Poll: Are scholarships designated for African-Americans racist?

[thenumberthirteen]

Well sometimes certain groups give each other legs up. There are African American families that cannot afford to support talented children, but then again this is the same across all ethnic groups. I think it's a practice that's becoming outdated, and I'm not fully in support of it, but I don't see it as racist.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Private entities are totally different. Theoretically where an individual chooses to spend their money is up to them.

Nope, not given current laws it's not[footnote]I am assuming here that America has laws that are almost direct copies of the laws we have in England about this, what with them being in the UN and all.[/footnote]. It is illegal to discriminate between race, whichever way you do it. You aren't allowed to choose a white person for the job over a black man because of colour, nor are you allowed to choose a female over a male because of gender.

And, just as a safety measure, yes, skin colour and gender do come under a lot of the same laws so they are related here. I'd usually trust someone not to flame me for combining those two, but it's a very touchy subject here.

 

[Gudrests]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for size

it's racist, but it's necessary. maybe in another 50 years we'll have advanced to a point where affirmative action and african-american scholarships and the NAACP aren't necessary, but right now they're the better of several evils.

by all rights what your saying right here is that African-Americans are not capable of doing what the majority is capable of doing so they need extra help money wise in order to do it? that dosent sound right to me. What makes a black student need more help than a white student? is it because he is white that he MUST have tons of money? or that it means he went to a private school?...does it mean that he is higher in a social order that apparently exists so scholarships have to be given to an african-american to help him climb that social latter? to me that sounds racist. "lets give to one group of people based on there skin color because they CLEARLY are not able to do what everyone else is capable of doing" to me that sounds quite dumb. In all honesty NOTHING should be White/Black/Chinese/whateveryouwanttobecalled only in this country. If you sign up for a job, unless you are physically or mentally disabled there is no reason you should not be able to do what everyone else can do.

Unless of course the race of people as a whole would like to admit that they are infact not as smart/strong/fast as everyone else, and that the average one of them cannot compete with the average of a majority. But i truthfully don't see that happening any time soon. I think we are all equal now. HELL the leader of the most powerfull country in the world is an African-American....that should be proof right there

it's not that they are less capable, it's that there is still a TON of racism (and let's face it, while racism goes both ways, it hurts blacks more than the rest of us, since they tend toward the economic minority) in this country. the fact is, even blacks who are scholastically equal to their white counterparts will often be at a disadvantage for scholarships because discrimination isn't gone (basically, all other things being equal, the whiter man usually wins). i too had high hopes for the election of our first black president, but if anything Obama's election has only proven just how far we still have to go.

I know there is racism but you would be supprised how little it is now...does it exist YES OH YES OHHHH YESS GOD YES, but that does not mean much in most areas. And here is an example of why it was racist. My dad was a police officer and took the Sargent test. He scored somewhere from an 89-96 (forgot the number) the african american cop who took it got a 65. Who do you think got the promotion. Was the test racist? was the time clock racist? i truthfully doubt it. i have never seen a test be racist unless it gives every black person in the room a papercut and every white person $100 bucks. Ive also never seen a clock lie to a black person and tell him "OHH NO man you got like an hour to get ready" and it say to a white person "ok you have 10 more minutes left i already started your car and i called your wife and said happy birthday" then again...i could be wrong. If you want to make a charity and make it so blacks and whites and everyone inbetween can get what they want fine. if a black person wants someone from there old neighborhood to get a scholarship. fine. but what makes the black person need a job more than i do. Hell the only reason i have a job is because i got a lucky break and my mother's job had an opening, but besides that i was SOL.

In short "Equal Opportunity" needs to change a bit...it should not mean just equal reward. It should mean EVERYONE who works....works. If your a black/white/woman/man/asian/ANYTHING/ a combination of all of them. If you do the job you get payed, and you do exactly what your coworker does, im talking women in the military blacks whites EVERYONE.. If everyone does there work and earns it. I dont see why not.Even if a certian people did in face oppress another group of people in the past...Did i do it? Did my family directly oppress that individual's family to the point that 100 years later they can still not get back on there feet? I truthfully dont think so considering that the first of my family to be born here was 110 years ago

EDIT: im soo sorry for that wall of text lol....lets just say I have strong feelings for this topic

 

[Lawyer105]

Now I want you to go back and read my post again. And sit down and try to understand what I'm saying, you don't need a scholarship for that.

