Poll: Are scholarships designated for African-Americans racist?

[onikaze26]

yes yes it is racist, if there was a scholarship for white students then there would be lawsuits, but i think we need to be the bigger men (or women) here, if we call foul every time we see racism just because they do likewise then all we do is lock ourselves into a self defeating cycle, this wont go away until we learn to let the little things slide. its stupid yes, and in the end its going to cause racism not ease it but hey, people are stupid and this isn't any more stupidity then we all see on a daily basis anyways.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

Yeah that's racism to me. Racism can be both negative or positive but it's always bad.

Also, can't you people call 'African-american' people just black people like the rest of the world does? It's not like black coloured/dark skinned people only come out of Africa. I find it such a stupid fake political term.

Oh btw , I'm not a citizen of the United States so.. could someone explain what scholarships are exactly?

 

[Talshere]

Depends.......If I offer a scholarship for a Caucasian student who displayed x good qualities and x qualities of leadership, would anyone, and I do mean ANYONE call me down for it, saying everyone deserved a chance at it. If the answer is yes then its hypocritical bullshit, another example of 1 way racism, and they can go to hell.

 

[firedfns13]

Affirmative Action is racism, and that's why I'll never, ever accept a Hispanic student scholarship. I don't give a damn if I have to actually work to survive while I'm in school, my principles are worth a little less sleep and earning what I have.

I like you; I don't agree with the scholarships because I have jack and shit, but I would definitely take the money if its their, and I actually urge my friends to even when we're talking about why they shouldn't exist. College is expensive enough as it is, there's no need to drag everyone else with me into debt.

 

[drisky]

Well it might be easy to argue that it is racist there is still a good reason that it exists. The cycle of poverty keeps generations form living up to their potential, but there is some thing that separates some lower class blacks form lower class whites. A friend of mine was only one of about 10 of his high school in a poor black part of Boston. The reason so few of them was as he told be, education is "the white way out". Its not a fundamental difference its a social stigma. Specialized scholarships help give these kids a reason to feel that there are better choices then trying to join a gang. This stigma is only true of certain parts of america but scholarships help to put an importance on education.

 

[capnpupster]

Sure they're racist. Whether they should be changed or not depends on where the money is coming from though. If it's a government grant then it certainly should change. The point is to give a hand to promising young people who would otherwise not have the means to a higher education, but that can't be determined by ethnicity. On the other hand, if it's a privately funded scholarship then the people who are putting up the money are perfectly justified in whatever eligibility terms they like. These scholarships are usually started by people who struggled themselves and would like to help people who are in circumstances similar to their own. You and I don't have to agree with their requirements. We do have to respect that they are trying to help people who are in a tough situation.

tldr: Government grants need to stop this BS, private scholarships can do whatever they want.

 

[Lawyer105]

I see, so you believe in equal treatment in regards to poverty, that's fine. I believe that too, but this isn't about that. So don't throw your red herrings around.

How can this NOT be about poverty/poor? The only reason to issue a scholarship is because some deserving student doesn't have the money to pay for studying. Don't avoid the issue.

We've also got benefits for people with disabilities etc., why shouldn't we have one for ethnic minorities? Take at who runs the world, the white, straight male. It's been like that for generations, why shouldn't ethnic minorities get the chance to have the same benefits they did? And before you bring up "Oh but Barack Obama is the most powerful blah blah blah I couldn't care less.", that's a good case study of the fact that they are minorities.

A disabled person is just a person with different physical/mental abilities from "normal" people. By throwing the race card down here, you're assuming that blacks/whites/latinos etc. have inherently different physical/mental abilities. This might come as a news flash to you, but they don't really. I'm sure the KKK would like us all to believe that blacks have smaller brains than whites (and there's even some studies that "prove" it) but it simply isn't true.

And you're not proposing that racial minorities get the same chance as everybody else. Putting them all together in the same pool and comparing a common talent (e.g. merit) would be "giving them the same chance". You're proposing to give them a BETTER chance - which is racist.

It's not just about Black people, it's about minorities everywhere, whether you're Mexican, poor, or have lost two limbs we want to give you the same chance those at the top have. What's wrong with that? That's not racist at all, you can say "Oh but it's racist against the white man."! Well the white man has these opportunities, the poor don't. If the white man happens to be poor, I reiterate, the poor don't.

