Poll: Are dating games misogynistic?

[Lazier Than Thou]

Women are "objects" to be won. Courting is, in effect, trying to get a woman to like you most of the time. Generally speaking, women choose, men are chosen. Thus, men try to prove themselves as good suitors to woo a woman. Hypergamy at its finest and most blatant.

Really, I think the only problem with all of this is the whole "object" thing. If you're disregarding a persons humanity then you're doing it wrong. It doesn't matter what person you're doing it to, either. Seeing men as nothing more than faceless drones to work and die for whatever collective you choose isn't any better than seeing women as nothing more than baby-making facilities.

So that leads to a question: Do war games like StarCraft and the like objectify men? After all, the vast majority of the characters of these games are men and they are being mowed down for little more than strategic use. Do they create a greater narrative that men are good for nothing more than dying in conflict for women and children?

Furthermore, these are games. These "women" are not real. You cannot collect real women in the same way you could collect virtual women. They're an artists rendition of a particular idea of what a woman could be like. I think the far more heinous aspect of these types of games is the fact that the women aren't usually believably real. They're one dimensional and flat. That's the worst part of it.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Probably, but I look at them with the same sense of seriousness as when I look at those romance/sex novels depicting the 'perfect man' for woman. They're meant to be that way because it's simple fictional escapism.

 

[The Madman]

Any game that simplifies 'romance' as a multiple choice question where you're supposed to somehow please the character of opposite gender into loving you is goddamned stupid, regardless of whether it's a 'dating sim' or the latest rpg.

So are dating sims misogynistic? I don't really think so. I think they're stupid. I also find them a bit creepy, but not misogynistic... at least not intentionally. Mind you it's worth pointing out my only experience with the genre are a few reviews I read by a poster on these forums named Neutral Drow awhile back so I'm not exactly qualified to judge the entire genre.

 

[LilithSlave]

I have had nothing to do with the genre, and I have not played the game, but is that not Catherine? At least in general story and not gameplay?

Not quite but it's... close in some ways.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

I have had nothing to do with the genre, and I have not played the game, but is that not Catherine? At least in general story and not gameplay?

Not quite but it's... close in some ways.

See, I think Catherine's a good example since it's like a dating game but at the same time doesn't feel misogynistic since both K/Catherines are fairly realistic as far as they can be given that one's a

Spoiler

demon from hell

and makes a point of calling out all the men who are cheating douchebags. Which is GOOD but it also shows most of the women in it as being very posessive and keen to put a ring on it. Except Erica

Spoiler

who's probably the most interesting view in a game about gender relations since she's post-op

But yeah, Otome games stand out, shows dating games as a genre aren't misogynistic. They might be sexist but they don't hate women.

Sorry for the Spoilers but didn't want to ruin it for anyone who hasn't played the game >_>

 

[Deadyawn]

I can't really speak with a great deal of authority here(considering I haven't actually played any) but I think that its difficult to judge these sorts of things without having tried them yourself. I mean, how do you know what they're like if you haven't played them? Maybe they aren't so bad.
That just got me thinking, I wonder if there are any dating simulators for women. I cerainly haven't heard of any, although I don't really know much about this stuff.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

They're not inherently misogynistic. Some are, some aren't.

Most of the ones I've seen have been, though

 

[MetalMagpie]

As a general concept, no more than women's magazines that treat men as problems to be solved!

Actual article titles I have seen:
"Top Ten Tips for Catching the Man of Your Dreams (and keeping him once you've got him!)"
"Get His Attention: The Style Tips That make Him Take a Second Look"
"Stop Him Straying: The 5 Essential Rules for Keeping Your Man Loyal"

And a fantastic article (that I can't remember the title of) which advised using "simple, straight-forward language" when talking to your man (presumably to stop his caveman brain overheating) and to "remember to praise him" if he does something well (like remembering to take the bins out). Because being in a relationship has a lot in common with training a dog. Right?

Going back to dating games specifically: It would depend on the content.

 

[Snowbell]

I don't think they are, but I would love to see more visual romance novels aimed at women.

 

[Kahunaburger]

As a general concept, no more than women's magazines that treat men as problems to be solved!

Actual article titles I have seen:
"Top Ten Tips for Catching the Man of Your Dreams (and keeping him once you've got him!)"
"Get His Attention: The Style Tips That make Him Take a Second Look"
"Stop Him Straying: The 5 Essential Rules for Keeping Your Man Loyal"

And a fantastic article (that I can't remember the title of) which advised using "simple, straight-forward language" when talking to your man (presumably to stop his caveman brain overheating) and to "remember to praise him" if he does something well (like remembering to take the bins out). Because being in a relationship has a lot in common with training a dog. Right?