You... you're actually serious. There just isn't anything more to say, really. I'm not sure I can make myself believe that YOU believe all that.

I don't know if I can adjust my brain far enough to wedge it into whatever bizarro-reality you happen to be inhabiting.

Maybe I'll just go have a brandy instead. Yeah.

 

[crudus]

I think some of you are missing the point. because you say "yes it is racist, but it is ok because blah blah blah.." It's not ok. either racism is ok, or it is not. Not one white person living in America today has anything to do with black slavery or oppression from the 1700-1800's. If people pay for the sins of their forefathers, should not I as a Jew receive some sort of compensation for the fact that they destroyed every branch of my family save one less than a hundred years ago? The answer is no. most of the people involved in the Nazi party are dead, and the few that escaped a reckoning have to live with their ghosts and demons. Earn what you have, do not have it handed to you because of race.

People can be racist is they want to. It is a free country after all. Businesses, states, etc cannot. A lot of scholarships are privately funded and those people can choose on whatever criteria they want to give away their money. Should they discriminate based on race? no. Should they be able to if they wish? yes. Now, state funded scholarships shouldn't be allowed to give out money based on race. As I have said before, it really doesn't matter in the end. There are a couple hundred scholarships for which each person qualifies.

How many of you guys are actually a minority? Or female? Or gay?

A little less than half.

 

[Kimjira19]

Personally, I think scholarships should be given for one of the two following reasons/qualifications: 1) merit-based scholarships, as they reward those who drive themselves to succeed with an opportunity to continue this at a reduce personal monetary cost. 2) financially-based scholarships/monetary aide, because it helps even the academic field for those from low and middle class families (yes middle class, the only people who can afford to attend any college they want and not incur student loan are the upper class)
Basically, I think that scholarships should not be based on skin color because basing it on race not only sends the message that one race is more valued than the other (even thought that is not the intention) AND because it glazes over the real issue: the
(un)affordability of higher education and its impact on the income gap. This gap is becoming dangerously large, shrinking the middle class and creating a society more reminiscent of the class division of the industrial revolution, as oppossed to the American ideal of equal opportunity.

 

[SoopaSte123]

Most of the time when I hear people talking about reverse-racism, they are white, middle-class, males. Not all the time, but most of time. And guys, you already control a bulk of the world.

Wow, now THIS is racist. "you already control a bulk of the world"? Seriously? This is the most racist statement on this thread. Inferring that I am the same as some of the richest men in the world simply because I have the same skin pigmentation is both racist and offensive.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I control a bulk of the world. Guess I'm all set. Oh, wait, I'm a separate person and having white skin doesn't make me the same as everyone else with white skin, I forgot.

You have the easiest time getting a job. You have the easiest time getting into schools. You have the easiest time being accepted by the world at large.

This is simply untrue. I am currently enrolled in engineering at Penn State and I know for a fact minorities have a much easier time getting a job since companies get benefits for hiring minorities. It's MUCH easier for minorities to get hired.

The bottom line is: there's plenty of scholarship money out there if you need it. There are scholarships for people of specific faiths, descendants of original colonists, horse show competitors, writers, singers, athletes of all stripes, etc. Chances are, you can find a scholarship that seems tailor-made for you.

And no, this is a falsehood as well. My friends and I have many "special groups" we belong to and it does not make it any easier to get scholarships. My one lower-class white male friend in engineering, who desperately needs scholarships, has had little-to-no luck finding any because he is not a minority.

 

[Vryyk]

They're not just for African-Americans. There are ones for women, orientals, hispanics, etc.

The rational behind them is the myth that white males are all rich and over-privileged. Thus, if you happen to be a poor white male (such as myself) you'd better get a job really early, rack up some credit (I used a cd-secured loan, which enabled me to get a cell phone in my name, etc. etc.), and then get a whole mess of student loans. My wife on the other hand, benefiting from having two x chromosomes and being just a little worse off financially, got through her undergrad with barely any debt. It was the Vet-school that caught up with her there (because there are no full-ride scholarships for vet-school. They assume everyone is rich).

My basic complaint with this and affirmative action is they are based on racial stereotypes. They assume that minorities and females will have a harder time paying for college, or getting into college, because they assume they're poor. Rather than just assume the Social Economic Status of people, why not make these things based on SES instead?

