Poll: Are gamers today too self entitiled?

[Dragoon]

Oh come on now is it really that bad? Why comment on another one of these threads if your tired of seeing them? I just wanted to have a nice civilized discussion about the topic, not a lecture on where and what to post. No one's making you read these and all your doing is sparking a dispute, just because you dont like seeing something.

Just let 'us people' discuss the topic while you go and do something else, we stay happy, you stay happy and everyone is happy.

But I am discussing it with you. I'm discussing how boring and silly it is, and how virtually everyone is sick to death of talking about it, and how you would have been well served to post in one of the 8,000 existing threads on the topic if you were desperate to have your voice heard.

This is what discussion sounds like, guy. It's not always rounds of polite applause, and people solemnly intoning "Well said, old chap" whilst tipping their monocles towards you. If you're going to maintain your freedom to post redundant topics, I'm going to maintain my freedom to hang around your thread and tell you how exhausting it is.

Okay fair enough, I'm sorry I posted about an obviously overused topic. As you can tell from my post count I'm not a very active poster so I had no idea that this topic was done to death. But after not posting for so long and then getting abused when I do it kinda makes me feel bad, I've never had anything like this on The Escapist forums before and it just seems kind of harsh like I've done something terrible.

We all know that some topics are more used than others but people need to just accept it's going to happen instead of abusing people. I like reputable frequent posters like Daystar Clarion who just post their opinion anyway and actually discuss.

 

[Dragoon]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Okay fair enough, I'm sorry I posted about an obviously overused topic. As you can tell from my post count I'm not a very active poster so I had no idea that this topic was done to death. But after not posting for so long and then getting abused when I do it kinda makes me feel bad, I've never had anything like this on The Escapist forums before and it just seems kind of harsh like I've done something terrible.

We all know that some topics are more used than others but people need to just accept it's going to happen instead of abusing people. I like reputable frequent posters like Daystar Clarion who just post their opinion anyway and actually discuss.

Well, it's been a heated topic. You've got your Das Boots and your Psicats up there using it as a soap box from which to call people names, and without exception every entitlement thread turned into a flame/troll bonanza by the 2nd page. So it's not like you started a thread on your favorite ice cream and everyone jumped down your throat. You picked a highly controversial topic, and took a highly unpopular position on it to open things up.

Besides, we can't all be Daystar Clarion. He's the George Clooney of the Escapist.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written?

Of course you have the "right" to issue demands. This is not a constitutional issue. Unless the gamers in question are marching into Bioware's offices holding a gun, they can issue as many crazy demands as they want.

 

[TehCookie]

Definitely. Since pretty much if you don't bend over for the company you're considered entitled. I'm an extremely entitled gamer, if I buy a game I believe I should be entitled to own my copy.

I just hate being lumped in with the gamers that think they are entitled to a new ending because they didn't like the other one.

 

[endtherapture]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

Gaming is a more interactive medium than books so you feel more involved in it. I didn't like the ending to the Harry Potter books, and the Darren Shan ending was a total mind fuck, but I was okay with that. I'm also okay with the vast majority of bad game endings. I just shrug and move on. However I was attached to the ME3 ending because I was attached to most of the game before it, my decisions were shaping the story up to the point of the ending, therefore that's why I want it changed. I have no decisions to make in a book, I'm reading someone elses imagination and story hence people are less pissed off.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Now in comparison, a big name game will be expected to offer around 100+ hours of gametime, and if a game doesn't offer that people would tend to be upset with the developer since they didn't deliver in an area that had such high standards. Compare that to 20 years ago, if you bought an RPG and it lasted maybe 10-20 hours, it would still be considered a good buy since that was a standard runtime of the time.

What? This is just straight up nonsense. Ultima, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Baldur's Gate...the list goes on and on. The average length for big name, old school RPGs has always been somewhere between 40 and 100 hours. Some of the really sprawling ones, like Daggerfall, can climb into the many 100's of hours, depending on how thorough you decide to be.

There are certainly some examples you could've come up with to support your argument, but the length of classic RPGs was NOT one of them.

 

[Dragoon]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

Gaming is a more interactive medium than books so you feel more involved in it. I didn't like the ending to the Harry Potter books, and the Darren Shan ending was a total mind fuck, but I was okay with that. I'm also okay with the vast majority of bad game endings. I just shrug and move on. However I was attached to the ME3 ending because I was attached to most of the game before it, my decisions were shaping the story up to the point of the ending, therefore that's why I want it changed. I have no decisions to make in a book, I'm reading someone elses imagination and story hence people are less pissed off.