Plenty is wrong with it. People are NOT the same. Would you like to have a 50IQ mouth-breather performing heart-surgery on you?? I sure as hell wouldn't.

And once again - where the hell does race come into it? If you have the ABILITY, you should get the chance, regardless of race. If you don't (or have less than other people) then they should get the chance before you - again, regardless of race.

I'd rather see the best qualified person getting ahead. I don't care whether it's a white male, or a quadriplegic black jewish female or whatever.

I used to live in South Africa. I've seen highly skilled, highly qualified people (who happened to be white and male) being forced to train people up so that those people (mostly black males) could be promoted over their heads. In most of the cases I directly observed (number is limited, but I'd rather trust direct observation that hearsay) those individuals ended up being incapable of fully performing the job... leading to the poor bastard underneath them having to do their job AS WELL AS a fair portion of their bosses job. Affirmative action is a miserable failure, so don't give me any of that BS!

So stop whining.

Stop acting like an idiot, and I'll stop calling you on it.

 

[Denamic]

Well, obviously.
It's targeting a race, hence it's racist.

 

[moretimethansense]

They are actually, there have been a few african americans denied scholerships on the grounds that they were white.

If they are dor people born in Africa then not racist but we all know that isn't who they are for they are exclusivly for black people regardless of weather they are from Africa or not.

Also am I the only one that finds the term African-American to be highly racist?
I mean not all africans are black, and not all those that are black are from Africa,
I've even seen/heard of people using the term for black people in England or worse Africa itself.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Equal rights and opportunities blah blah blah. Legislation of no discrimination of race blah blah blah. We've heard it all before. Point is, unless we eventually stop seeing ourselves as black, white or whatever then we aren't going to get any closer to getting rid of racism.

We have to combat discrimination on both ends.

 

[Sevre]

I see, so you believe in equal treatment in regards to poverty, that's fine. I believe that too, but this isn't about that. So don't throw your red herrings around.

How can this NOT be about poverty/poor? The only reason to issue a scholarship is because some deserving student doesn't have the money to pay for studying. Don't avoid the issue.

We've also got benefits for people with disabilities etc., why shouldn't we have one for ethnic minorities? Take at who runs the world, the white, straight male. It's been like that for generations, why shouldn't ethnic minorities get the chance to have the same benefits they did? And before you bring up "Oh but Barack Obama is the most powerful blah blah blah I couldn't care less.", that's a good case study of the fact that they are minorities.

A disabled person is just a person with different physical/mental abilities from "normal" people. By throwing the race card down here, you're assuming that blacks/whites/latinos etc. have inherently different physical/mental abilities. This might come as a news flash to you, but they don't really. I'm sure the KKK would like us all to believe that blacks have smaller brains than whites (and there's even some studies that "prove" it) but it simply isn't true.

And you're not proposing that racial minorities get the same chance as everybody else. Putting them all together in the same pool and comparing a common talent (e.g. merit) would be "giving them the same chance". You're proposing to give them a BETTER chance - which is racist.

It's not just about Black people, it's about minorities everywhere, whether you're Mexican, poor, or have lost two limbs we want to give you the same chance those at the top have. What's wrong with that? That's not racist at all, you can say "Oh but it's racist against the white man."! Well the white man has these opportunities, the poor don't. If the white man happens to be poor, I reiterate, the poor don't.

Plenty is wrong with it. People are NOT the same. Would you like to have a 50IQ mouth-breather performing heart-surgery on you?? I sure as hell wouldn't.

And once again - where the hell does race come into it? If you have the ABILITY, you should get the chance, regardless of race. If you don't (or have less than other people) then they should get the chance before you - again, regardless of race.

I'd rather see the best qualified person getting ahead. I don't care whether it's a white male, or a quadriplegic black jewish female or whatever.

I used to live in South Africa. I've seen highly skilled, highly qualified people (who happened to be white and male) being forced to train people up so that those people (mostly black males) could be promoted over their heads. In most of the cases I directly observed (number is limited, but I'd rather trust direct observation that hearsay) those individuals ended up being incapable of fully performing the job... leading to the poor bastard underneath them having to do their job AS WELL AS a fair portion of their bosses job. Affirmative action is a miserable failure, so don't give me any of that BS!

