Poll: Are relationships a 99/1 kind of thing?

[DoctorObviously]

TL;DR version below.

I kind of wrote this quickly because I'm a bit pissed off. I was in an argument with a friend the other day. I believe that, in a relationship, one of each party should throw a bone at each other, back and forth, until you both know enough about each other and both feel comfortable to have a relationship together. So, for a blunt example, when I invite the girl I think it's only fair she invites me back (if it's a week later or two weeks later is negligible) but the point remains that I think it should be a consistent balance between who invites who .

My friend, on the other hand, disagrees. "You are too inexperienced in relationships." he says. "You can only expect that behaviour from her when you are in a relationship. You're not in one right now. Your opinion would only work in a fair world." . He believes that, instead of throwing a bone, the male should be the one throwing an entire arm. Just because "it just works that way.". He thinks that I should continue chasing her and that I cannot expect for her to invite me. Again, because it just "works that way.". I told him that, surely, he was generalizing ALL women, right? Sure, some like the guys who 'chase' them, some don't, right? Well, no, he was just talking about 80% of all women. We were arguing for hours about this. "If she accepts your invitations that's proof enough that she likes you." he says. It came to the point where I just said to him: "You know, dogs chase their masters too, you know. To get that little biscuit. whereupon he answered: "You really shouldn't see it that way.". I must confess that I don't have experience when it comes to relationships whatsoever. But if he is right that would be such BULLSH*T.

I'm in a situation right now where I've met a cute person about five months ago. We were having an incredible time together. After a good while, I developed a crush for her. In the first couple of months where I got to know her she tells me she's working on her thesis, so I offer to help her out. In a week I completely corrected it and she has had an A for it. Then, shortly after she begins to change and it doesn't take her long to pull a complete 180° on her behaviour. I had hoped this would be temporarily, and on the first good day she had I told her what I felt for her. While it "didn't leave her cold" it didn't change her behaviour. We're still in touch, but not nearly as much as we used to. What was once one message per day has changed to one or two a week. It's been a month since our last get-together. I invited her and she hasn't invited me back yet. So I'm holding back, and according to my friend she is holding back too, because I have to throw her yet another bone.

TL;DR: I say relationships should be a back and forth 'every party gives 50/50-thing, my friend thinks a 99/1 is more suitable. I disagree and give an abridged telling of my situation, third paragraph. I'd also like to know how many people agree with me or my friend, he will be watching this thread.

 

[Teoes]

Yes, women give a shit. Yes you may not be chasing the right woman if that's the way it's going, but yes you need to have patience for these things - it's not a race. Yes you're likely to get some indignant ladies in here thanks to sweeping generalisations.

 

[DoctorObviously]

Yes, women give a shit. Yes you may not be chasing the right woman if that's the way it's going, but yes you need to have patience for these things - it's not a race. Yes you're likely to get some indignant ladies in here thanks to sweeping generalisations.

You may be right about the generalisations. The title of the thread may offend people (which is not my purpose) so that's why I changed it.

 

[mmmikey]

He's kinda right. You are the interested party, there's usually more effort you'll have to expend no matter what gender you are if you're the pursuer. If I'm being frank I think guys have to expend more effort to get interest returned than women do. But I don't think it's to the point he is making it out to be.

If I had to call it like I see it based on your story she doesn't want to be with you, at least not in the way you want it to be. Most people take the easy way on this and just avoid the person and take forever to get back around.If she liked you in return there probably shouldn't really be any chase or grand gestures or balance sheet that you have to uphold to have things advance.

But I'd argue that you'd probably be unhappy if you had to go through as much effort as your friend suggests you do to get your crush's affection. In the wide world of single women there's someone who will meet you halfway, it sucks starting over from square one again but in the end I'd say it's better than being in a lopsided relationship that might leave you feeling resentful.