Agreed. My buddy from high school was black and now he's attending a very nice college in Wisconsin nearly free of charge while I (a white male) am trying to scratch up the forty thousand I'm gonna need. That's 3,333 hours of work according to my calculator.

Do I begrudge the blacks who take advantage of this deal? Not at all, people should do what's best for themselves. Who would turn down a tasty free biscuit, let alone free college?

But at the same time I can't justify a society that seems to hold me personally responsible for the actions of my ancestors. Now that's racism.

 

[Talshere]

snip

For as long as there has been civilisation there has been discrimination. Black people were hardly the first people in the world to be slaves. Many cultures have practised slavery on other and themselves. Even if in many cases it was not described as such. Almost all European countries practised slavery on their own people.

This is not a justification for treating someone differently. Its like that absolute farce a few years back with Tony Blair apologising for the slave trade. I call Bull. I was not part of that apology. I have never practised it, and my country abolished it a century ago. I had nothing to apologise for.

I should point out here that I am not from the US. I'm from the UK. As such my perspectives are a little different. We were a good few years ahead of you so its longer in our memory's.

But to grant a scholarship based on something other than household income and academic ability is wrong.

For as long as ethic minorities have been treated like crap, the indigenous population has ALSO been treated like crap. To grant them ANYTHING based on something other than the above parameters, is a perfect example of 1 way racism. I say this because I GUARANTEE you that if one of those "disadvantaged background" scholarships had the clause "applicants must be of Caucasian origin" it would end in a court within the month.

There cannot be equality. Not because there cant be equality. But because people wont LET there be equality! These minorities want to be treated the same. Yet by creating these benefits for them alone they are ENFORCING separation. What reason has that destitute A grade white kid got NOT to hate is B grade minority counterpart who is only just below the poverty line, yet still taking the grant.

All things equal.

The white kid should have got the grant. He has less money, and better grades.

 

[Vryyk]

Affirmative Action is racism, and that's why I'll never, ever accept a Hispanic student scholarship. I don't give a damn if I have to actually work to survive while I'm in school, my principles are worth a little less sleep and earning what I have.

Sir, you have my utmost respect. If this "affirmative action" bullshit is to stop, the say-so has to come from intelligent, well-reasoned people who belong to a racial minority.

 

[asinann]

It is racist, the problem is in the United States if you aren't white you can't be racist and if you aren't male you can't be sexist. If you are a white male you are assumed to be a pig before you even open your mouth.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Spoiler: spoiler'd for size

it's racist, but it's necessary. maybe in another 50 years we'll have advanced to a point where affirmative action and african-american scholarships and the NAACP aren't necessary, but right now they're the better of several evils.

by all rights what your saying right here is that African-Americans are not capable of doing what the majority is capable of doing so they need extra help money wise in order to do it? that dosent sound right to me. What makes a black student need more help than a white student? is it because he is white that he MUST have tons of money? or that it means he went to a private school?...does it mean that he is higher in a social order that apparently exists so scholarships have to be given to an african-american to help him climb that social latter? to me that sounds racist. "lets give to one group of people based on there skin color because they CLEARLY are not able to do what everyone else is capable of doing" to me that sounds quite dumb. In all honesty NOTHING should be White/Black/Chinese/whateveryouwanttobecalled only in this country. If you sign up for a job, unless you are physically or mentally disabled there is no reason you should not be able to do what everyone else can do.

Unless of course the race of people as a whole would like to admit that they are infact not as smart/strong/fast as everyone else, and that the average one of them cannot compete with the average of a majority. But i truthfully don't see that happening any time soon. I think we are all equal now. HELL the leader of the most powerfull country in the world is an African-American....that should be proof right there

it's not that they are less capable, it's that there is still a TON of racism (and let's face it, while racism goes both ways, it hurts blacks more than the rest of us, since they tend toward the economic minority) in this country. the fact is, even blacks who are scholastically equal to their white counterparts will often be at a disadvantage for scholarships because discrimination isn't gone (basically, all other things being equal, the whiter man usually wins). i too had high hopes for the election of our first black president, but if anything Obama's election has only proven just how far we still have to go.