So stop whining.

Stop acting like an idiot, and I'll stop calling you on it.

It's truly amazing how you didn't read a single part of my post. You made one issue there which I haven't already defeated and that's the "50IQ" skit. That's why people go to college, so they can learn and improve. If they aren't capable they won't qualify, that's it.

Now I want you to go back and read my post again. And sit down and try to understand what I'm saying, you don't need a scholarship for that.

 

[EllEzDee]

The way i see it, it's like reparation.

 

[Therumancer]

I saw the other thread about racism and I just couldn't help myself. I specifically remember during the awards and scholarship assembly in High School there being at least 2 scholarships from African-American organizations, and their parameters for them were something along the lines of seeking an "African-American student who displayed x good qualities and x qualities of leadership."

My question to you is: Are scholarships like this scholarships fair, or are they racist?

My perspective is thus: I think we all know what happens when something that is marked as "designated for Caucasians"--it's hunted down and immediately protested and attacked until it's dismantled and its founders have apologized to at least 10 news organizations. No one would ever dare make a scholarship that favors white students, so how is it fair to have scholarships that favor black students?

And just as a disclaimer, I'm not saying we should go out and found a whole bunch of scholarships for white students in retaliation. I think any scholarship on either end is wrong. It just ticks me off that we condone it in this way just because we're afraid to open this Pandora's Box again.

At one time affirmitive action was nessicary and served a useful purpose. Whether people want to accept it or not, racism is pretty much dead in the USA. People like to think it still exists, especially seeing as it's a powerful political tool, and provides a conveinent scapegoat for a lot of bigger problems that are harder to address.

Understand that things will never be 50-50 black and white, or between any other groups. Simply put minority groups by their very nature are minorities. Right now we have minorities present throughout all rungs of society, and have a black guy leading the country, as well as people of all kinds of ethnicities in goverment offices accross the spectrum from humble local affairs, to powerful federal appointments.

I think the continued support of minority scholorship funds and similar programs sends the message that racism still exists as a major societal force. People look at things like that and think "that wouldn't be there if there wasn't a good reason for it". I think shutting things like this down will have long term benefits.

As far as outcries go, there is going to be one whenever some kind of social services that people (any group of people) use is discontinued.

I extend this arguement into all manner of affirmitive action matters as well. Truthfully I think what remains of racism is largely fueled by the affirmitive action itself.

Outside of the arena of scholorships, look at property issues. Right now a member of the white majority can get in all kinds of trouble if they refuse to sell property (land, a house, etc...) to a minority. The issue of "whitewashing" neightborhoods is an old one. In comparison those arguements do not apply when your dealing with people in say a Chinatown district only being willing to sell property to ethnic Chinese. While it will open a can of worms for some people (and I've never dealt with it personally) you also apparently see this with Jewish businessmen where in many cases they will only trade land and business ownership with other Jews.

The point here being that laws and policies will be exploited as part of human nature. When you have the majority getting curb stomped by ethnic minorities in business dealings due to dual standards being enforced, that leads to bad blood. Someone who wants to buy a building in Chinatown that's on the market and sees it sold to someone making a less favorable offer due to the fact that they are of the same ethnicity, is probably going to walk away from that with some rather negative opinions. If that kind of thing keeps happening it turns into reactive bigotry (oftentimes mistaken for racism) and an "us against them" mentality.

Basically racism in the US is on the ropes, to down it as far as it can go these are the kinds of problems that actually need to be addressed. The big obstacle here is of course political because the perception of persecution by the majority helps to generate solidarity among minorities and the forming of more tight-knit communities. Those communities can then be directed as "voting blocks" by politicians. A lot of minority leaders operate a lot like mercenaries and due to the way this kind of voting can be directed, literally sell their services. This is one of the reasons why you can clearly hear how the "Black Vote" or "Latino Vote" is going to go, because if certain leaders endorse a cantidate the majority of the people of a given ethnicity are going to follow their lead. This is not a good thing (and an intentionally simplistic example), and while there are individuals who vote their own way, the way things turn out here is exactly why a lot of minority politicians feel the need to maintain an illusion of racism and persecution, without it, their importance fades.