 

[kurokotetsu]

It is a societal thing. Men are expected to do some chasing before the relationship starts formaly. Maybe iut shouldn't be that way, but I think that it is. Most women have been shown that the man interested in them chases (though the actions of men like your firend, media and probably by adivce given by their female friends) and if he gives up then he really wasn't worth it. Yes I think that you approach is healthier, as both should show interest, but oen of the few dates that I had fell through because I left the ball in her court (told her to tell me when she wanted us to get together again), even after a mostly good date. Yeah, your approach seems more egalitarian, but the sad truth is that that is not how things work in our modern world (there is the posibility that it is remanent of of primate days, as males court females in most spcies, not th other way round). You are expected by a good number of partners to cahse, so if you don't chase at first you may lose potential partners, even if it is unfair.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

TL;DR version below.

I kind of wrote this quickly because I'm a bit pissed off. I was in an argument with a friend the other day. I believe that, in a relationship, one of each party should throw a bone at each other, back and forth, until you both know enough about each other and both feel comfortable to have a relationship together. So, for a blunt example, when I invite the girl I think it's only fair she invites me back (if it's a week later or two weeks later is negligible) but the point remains that I think it should be a consistent balance between who invites who .

My friend, on the other hand, disagrees. "You are too inexperienced in relationships." he says. "You can only expect that behaviour from her when you are in a relationship. You're not in one right now. Your opinion would only work in a fair world." . He believes that, instead of throwing a bone, the male should be the one throwing an entire arm. Just because "it just works that way.". He thinks that I should continue chasing her and that I cannot expect for her to invite me. Again, because it just "works that way.". I told him that, surely, he was generalizing ALL women, right? Sure, some like the guys who 'chase' them, some don't, right? Well, no, he was just talking about 80% of all women. We were arguing for hours about this. "If she accepts your invitations that's proof enough that she likes you." he says. It came to the point where I just said to him: "You know, dogs chase their masters too, you know. To get that little biscuit. whereupon he answered: "You really shouldn't see it that way.". I must confess that I don't have experience when it comes to relationships whatsoever. But if he is right that would be such BULLSH*T.

I'm in a situation right now where I've met a cute person about five months ago. We were having an incredible time together. After a good while, I developed a crush for her. In the first couple of months where I got to know her she tells me she's working on her thesis, so I offer to help her out. In a week I completely corrected it and she has had an A for it. Then, shortly after she begins to change and it doesn't take her long to pull a complete 180° on her behaviour. I had hoped this would be temporarily, and on the first good day she had I told her what I felt for her. While it "didn't leave her cold" it didn't change her behaviour. We're still in touch, but not nearly as much as we used to. What was once one message per day has changed to one or two a week. It's been a month since our last get-together. I invited her and she hasn't invited me back yet. So I'm holding back, and according to my friend she is holding back too, because I have to throw her yet another bone.

TL;DR: I say relationships should be a back and forth 'every party gives 50/50-thing, my friend thinks a 99/1 is more suitable. I disagree and give an abridged telling of my situation, third paragraph. I'd also like to know how many people agree with me or my friend, he will be watching this thread.

1. Your friend is more or less correct. This isn't necessarily a universal truth and everyone is an individual, but it's true often enough to be viewed as a good rule of thumb. Most often, it will be expected that you are the pursuer in romantic situations. Just try and be a sensible pursuer and not a creepy/relentless pursuer.

2. It doesn't sound like that girl likes you very much. I'd cut my losses if I were you.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Relationships aren't about giving and taking.

It's about wanting to make the other person happy and feel loved, however, these feelings obviously must be reciprocated for there to even be a relationship.

It's not a business transaction where you have to give X amount of Y to reach a quota.

 

[StriderShinryu]

When it comes to the courting part of a relationship, there generally is one giving and receiving. Once in a relationship, sure, it should be more of a give and take (though to assume it's always some sort of weird direct one to one trade is unrealistic).

Now, as to the OP's later situation, it sounds like there's more going on there to me but the general rule I go by is that if you're interested, you have to show that you're interested. If you're not sure what's going on, then maybe things have changed and all you can do is ask. If you're not comfortable in doing that, then you should probably back off and give some distance.

Edit: I picked Yes for the poll, but it's not because I feel it's because the OP is stupid. I really do think it's more a mix of not being experienced enough and maybe lacking a little realism.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I think OP misunderstood your friend. You were saying what you thought should happen. He was saying what does happen. You are both correct in my opinion- at the moment society dictates males do more of the work, but in an ideal world it would be a much more even balance.
However if a girl isn't inviting you out, consider for a second that she doesn't want a relationship with you...

