Poll: Are scholarships designated for African-Americans racist?

[Raregolddragon]

Yes it is set for keeping another race out or letting only one race. It is racist.

 

[UberNoodle]

Yep. But good look getting the politically correctness paranoia brigade to see that.

Didn't you know. In their world. Racism only works one way.

Your method of debate is quite juvenile. It is based, essentially, on your groundless assertion that every argument contrary to your own, is based on the meaningless and completely subjective lables of "political correctness" and "paranoia".

What you are doing is just a veiled version of "you're wrong because I said so!". It didn't work in Kindergarten. Why would it work now?

You're suggesting that my debating techniques are lacking, simply based on an observation I made?

Dick move.

First off. I wasn't having a debate. I was pointing something out. Secondly. How did anything I say bring you to the conclusion that I consider anything contrary to my beliefs to be fictitious?

Pointing out that people seem to currently be afraid of their own shadows, when it comes to a touchy subject such as racism, isn't only correct, it's not an argument. Again.... observation.

The evidence is there for anyone to see.

Just take the casting director who was fired from the Hobbit recently. He was backing the perfectly acceptable notion that there would be no ethnic diversity in Hobbits, in middle Earth. And was fired because he was accused of racism.

Stating that the current level of political correctness is somewhat retarded, is in no way shape or form equal to "you're wrong because I said so!". It's an opinion. Something that if I'm not mistaken, we're all still entitled to.

If you're going to attempt to act like a condescending ass. Try to form a legitimate argument next time.

Mate, you said what you said, and my response was appropriate based on that. I can't account for the things you didn't say, but it is your responsibility to say them, not later, but when it actually counts. Right now you are having needless a tantrum.

 

[CarpathianMuffin]

I don't see a problem with it, though it should be changed to accommodate other ethnicities in much the same manner, without reprisal. Same way I think of feminism, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Reminds me of a time when friend of mine tried to start a White Student Union at my school. It wasn't going to be racist, nothing offensive or discriminatory beyond the simple 'Are you white? No? Then why are you signing up for this?' argument. Naturally, it got shot down for being offensive. Never mind the fact that every other ethnicity has a student union at my school, and they're a hell of a lot more selective than my friend's planned club was going to be.
His point illustrated, I can't help but agree that the scholarships can be indirectly racist when not given to other races.

How about if this was done in gaming or sports terms:

Would a heavy weight boxer be appropriate against a feather weight, simply because "we are all human, aren't we?"? Should a pro-Street Fighter player play not pros and "newbs" without handicap. simply because "we are both human, are we not?"?

Yes, they can, but is it fair? In society, equality is paramount. Sadly society bears the damage and instilled inequality of at least hundreds of years of predjudice and racism. That status quo is changing but it won't in anybody's life-time. Should we ask a black boy with aspirations to succeed, living in a low income family past 8 Mile, to wait a couple of hundred years for society to shed its White, post-colonial baggage?

That's hardly fair, and it can be argued that that boy's white neighbour should be eligible for the scholarship too. I understand that. The thing is, he probably IS eligible for a scholarship, such as some low-income, single parent or whatever one. Regardless, we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, otherwise NOTHING would ever get done. These scholarships are the lesser of several evils.

I agree that it should be kept, there are many black students out there that need the help. I think you only half picked up on my opinion that if there's enough support, it should be extended to other ethnicities.
The same could've been said about affirmative action. And while that's still in place to a small extent, it also wasn't fair. Now, scholarships exclusive to black students don't necessarily leave white students out in the cold. And there are thousands of scholarships out there, which many white students qualify for. I'm essentially agreeing with the OP's statement.

 

[adledog]

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS UP!! Ive always been annoyed when something is stated as only for a certain race because they are by definition racist. I hate how its perfectly acceptable to be racist as long as its towards white people.

 

[UberNoodle]

Yes, they can, but is it fair? In society, equality is paramount. Sadly society bears the damage and instilled inequality of at least hundreds of years of predjudice and racism. That status quo is changing but it won't in anybody's life-time. Should we ask a white boy with aspirations to succeed, living in a low income family past 8 Mile, to wait a couple of hundred years for society to shed its positive rasism, post-colonial baggage?

You just changed "black" to "white" in a very juvenile attempt at rebuttle. I use that last word very loosely, however. If you have the chops, address the points I raised adequately. Find some evidence to deny that they are not true or relevant to the topic at hand. Perhaps even open your mind and learn something new. But don't be make snide, smart arse little stunts like that, which do nothing to enlighten or push the topic forward towards resolution.

