-novel-knight-in-shining-armor fantasy is just that. It's unrealistic to a quality relationship, and a lot of girls seem to be stuck in that ideal, that a man is there simply to take care of them and do everything for them and always be their "yes man". These expectations are impossible to keep up for more than a short period of time, and as soon as their boyfriend's armor loses it's sheen, they dump him for the next prospective caretaker.

As for dating lousy guys, the pattern seems to go something like this:
Is he attractive? Yes. Is he confident? Yes. Are those desirable qualities? Yes. Is he a total prick? Yes. It seems to me that these girls are far too taken by the first two clauses to realize that the last one outweighs them both. They are also too quick to jump into a relationship with someone, thus not finding out until later what an ass their boyfriend is. But for some reason, they seem to believe that their initial shallow attraction and/or some societal belief of what a "good catch" is, and fail to escape while they have the chance. In worst case scenarios, this is where the girl starts coming home with black eyes because of how "honest" their boyfriend is.

Are all women like this? Of course not. Are a lot of them? Yeah, they are. But then again most of the females who fall for these things also tend to wear lots of pink and glitter and have bleach-blond hair and think that Britney Spears is the best singer ever. There is also the fact that a lot of shallow people, be they men or women, tend to think of having a girlfriend/boyfriend as an accessory, as some kind of sign of social status, or people who can so easily attain a relationship that they give little thought to it's actual value and lack the concept of sincerity.

A real romantic relationship with someone is not a magical cure to make you a better person or make your life perfect. But being able to have someone that you can truly care about and share your life with is part of the happiness of being human. Lots of people find that person who is just right for them, one person's true love is just as strong as another pair's, but that doesn't make it any less special.

One of the most basic errors in trying to get a date is simply knowing "what do you want from this?". Do you want "A" girl, or do you want "THE" girl. And what must be understood, is that a real relationship is a two-way street. You are equals. You are partners. There is give AND take on both sides. Too many times does one or both sides try to tilt the scale too far in one direction, and too many times does someone think that the slightest problem means you should just leave and find someone else. Honesty is being able to tell someone exactly what you feel, think and believe, even if it's not what they want to hear, even if it's something they disagree with. And if you can have those discussions and arguments and still accept each other, then I'd say the two of you have a lot of potential.

Don't get hung up on stupid, cheesy ideals, lame stereotypes and preconceived notions. Men and women spend far too much time treating each other as different animals. You don't have "women" problems, you have "Susan" problems because you forgot her birthday. What do women want? That's easy. They want honesty, respect and love. The same damn things everyone else wants. Don't waste time asking "how do guys think", get to know them and ask "how does THIS guy think".

Bah, how much have I typed already? Normally I barely speak two words.
Anywho, I checked "hopeless romantic". Why? Because the entire extent of my dating experience is the brief one I had about 7 years ago. Of course I'm incredibly lonely, how else could I be a hopeless romantic? You think someone who was popular could come up with this crap?

 

[dalek sec]

I've given up on trying my luck at dating in general because to me the rewards don't even come close to risk's one has to take now a days. You might be able for a few days but in time like most things it'll go bad and turn to dust with enough time. The one main thing that drives me insane is that none of my friends or people I talk online with have been able to give me a real reason as to why I shouldn't give up about this stuff and why is it so important that I try it out or why I shouldn't just pack it up and become a shut in.

maybe i can't give u a reason why u should but maybe ill just run this by you

perhaps love doesn't have to last forever, maybe if it's something that no matter how short u still wouldn't trade away that time for anything else in the world?
(i know the wording in there sucked hard, but i think i got my point across)

Somewhat but it really doesn't answer my questions about it.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

No, my double standard analogy does not make me a worthier human being. But frankly, no, smiling at me just because I was polite is not equal, especially considering that you are already expected to smile and as I'm holding the door for you, I am smiling myself. What, you think I'm going to hold the door for you and scowl as your walk past?

Oh, I see, you took smiling as an attempt to reward a guy for opening a door. That's not what I meant. Women should smile at men or give them *some* special treatment/acknowledgment on principle, just as men occasionally do nice things for women on principle, just because they're women. It's just how you occasionally treat your friends to an ice cream cone or whatever without sitting down and hashing out exactly how they're going to repay you--the general give and take of the relationship more or less balances out and it's a wash. That's how it ought to work.

Men generally aren't aware of just how many concessions women give them because they don't often see how women act when there are no men around. From what I've seen, women are *slightly* more conscious of what men do, but only slightly. I'm usually not, I'm the type of girl who pulls out a chair and sits in it even if the waiter in the restaurant has already pulled one out for me--not because I refuse to be "treated", but because I didn't want to sit in that chair and I didn't notice what he was doing. My housemate LAUGHED at me for that one.