 

[ItouKaiji]

Relationships aren't about giving and taking.

It's about wanting to make the other person happy and feel loved, however, these feelings obviously must be reciprocated for there to even be a relationship.

It's not a business transaction where you have to give X amount of Y to reach a quota.

This so much. Going into a relationship expecting some kind of quid pro quo arrangement is going to leave you disappointed most of the time and it's definitely not something to build a relationship off of. It has nothing to do with some kind of imaginary chase or whatever, if you really like someone then it won't matter who is asking who, because you'll just want to spend time with them.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I won't speak about the nature of relationships in general. There IS giving and receiving, though I find that hard to quantify. Regarding your personal scenario, I am of the philosophy that chasing people for romantic feedback works best in romcoms. In real life I'd have to quote this horrible phrase-turned-bestseller-turned-movie "(S)he's just not that into you". If she wanted to be with you, she'd be with you. It's a no-brainer.

 

[SOCIALCONSTRUCT]

one of each party should throw a bone at each other, back and forth,

Step 1: Stop throwing bones at people.

He believes that, instead of throwing a bone, the male should be the one throwing an entire arm.

Men pursue women and generally not visa versa. There are of course exceptions that prove the rule.

After a good while, I developed a crush for her. In the first couple of months where I got to know her she tells me she's working on her thesis, so I offer to help her out. In a week I completely corrected it and she has had an A for it.

You missed your window. Don't try to buy sex with favors or being nice or convincing yourself that you want an LTR. Not for any moralistic reasons but simply because it doesn't work and is actually counterproductive. You can't buy attraction or negotiate with it, it is a biological, sub-rational drive. It comes off as needy if you're trying to finagle your way into pseudo marriage because it's what you think she wants, ultimately so you can have sex with her. It's OK to want to have sex with a girl just for its own sake - it doesn't have to be some source of existential meaning.

You never mentioned your age but from your mention of a thesis (and posting on a gaming forum), I'm going to guess that you're really too young to even be thinking about LTRs. Most girls in their early 20s are not very interested in LTRs and neither are most men if they are really being honest with themselves (most are not). Focus on improving yourself, being outgoing, be more direct about what you want from women and that should be a good start.

But if he is right that would be such BULLSH*T.

I say relationships should be a back and forth 'every party gives 50/50-thing

I can tell you're going to be in for a rough ride. The world isn't built out of fairness or any other morally pristine construct of human imagination. You're starting from the premise about how you think the world should work and trying to impose that vision on reality. You have this backwards. What you should do is observe how the world actually works without any moralistic filters and then plan accordingly. Putting angel's or devil's wings on observations hinders real understanding.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

relationships are relationships. There's really no clear-cut, consistent formula to them. That goes for having friends as well as romantic endeavors. Granted there's social norms and those tend to hold sway in various ways and have varying amounts of influence. But even those obviously aren't concrete and I think eventually you just come to a point where you just...spin the wheel, I guess. See how things come out.

Some people say that you simply have to learn to be more direct. Well, I'd normally agree but I've found that such an approach works as it's intended when all other things are "equal" so to speak. It's kinda like innuendo to me. My friends, who are more attractive than I am in all honesty, can get away with pulling a bit more innuendo and sex-related things into their flirting or conversations with women because they're more physically attractive. Sure, if they go overboard they get shut down just like I would, but the difference is the distance before they hit 'overboard' seems to be wider than mine is, and, at least from the observations I've made, their physical appearance is a factor in where the bar is set.

It's not that those women were shallow (I think), just that, even putting myself very inexpertly into their shoes, I think I'd find getting hit on in a slightly more raunchy way easier to ignore from an attractive guy than from an unattractive one. It's understandable and I think it works both ways.