 

[UberNoodle]

Yep. But good look getting the politically correctness paranoia brigade to see that.

Didn't you know. In their world. Racism only works one way.

Your method of debate is quite juvenile. It is based, essentially, on your groundless assertion that every argument contrary to your own, is based on the meaningless and completely subjective lables of "political correctness" and "paranoia".

What you are doing is just a veiled version of "you're wrong because I said so!". It didn't work in Kindergarten. Why would it work now?

You're suggesting that my debating techniques are lacking, simply based on an observation I made?

Dick move.

First off. I wasn't having a debate. I was pointing something out. Secondly. How did anything I say bring you to the conclusion that I consider anything contrary to my beliefs to be fictitious?

Pointing out that people seem to currently be afraid of their own shadows, when it comes to a touchy subject such as racism, isn't only correct, it's not an argument. Again.... observation.

The evidence is there for anyone to see.

Just take the casting director who was fired from the Hobbit recently. He was backing the perfectly acceptable notion that there would be no ethnic diversity in Hobbits, in middle Earth. And was fired because he was accused of racism.

Stating that the current level of political correctness is somewhat retarded, is in no way shape or form equal to "you're wrong because I said so!". It's an opinion. Something that if I'm not mistaken, we're all still entitled to.

If you're going to attempt to act like a condescending ass. Try to form a legitimate argument next time.

Mate, you said what you said, and my response was appropriate based on that. I can't account for the things you didn't say, but it is your responsibility to say them, not later, but when it actually counts. Right now you are having needless a tantrum.

Fine. I will reduce it to the barebones.

An observation =/= debating skill.

I wasn't aware people would judge something based on something else that doesn't relate to it.

Excuse me for my obvious oversight :/

Clearly you are not observant enough to understand what I wrote. I've explained myself adequately already.

 

[Merkavar]

Yes, they can, but is it fair? In society, equality is paramount. Sadly society bears the damage and instilled inequality of at least hundreds of years of predjudice and racism. That status quo is changing but it won't in anybody's life-time. Should we ask a white boy with aspirations to succeed, living in a low income family past 8 Mile, to wait a couple of hundred years for society to shed its positive rasism, post-colonial baggage?

You just changed "black" to "white" in a very juvenile attempt at rebuttle. I use that last word very loosely, however. If you have the chops, address the points I raised adequately. Find some evidence to deny that they are not true or relevant to the topic at hand. Perhaps even open your mind and learn something new. But don't be make snide, smart arse little stunts like that, which do nothing to enlighten or push the topic forward towards resolution.

i think it pushed my oppinion on the topic forward. what im getting at is that yes there is inequality but i dont think having rascist scholarships are going to fix anything. and with me changing the black to white i was showing that there are black people who need these scholarship but there are also white people in the same situations.

my oppinion is that WE ARE ALL PEOPLE and positive racism isnt good. that no one should be discriminated againsts based on race colour religion.

so yes there is discrimination and inequality towards black people but i dont think discriminating against white or anyone is going to fix anything.

 

[Dogstile]

Caucasian males have never had to endure institutionalized, hate-based discrimination.

The Irish were just as discriminated against when America was being built up. They're white and Caucasian.

Edit: Eugh, The statement above doesn't seem right. White and Caucasian is the same thing right?

*Wild card played!*

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

Caucasian males have never had to endure institutionalized, hate-based discrimination.

The Irish were just as discriminated against when America was being built up. They're white and Caucasian.

*Wild card played!*

That is a point I had not considered, good point.
I guess I'll revise the statement that no American-born Caucasian male has been discriminated against on and institutional level.

Clearly you now realise you have no point to make. So resort to cheap insults.

Bravo.

I understood what you wrote. I also understand the difference between an observation and the declaration that everything I disagree with is wrong.... do you?

So... You're, like, a child? Right?

 

[Diplodocus462]

No one is saying black people are better or worse than white people, so it's not racist.

 

[Merkavar]

No one is saying black people are better or worse than white people, so it's not racist.

they are saying that cause your white you are ot allowed to get this scholarship.

so i set up a white only club im not racist?

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

Clearly you now realise you have no point to make. So resort to cheap insults.

Bravo.

I understood what you wrote. I also understand the difference between an observation and the declaration that everything I disagree with is wrong.... do you?

So... You're, like, a child? Right?

Clearly. Because anyone who refuses to let a pompous ass like that feel he's accomplished anything must be a child.