 

[Vryyk]

I'd say there's no problem in a course in say 'black history', covering the changes in black rights and culture over the past couple of huundred years, however, it certainly should not be limited to only black students. No I'm not going to say African American, either, even in America, all blacks are not both African and American, and show me someone offended by black and I'll show you an idiot.

Should we restrict teaching of Caesar's rule to the Italians or teaching the age of the pyramids to only egyptian students?

In the end, we still have racism, but in the majority it's seen as unacceptable, tho of course it's still out there, just better hidden than it was. However, as far as I know, any black students out there don't have living relatives who were slaves, so we don't owe them individually anything. Equality should be enough for anyone, and I'll repeat, I'm not against the course as such, just the limitation on applicants, why don't they want white or other students to learn how blacks were treated? (I know that's not what is behind it, but that's how it would be seen if it was reversed.)

I don't even need to say anything. This gent summed up my whole philosophy on the matter.

 

[lightningmagurn]

I remember hearing a poem on NPR (I think) one day, where a young girl from New York was talking about "white devils" in association with 19th century America. It was the winner of a city-wide contest, IIRC.

Anyway..., my personal opinion is that racism will disappear when race no longer matters. This is one of the ways in which race still matters, and thus is prolonging the existence of racism.

The scholarship exists, I believe, because there is a larger percentage of African American families in the lower rungs of monetary status than of white families (whether due to discrimination or due to the climb from poverty to solvency taking many generations and lots of hard work; YMMV) - in effect, it is assuaging a common problem. Nonetheless, I would be happier with such things if they were directed instead to "impoverished students" - but America still has a heaping helping of white guilt to work through, so I understand where the specifics come from.

While you make a fair point, I feel that you are being too hopeful. Race will always matter because people have a hard time looking at other people with different skin colors and not noticing. This is even more prevalent in areas that have almost entirely one race, i.e. mine and almost all of the world.

 

[mykalwane]

Yes it is racial, and shouldn't matter any more then the white only scholarships. The only problem I have seen, is that being for white only scholarships isn't ok. It is people giving money to who they feel like it, that is why there are some crazy scholarships out there. There is a ginger scholarship, there is a height scholarship, there are graduating early scholarships.

The only problem is for anyone who is average they aren't included at all. There are scholarships for the weakest and the strongest. I might not care for the fact that the average person are excluded, but it isn't my money. Its others money so they can do how they feel like when they spend there money.

Not getting a scholarship can be an advantage as well as getting one. For example a friend of mine who got scholarships out the ass to Texas Tech. He had trouble paying for the small things that the scholarships didn't pay for, getting into debt. At one point he lost his scholarships because his grade point wasn't high enough because he was trying to get out of debt for the books he needed. The guy still is in debt and will be working for years doing window washing to pay off an education he never got to have. Me on the other hand didn't get any scholarship had to go to a cheap community college where I am only one class away from my Associate's degree(which am finishing up currently). Without getting any scholarships, I am further ahead on my degree then he is.

I know this isn't always true, but that is how it has worked out for me. So maybe it will work out for people who didn't get a scholarship.

 

[Timbydude]

Ok you do understand that scholarships and college acceptance are given to QUALIFIED miniorites right? They aren't given to random street kids. Its not there fault that the people who beieve that affirmative action is evil think they got there only because of the colour of their skin.

Most top colleges report that 80-90% of applicants are definitely qualified (as in, they would be able to complete the necessary work if they were accepted).

So, yes, the people who are accepted are part of that 80-90%. They won't admit a minority if they think he/she is going to fail out, obviously.

But at the same time, affirmative action gives acceptances to minorities who are not as qualified as applicants of other races. A white student who made an A average in high school will often lose out to a Hispanic/black applicant with a B+/A- average, all other things equal. That's the whole problem with it. You should accept the most qualified students for your college, not just some people who pass the minimum requirements and have a different skin color.

 

[aradin24]

Racism implies a sense of superiority over other races. I don't think this is the case with scholarships. Or, to quote Wikipedia, "Racism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race." Just "targeting a race" isn't racism. There are legitimate reasons why minorities need scholarships. They don't need them any less than white people, at any rate.

Now, if you are not a minority and picked the first answer on this poll, raise your hand. You should be ashamed of yourself for butting into an issue that you clearly don't understand.