Being direct, to me, works in kind of the same way. You have to be pretty sure you have something going, something that's there between you, just something in your favor, before you just wanna go in for the "I'd really like to date you exclusively" bit. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. Again, it's spinning the wheel and seeing what happens. If you're good at reading signals and you know that person well enough, then sometimes you can hedge your bets. But if you don't know them well enough to have at least some kind of idea of how they will react (how they WILL react, not how you HOPE they react), then to me it's probably not a good idea to be taking the direct route to begin with. To me at least, while there's very little that's concrete about relationships and making them, you still don't go in blind and blunt unless you KNOW you have something going for you.

In your specific case, OP, gonna have to agree with others. Sounds like she's just not interested. Probably best to move on or at least shift your perspective where she's concerned. Either move along or get her back into your headspace as a friend and learn to be okay with that.

 

[skywolfblue]

1. Your friend is more or less correct. This isn't necessarily a universal truth and everyone is an individual, but it's true often enough to be viewed as a good rule of thumb. Most often, it will be expected that you are the pursuer in romantic situations. Just try and be a sensible pursuer and not a creepy/relentless pursuer.

2. It doesn't sound like that girl likes you very much. I'd cut my losses if I were you.

^ That.

DoctorObviously, your friend is correct. Relationships aren't an even exchange, you'll often have to put way more into it then you'll receive in turn.

I had hoped this would be temporarily, and on the first good day she had I told her what I felt for her. While it "didn't leave her cold" it didn't change her behaviour. We're still in touch, but not nearly as much as we used to. What was once one message per day has changed to one or two a week. It's been a month since our last get-together. I invited her and she hasn't invited me back yet. So I'm holding back, and according to my friend she is holding back too, because I have to throw her yet another bone.

It's not so much her not inviting you or throwing you a bone that's the problem here. From this it sounds as if from her lack of desire to carry on the conversation that she's just plain not interested.

Be graceful, and gently move on to someone else.

 

[Foolery]

99 to 1 sounds like a shitty deal. The thing is, it shouldn't be a deal. Being with someone is a bonus in life. People are like islands, perfectly healthy and complete on their own. And you can certainly build bridges between them. But if one island refuses to put in it's fair share of resources, the bridge will fall apart. Happens all the time. Mutual interest is key.

 

[Blow_Pop]

The way it works as someone else put it, is the persuer does a lot more than the pursued until a relationship is established. Realistically. I have done my share of pursuits and been pursued enough times that it has actually evened out.
The thing I have found that people (in my personal experience, it is guys who do this but I won't generalise and say they Are the only ones) don't understand the fine line between pursuit and creepy. Generally, if someone isn't talking to you, or showing interest (like your above example), you should back off(unless have said that they are really busy with school/work).
I clicked yes in your poll because you really seem not to grasp that pursuit puts more effort initially than pursued. And your friend is an idiot if that's honestly how he sees a regular relationship going.

 

[Yopaz]

In your case it sounds like that might be the case. However that isn't 80% of all relationships.

Sometimes one party is more invested than the other. A friend of mine broke up with her boyfriend because she felt she wasn't as good to him as he was to her and that she was basically "receiving" more than she was giving. Now it might not sound like a good example since it's more or less what you've gotten yourself into, but it shows that some aren't happy with such an arrangement.

With this one... consider it a lesson learnt, it sounds like she used you, just cut off all contact with her.

 

[Rblade]

I do think that making an effort as the guy is generally accepted as standard. Especially at the start. But if she is into you she should be at the very least be seeking contact with you (whats app,phone, whatever). I think there is no harm in the guy being the person to set up the first couple of dates, acting decisivly and with innitiative are generally regarded as good traits so I wouldn't let a good thing die "because she didn't invite me back after the first date" but on the other hand if that is the kind of looking for maby you should. Relationships aren't a generalisable thing, it's more of a whatever floats your particular boat affair.

 

[lacktheknack]

If you're interested in a girl, you'll put in as much effort as you deem fit.

If the girl is interested in you, she'll put in as much effort as she deems fit.

If you both are interested, you'll end up in a relationship.

If you're willing to call her, but don't because "it's her turn", or have had enough of it all but call her anyways "because I should", you're doing it wrong. Very wrong.

Fairness and balance has almost nothing to do to it, which tends to be a bit devastating to analytic minds (which is also my pet theory as to why the internet denizens, who tend to be overly analytic, have relationship issues).