I know there is racism but you would be supprised how little it is now...does it exist YES OH YES OHHHH YESS GOD YES, but that does not mean much in most areas. And here is an example of why it was racist. My dad was a police officer and took the Sargent test. He scored somewhere from an 89-96 (forgot the number) the african american cop who took it got a 65. Who do you think got the promotion. Was the test racist? was the time clock racist? i truthfully doubt it. i have never seen a test be racist unless it gives every black person in the room a papercut and every white person $100 bucks. Ive also never seen a clock lie to a black person and tell him "OHH NO man you got like an hour to get ready" and it say to a white person "ok you have 10 more minutes left i already started your car and i called your wife and said happy birthday" then again...i could be wrong. If you want to make a charity and make it so blacks and whites and everyone inbetween can get what they want fine. if a black person wants someone from there old neighborhood to get a scholarship. fine. but what makes the black person need a job more than i do. Hell the only reason i have a job is because i got a lucky break and my mother's job had an opening, but besides that i was SOL.

In short "Equal Opportunity" needs to change a bit...it should not mean just equal reward. It should mean EVERYONE who works....works. If your a black/white/woman/man/asian/ANYTHING/ a combination of all of them. If you do the job you get payed, and you do exactly what your coworker does, im talking women in the military blacks whites EVERYONE.. If everyone does there work and earns it. I dont see why not.Even if a certian people did in face oppress another group of people in the past...Did i do it? Did my family directly oppress that individual's family to the point that 100 years later they can still not get back on there feet? I truthfully dont think so considering that the first of my family to be born here was 110 years ago

EDIT: im soo sorry for that wall of text lol....lets just say I have strong feelings for this topic

don't be sorry. i understand your strong feelings. i, too, used to rail against the injustice and stupidity of Affirmative Action. however, i've been out in the world enough now to see that racism is alive and well. i don't blame anyone for feeling that Affirmative Action is a bad thing, i simply would argue that the alternative is even worse.

also, another thing i'd like to clear up: some people have been making statements to the effect that the government provides black-only scholarships. this is untrue. black scholarships are provided by private groups, such as churches and the NAACP. the only effect of the government on "reverse racism" is as it applies to Affirmative Action.

 

[Lilani]

How many of you guys are actually a minority? Or female? Or gay?

A little less than half.

Actually it's a little more than half, in the US about 51% of the population is female. Common misconception :3

 

[Sindaine]

Er, no, they're not. Unless you're trying argue that vile 'White people are the REAL victims of racism!!!' bullshit. In which case not only are you wrong, you're a worthless twat who should summarily eat a bullet made of shit.

 

[Ken Sapp]

Scholarships which can not be awarded to any person based on their race/density of pigmentation are racist. However as long as they being funded and awarded by a private institution then they are perfectly legal although distasteful in my opinion. Other than that the only qualifiers for entry to college/university should be academic performance and drive. And for *#%$'s sake please dispose of athletic scholarships, college is a place for learning and anyone who does not merit entry based solely on their academic performance has no business being there.

I have far more to say on the subject of higher learning but I would be drifting too far off topic.

 

[crudus]

Actually it's a little more than half, in the US about 51% of the population is female. Common misconception :3

Well, it is a good thing you aren't talking to a population that is exclusively American

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

Yeah they're racist, but people have the right to be racially exclusive in their own private clubs. Example: it's not a crime to be a member of the KKK, and I'm guessing they have some sort of paint-chip test to make sure you're not too sultan's sand. People can and do choose to make scholarships for a host of ludicrous reasons. Why aren't you attacking scholarships for left-handed people? or people of Norwegian descent?

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

*Sigh* I am so going to get trolled for this, but here it goes...
The slaves that built this country up to be what it is today were never thanked and never rewarded for their efforts (kind of comes with being a slave...) I feel we owe something to the African American community to make up for the past. I know that nobody here has ever personally subjugated another (I certainly hope not), but we still enjoy the long term benefits of their ancestors' sufferings. That will never feel right to me.

Also, the whole "If it was a scholarship just for Caucasians..." argument is flawed. Caucasian males have never had to endure institutionalized, hate-based discrimination. This practice targeted the African American community well up until the late 60s, and it takes a very long time for a community to heal from something like that.

So in short, no. It's not racist, it's justified.

EDIT: No, I'm not saying that anyone here, personally, is a racist. I just think that the scholarships and NAACP are well justified.

 

[Lilani]

Actually it's a little more than half, in the US about 51% of the population is female. Common misconception :3

Well, it is a good thing you aren't talking to a population that is exclusively American

I'm aware that there are other countries in the world other than the US, and that people from them also use the Escapist forums. That is why I said "In the US," which is where my original basis of comparison came from when I made this thread.