Okay, I'll buy that. I'll buy that later in life (considering I'm on the young side) that it will work that way, and having interned in a corporation it was more as you described it than I am.
Hmm, Perhaps I should just say I wish people would learn from their mistakes faster. I have one friend who keeps dating the same kind of guys, and then wonders why they keep running off. Thank god she doesn't expect me to listen.

Oh, and I've seen how women act when they're not around. I've been the shadow more than once. "Oh, it's him, He doesn't matter..." Not said so much as eyed, but I can still hear what's going on and... yeah, women make concessions as much as men make concessions, just that both sides also play by different dating rules.

 

[Dramatic Flare]

I've given up on trying my luck at dating in general because to me the rewards don't even come close to risk's one has to take now a days. You might be able for a few days but in time like most things it'll go bad and turn to dust with enough time. The one main thing that drives me insane is that none of my friends or people I talk online with have been able to give me a real reason as to why I shouldn't give up about this stuff and why is it so important that I try it out or why I shouldn't just pack it up and become a shut in.

maybe i can't give u a reason why u should but maybe ill just run this by you

perhaps love doesn't have to last forever, maybe if it's something that no matter how short u still wouldn't trade away that time for anything else in the world?
(i know the wording in there sucked hard, but i think i got my point across)

Somewhat but it really doesn't answer my questions about it.

AS far as being a shut in goes, being grounded to her house for a summer with nothing to do, and no ability to contact the outside, is what caused my ex to almost commit suicide. I'm not saying you'll commit suicide if you become a shut in, but you do realize there will be a psychological effect from the loneliness, correct?

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Haha..My boyfriends one of the awkward guys. I think that example conversation is almost an exact replica of our first conversation. If you get to know someone well it stops being a social situation and you don't need to think about what you say as you dont need to impress them...I used to be that awkward to.

Eh, I feel awkward when I talk to someone alone that I do not know well myself. It just feels weird... But if they game it somehow is less weird somehow.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I've given up on trying my luck at dating in general because to me the rewards don't even come close to risk's one has to take now a days. You might be able for a few days but in time like most things it'll go bad and turn to dust with enough time. The one main thing that drives me insane is that none of my friends or people I talk online with have been able to give me a real reason as to why I shouldn't give up about this stuff and why is it so important that I try it out or why I shouldn't just pack it up and become a shut in.

maybe i can't give u a reason why u should but maybe ill just run this by you

perhaps love doesn't have to last forever, maybe if it's something that no matter how short u still wouldn't trade away that time for anything else in the world?
(i know the wording in there sucked hard, but i think i got my point across)

Somewhat but it really doesn't answer my questions about it.

AS far as being a shut in goes, being grounded to her house for a summer with nothing to do, and no ability to contact the outside, is what caused my ex to almost commit suicide. I'm not saying you'll commit suicide if you become a shut in, but you do realize there will be a psychological effect from the loneliness, correct?

They are weak that is all.

If you seriously contemplate suicide, The problem with loneliness comes with being alone in ones mind. If you keep yourself busy then you have less time to think about well killing yourself. The psychological effect from loneliness if bestowed on by yourself.

 

[Galletea]

Dorothy Thompson:

Only when we are no longer afraid do we begin to live.

Shutting yourself away is never the answer. If we all hid from pain, then we'd never experience anything, then what would be the point?

 

[gremily]

I think romance comes from manners (and telling your freinds how many girls you slept with when you didn't and that will come back to you eventually is not manners), honesty (which lieing will come back to you also), and respect.

 

[Fruhstuck]

*checks pants, feels testicles" Nope, guess Im not a romantic.

You, my friend, are an absolute legend
I'd shag you based purely on the awesome in that line
.... were i a girl

 

[lukemdizzle]

there's a direct ratio between how good your are at halo and how good you are with girls, unfortunately for me Im very good at halo

 

[Zac_Dai]

I have no charisma whatsoever, a voice I find annoying (Seriously. When I hear myself over TS, I find myself cringing), a tendency to slur my words and mumber no matter how hard I try to speak clearly, no game -- "inner" or "outer" -- etc, as well as a lack of confidence (Apparently).

In short: The only way it seems I'd ever be able to date successfully would be to become a completely different person. I'm looking into the possibility of forced amnesia.

I have a bad tendency to mumble and slur, especially when talking to new people. Best solution I found is to keep everything you say short and simple and make the other person do all the talking, people like to talk about themselves anyway so its quite easy.

As for the poll I said yes but more romantic in thought I guess, I've never been really romantic with any of the girls I've been with.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Those crazy japenese kids. Shutting themselves in their rooms and not coming out to either eat, shit, or die.