Yeah that's a valid point, I don't really have anything against changing the ending it's more about how people went about demanding the change. I dunno it just seemed wrong to me, the way it came across was like a toddler screaming because it couldn't get its own way, but I don't really know how else it could of been done.

 

[Fishyash]

You're obviously going to say that people are entitled if you listen to every idiot who is providing no solution to the problem.

Ignore them, and viola! No "entitlement" being thrown around.

The problems that people are complaining about are nothing perfectly legitimate. It is actually rather silly to dismiss a complaint under 'entitlement'. It's nothing but a cop out.

For exmaple, posts like this:

Indeed. It also strikes me as funny that Dark Souls got an internet petition to be made. Then, when gamers get what they wanted, they aren't happy with the way it's being done. So, a new petition, to change the game they're getting because of a petition (which hasn't been released yet), is now circulating.

How can you say that we aren't being entitled?

I will quickly adress this issue that you think goes under 'entitlement'.

You either were one of the VERY lucky people to have played a game with GFWL on it without problems or you seriously don't have a clue how one little program can fuck up a game for you.

...IF you get to even play the game.

 

[Savagezion]

People need to understand one conscept. Consumers rule the market, thus consumers are entitled. It's their opinions that shape the market. Entitled isn't an evil thing. It is simply part of being a person with money to spend. You are entitled to demand things for you money, as that is the entire point of "worth".

Civ4 quote:
"Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it."

Welcome to capitalism, where consumers are entitled, and that isn't a bad thing. It is the fundamental principle the entire market is based on. So, I voted yes but I stress that isn't a bad thing. Its PR stuff for companies wanting to avoid responsibility.

 

[endtherapture]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

Gaming is a more interactive medium than books so you feel more involved in it. I didn't like the ending to the Harry Potter books, and the Darren Shan ending was a total mind fuck, but I was okay with that. I'm also okay with the vast majority of bad game endings. I just shrug and move on. However I was attached to the ME3 ending because I was attached to most of the game before it, my decisions were shaping the story up to the point of the ending, therefore that's why I want it changed. I have no decisions to make in a book, I'm reading someone elses imagination and story hence people are less pissed off.

Yeah that's a valid point, I don't really have anything against changing the ending it's more about how people went about demanding the change. I dunno it just seemed wrong to me, the way it came across was like a toddler screaming because it couldn't get its own way, but I don't really know how else it could of been done.

It's cos massive corporations are so unwilling to listen, especially when they have your money. You have to shout and scream like children. It would've been worse if people were wanting the ending to something like CoD changed though.

 

[Rawne1980]

"Entitled", that word has lost all meaning.

It was a pathetic attempt at an insult the first time it was brought up and now just makes some of us cringe a little bit whenever anybody says it.

I'll tell you what i'm entitled to shall I?

I'm entitled to spend my money on anything I want so if developers and publishers want that money then they need to stop trying to force tasteless, mediocre arse nuggets into my PC/console while pretending it's a game.

Then they need to stop using that other beaten donkey bollock of a phrase, "artistic integrity", when someone complains about said arse nugget.

The most amusing thing about debates that spring up about this is the amount of people running to the defence of a multi billion pound company that thinks sod all about them.

I'll tell you what else i'm "entitled" to do...

If I get a game and don't like it I can take it back to where I bought it, lie through my left testicle that it doesn't seem to work in my machine, and get my damn money back. And that's how I magically turned Mass Effect 3 into Silent Hill HD Collection ... and a bottle of whiskey because SH:HD was a bit cheaper.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Anyone who starts an "Entitlement" thread needs to take a shot in the crotch every time the word "Entitlement" comes up on these forums.

Fixed that for you. Especially the ones who don't seem to know what the word means, and are just playing buzzword bingo. Not mentioning any names, of course...

Hey now, if someone just mentions Piracy or MovieBob, I might win this round!
Almost have a diagonal filled in...almost there..

 

[him over there]

Not really, I mean some of the stuff we ***** about is pretty stupid or outlandish and while we may not have an inherent right to it we have an inherent right to try and get it by bitching. I really wouldn't want the latter to be taken away either because then it becomes "What? you don't want to pay $120 a game? silly consumers without us developers there is no game. Regardless of what we make you owe us."