Either justify his assumption or stay out of it.

I guess, I'm a child, then, because, I find your inexplicable rage amusing.
EDIT: Just to add to this, I read the guy's posts... He had a pretty calm tone to his posts, then you just sort of raged on him.
It's just a forum, if some one disagrees with you, it's not a personal insult. Try to calm down a little.

 

[Lilani]

Things are "marked for caucasians" EVERYWHERE. It is a popular past-time of conservative alarmists to point at attempts to equalise the unfair status quo, and say that they are "reverse racism", yet proper investigation of spending on the populace will always show that caucasians enjoy the most benefit from gov't spending and public works etc.

You say this, yet you failed to provide any examples. Perhaps it's because I have my "white-glasses" on, but I've never seen anything as marked "caucasians only" as clearly as that scholarship was marked "black people only". And anytime anything is marked that clearly it is quickly swept away by lawsuits and hate mail--and rightfully so.

No overt lable is needed for caucasians but you can be assured that ifthose lables were visible, they would by far outweigh those labled for others. As I said, racism is NOT attempts to repair enequality. However, the attitude that such equalisations should be removed because "we are all human and should treated the same" could be construed as a manifestation of racism. If not, it is ignorant, when CLEARLY people are NOT all equal in society and its institutions.

Oh, now I see. It's one of those "invisible" labels. That's why I haven't seen them. But again, you listed no examples, so to me all of this is coming across as paranoia and overreaction. Because they're not so "clear," perhaps you could provide some insight and examples so they're a bit more clear to me?

When non-caucasians as a whole, enjoy the same level of contentment, success and opportunity caucasions as a whole, do, society DOES need initiatives to equalise things. And as other posters have said, singling out this one form of scholarship is cherry-picking, as there are many kinds of scholarships and assistance available for all kinds of people. AND to assert that the rule is somehow "If black, GET scholarship" is highly illogical. Obviously there is a process and high competition, even for these scholarships.

I never asserted that it was an "If black, get scholarship" situation. My exact words were an "African-American student who displayed x good qualities and x qualities of leadership." Of course being black isn't the only qualifier, that would defeat the purpose of it being a scholarship. However being black is a key part of the equation, just as key as the academic or leadership parts--as advertised. I'm not saying the scholarship is unnecessarily entitling black students. I'm saying that it's not fair for only black students to be considered. It's just as wrong as deserving black students not being considered for other scholarships, and that applies to every other aspect of life, including employment and politics.

It's beliefs like yours that will never allow racism to die out. If you keep highlighting the lines without abandon, things will never change.

 

[loch belthadd]

Caucasian males have never had to endure institutionalized, hate-based discrimination.

The Irish were just as discriminated against when America was being built up. They're white and Caucasian.

*Wild card played!*

That is a point I had not considered, good point.
I guess I'll revise the statement that no American-born Caucasian male has been discriminated against on and institutional level.

Clearly you now realise you have no point to make. So resort to cheap insults.

Bravo.

I understood what you wrote. I also understand the difference between an observation and the declaration that everything I disagree with is wrong.... do you?

So... You're, like, a child? Right?

The thing is that if we're allowing what happened to some people long ago to affect our current judgement, why not others? Basically every group has been discriminated against and just because you share a skin color doesn't mean you share a culture. Not everyone had slaves back then. It has been a while, but I seem to remember my history teacher saying that out of the 5 million or so people in the south 300,000 (Still a lot, but compared to 5 mil...) were slaves. Only about 13% of southerners had slaves, and even less northerners (It has been quite a while so my numbers may not be accurate).
My biggest problem with your line of thinking is that my ancestors had absolutely nothing to do with slavery. Poor Irish potato farmers and French-Canadian factory workers couldn't have possibly afforded slaves even if they wanted them, and in fact weren't even on this side of the Atlantic until well after slavery was abolished. Why should I be affected by the actions of some people who were never related to me and came from different cultures than any of my ancestors within at least 7 generations?
That's why this kind of thinking bothers me. It has nothing to do with me or my family, but I am expected to apologize, just because I have a similar skin tone? I don't think so.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

I'm not angry. I'm just incredibly bemused by some of the idiocy I've seen on the Escapist lately. What's even more incredible, is that they think dressing their posts up in fanciful lexicon somehow makes them more poignant.

Wow. No hypocrisy at all in that statement.

Anyways, good night dude, It's really not even worth it.
And really, try not to be so angry, it's bad for your health.