This is something that drives me up the wall about that sort of magazine, no matter what gender it's written for. What I've seen of dating games definitely gives me a similar creepy vibe, as does the Bioware sort of in-game romance.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Some do some don't (and it is done on both genders), pick your flavor and go at it, or alternatively try the real thing ... much better graphics

As for your friend, she seems to have fallen out of the ignorance three and hit every branch on the way down.
Because everyone is trying to figure out everyone else, and it is never gender limited she just likes to see it that way.

 

[Weaver]

We we talking about actual dating sims or romantic visual novels?
Actual dating sims are pretty awful, IMO.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I don't think they are, but I would love to see more visual romance novels aimed at women.

Well, the traditional words-on-paper romance novels are almost all aimed at women. I wonder if there's a trend that women generally prefer using their imagination (e.g. prompted by reading a book) over viewing images.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I imagine they can be pretty sexist, creepy, and possibly retarded at times, but I wouldn't say that's the same thing as a deliberately misogynistic game. I'm no expert on dating simulators, why the hell would I ever play one of those in the first place? I'm not a guy and I hate "romance".

 

[orangeban]

They certainly can be pretty shady, the whole of issue of getting a girl being "winning" and not getting one being "failing", the idea that if you just have the right stats and say the right things, you must get a girlfriend! It's all a little creepy and objectifying (and some of the really bad ones are just horrifying (and hilarious)).

 

[Snowbell]

Well, the traditional words-on-paper romance novels are almost all aimed at women. I wonder if there's a trend that women generally prefer using their imagination (e.g. prompted by reading a book) over viewing images.

I think it's more that in our culture, men would be looked down on for indulging in 'erotic literature' whereas it's commonplace for women due to long established boundries. However, in Japan there is less sex and more indulgence in the fantasising of the anime media, why hardly any of it as aimed at women is, I presume because their culture views the women as less sexually interested, hence why there's less sex overall.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my hat here :|

As for myself, I've never been interested in reading a book about two people having sex, just as I'm not interested in watching two people have sex (porn) because I'm not a sexual person. I like that visual novels let you make your own decisions, but the fact that so many of them have sex as part of the story really puts me off

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I don't really like them that much especially if they are the only thing about the game. Makes women out like they are pokemon to be collected or something.

They are almost always aimed at men too with no male options present. That kind of says to me that the people making the game think that only straight men play videogames or something.

They certainly can be pretty shady, the whole of issue of getting a girl being "winning" and not getting one being "failing", the idea that if you just have the right stats and say the right things, you must get a girlfriend! It's all a little creepy and objectifying (and some of the really bad ones are just horrifying (and hilarious)).

I think this posts describes my unease it with it quite well.

 

[Risingblade]

What would you call the male versions then?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't think women are depicted as trophies to be "won" but rather as puzzles to be solved. I think that's a charming depiction of the reality of the situation from the guy's point of view. We feel that there's always a chance, even if the girl is a supermodel and we're 300 pounds and broke as hell, if only we play our cards right it's possible.


This sort of innate mentality is present in those games and it actually mirrors quite a bit of what men experience in real life, albeit with an actual guarantee that the girl is winnable.

Yes, there are Otome games.

I think that there are a lot of themes in them which are sexist. There's definitely problems in the genres. Loads, really. Some of it is just laziness with the genre.

Dating games aren't all the exact same, though. And there's nothing wrong with the concept. Can one honestly argue the concept of games revolving around dating and romance are worse than games about violence?

Honestly, they ought to go down the Love Plus route, but better. It'd be nice to see a game about not only romance, but realistic and interesting romance that is a somewhat beautified version of a real life marriage. A lot of Japanese people feel they would like a wife but feel they cannot have one. And a lot of people seem so attached to idols and fictional characters they act almost as if they are dating partners.

You would think someone would find the time and effort to actually put this into a game. Heck, I would play that. It would be interesting to see a game do an amazing job of portraying love and marriage.

I disagree with this.


Just like how I don't want my fighting game to be a realistic MMA depiction but I want fireballs and dragon-themed attacks and super speedy and stylish moves to be the norm, just like how I like the sword-fighting in my games to make the nearby MOUNTAINS feel nervous when blades are drawn, just like how I want my sci-fi to not be star treck but a story about drilling through the heavens so do I not want my romance games to be about mundane realistic real-relationship bullshit.


Fantasy, escapism and unattainable situations, those are the good things in games, ALL kinds of games.


Now, I don't support actually giving up on real life relationships or what have you for those things like how those Japanese people you mention have but at the same time I'd have zero interest in playing a game with "realistic relationship" as it's push point.


I want my dating events in games to be like those persona social link events! Full with cheesy over the top lines and hilarious!