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Yes and no in my opinion. On one hand you've got gamers who complain and ***** about every little thing. But on the other we have gamers becoming wiser consumers who are not willing to allow themselves to be taken advantage of by companies.

 

[Stormz]

So if I'm passionate about something and want to voice my opinions on the matter I'm entitled?

Sorry that I'm not happy about Day one DLC/plot essential DLC, ALways online DRM, Blatent lying from publishers/game developers, Dumbing down of games for the masses. Call me entitled all you want, but I'm going to voice my opinions and no one is going to stop me by throwing around such a meaningless word. The reason nothing will ever change and will in fact continue to get worse is because people aren't raising their voices enough, and some even believe they need to be the poor poor publishers white knights.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

Demand it be rewritten? No. Request it? Wish it? Debate it? Rag on it? Spit on it? Piss and moan for months? Rage on forums and slamming Bioware? Yep! We pay for a product. The product sucks. We get to complain.

The problem is not that gamers are entitled. The problem is that devs are just now finding out that we are customers and consumers and not just fans. Gaming is basically the only industry where the consumers act like they got beaten wife syndrome. No matter how much the devs and publishers fuck us over we come back for more.

I for one greatly hope that this is changing. If they want my money they better make products I want to buy.

And specifically about the ME3 ending: you don't get to hide behind "artistic integrity and vision" when the last words of your game is "Buy DLC!". That's not how it works.

As for GFWL in Dark Souls. I don't really care about Dark Souls as such. Seems like such a tedious game. But if they use GFWL there is no chance in hell I'll check it out to see if I'm right. Might be the best game made. Don't care. Not falling for GFWL again.

 

[neversleep]

I'm going to copy my response I gave in the other thread: which was this

well one it's the internet. Seriously go on any site, any topic anime, manga, music movies anything and people will be bitching.
two: as a gamer we have to invest effort into our medium so if we feel like the game is bad we feel even more cheated
three: videogames are expensive
four: videogames as a medium has a worse case of sequelitis than the movie branch, this means that alot of people build expectations upon previous entries and get enraged with every change compared to the old games.

we have more reasons to *****

that being said.
Jesus fucking christ I wanted to punch every person making the bazillionth topic on the ending of freaking mass effect 3. I haven't played it yet so I can't really judge. But for almost a whole week the whole first page (and some days the second) to be filled with nothing but bitching about mass effect was a new low.

So yeah maybe we've just started acting like whining pussies more.

BUT I also want to add. The industry knows will pay and is pulling more and more dirty tricks to rustle the money from our pockets. It sorta kicked off with the monthly fee's with mmo's. Now it's selling incomplete games and selling the rest as DLC and other stuff like that.

I'm sort of torn on the issue, but there's no denying a lot of us are just a bunch of whining babies.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Sometimes, but in the situations you've mentioned?


The ME3 ending was fucking awful.

People deserve to play Dark Souls using a system that doesn't completely break the game.

Yes the ME3 ending was bad but do gamers really have the right to demand it to be re-written? It's kind of like buying a book, reading it and finding it really good up until the ending which sucked and then writing to the writer demanding they re-write it, it just doesn't happen but it seems to be okay for gamers to do this.

As for the GFWL thing I can understand that, I've personally never had a problem with it but many people do apparently, so asking for it to be changed is okay in my books.

wait what? demanding? is there someone/group that is marching into bioware's office holding a gun to them making them fix it?

unless i don't know something, then hell no, there is no "entitlement" issues, we paid for a product, we can raise as much hell as we want about it, this is a capitalistic market, where consumers ARE entitled.

 

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

Gamers are just as entitled as everyone else. Pretty much everyone who lives in a modern society with modern technology has a sense of entitlement about too many things. We demand perfection and instant gratification. The anonymity of the internet has unleashed humanity's capacity to whine about the really unimportant things in life (in the grand scheme of things). Some complaints are truly legitimate, others are completely ridiculous and cringeworthy. Gamers are particular vocal in their complaints. Often however, they are also completely irrational about issues. My particular pet peeve is those who 'boycott' or badmouth developers/publishers all the time. Prejudice is wrong all the time; I won't deny myself an experience by expecting it to be bad.

People are of course entitled to their opinions, but people also need perspective!

Back in my day we blew the dust from our cartridges without any moaning how times have changed!