Poll: Are We Entitled?

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

You mean games being sold with extra content available should I wish to buy it?

I have yet to play a game that I felt was incomplete because something was 'cut' from it.

Now, that's my own anecdote, and such, does not make it an absolute to anything except my own experience (which a lot of people seem to forget).

Games used to cost 50-60 quid when I was growing up, I thought they would get more expensive, but they actually went down in price.

Since then, I'm very careful about throwing around 'X has done Y, therefore they will do Z'.

That's an interesting thought. If a game was incomplete how would you know it? Aslong as they aren't ruining the ending. You have no way of telling how complete something is. Until you notice how much content is being denied.

Plus play Dragon age origins: where thats that wanker that waits around camp, giving you quest info but no quest until you buy the DLC. Or quest that have markers but you cant start until you buy the dlc. Crazy isn't it? It's there, you just aren't looking hard enough.

I played the Dragon Age DLC. It added nothing to the overall story and did not make my experience richer, it was simply an optional side quest. Granted, unless I buy every DLC for every game I buy, ever, I will not know what I'm missing out on. But in the grand age of the internet, I can check these things out, and as of yet, I've feel I've been forced to buy DLC 'to get the full experience', I've bought it because I like the game and want something more to do with it.

You dont understand the issue. Being "forced" into it is only half the issue. THe fact is, any content on the disc should be fully accessible to everyone. Just because you don't know its there, doesn't excuse the practice. Plus i'd be a kidney that 20% of Me3 is necessary, the rest is sidequests, romances, character loyalties. You know the rpg goodness. I see that this 80% is slowly being threatened. I like games with fluffy goodness. I want it to stay that way. Don't you?

Disk locked content is a scam, there's no doubt about that. But stuff that isn't on the disk? Well that's not part of the product, that's an extra that you may or may not be charged for.

If this Prothean thing ends up being disk locked content, then you're perfectly within your right to complain, but if it isn't, then that's an extra.

 

[cookyy2k]

It depends on if you actually want whatever DLC they're throwing in. Also I couldn't care less about scratched or dents as long as it plays, which my local game store guarantees. The book/box being in pristine condition does not justify an extra couple of hour's wages. I don't know about the US but in the UK there are massive savings to be made buying used.

So, if you have no issues with the used model, why are you complaining about new purchase incentive (not the kind that Dragon Age came with. That was used purchase punishment)?

No problem with new incentives. I have a problem with withheld content and on disc content but not an EXTRA they include.

 

[Epona]

The new buyer bought a copy that Gamestop had paid full price for the right to sell.
The used buyer bought a copy of a game that has been played by another person, all included codes have been used, and the money is going directly to Gamestop, with no profits going to the developer.

The developer should reward someone who is not supporting them? Argument fallacy is fallacious.

Online passes don't "reward" anyone, they punish both the new and used buyers. Anyway, think about it, if you bought a used copy of Final Fantasy X (a PS2 game). Square doesn't have to go out of their way to let you play the whole game. Indeed, it would be more trouble for Square to withhold content than just to let you play what's on the disc. People aren't asking to be "rewarded" when they buy used. The "reward" is actually a punishment.

Final Fantasy X came out on PS2, last I checked online wasn't the biggest of supports PS2 had. I don't think that if they even tried it, it would have worked. It's this new advent of online gaming communities on console.
And didn't I already state we all know online passes are shit and that it was just the first thing that came to mind? And didn't I already stats disc locked content is bullshit and is punishing everyone?
Are you trying to argue my points by agreeing with them? First extremely flimsy fallacious arguments that put the used market blame onto developers and not the consumer, and now this?
You are not very good at this.

I don't memorize who says what, I answer posts, not people. Your post is arguing that people want developers to reward them for buying used. That is what I am arguing against.

Oh, thanks for the compliment. Being good at arguing over the internet isn't something I would prize.

 

[Epona]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

You mean games being sold with extra content available should I wish to buy it?

I have yet to play a game that I felt was incomplete because something was 'cut' from it.

Now, that's my own anecdote, and such, does not make it an absolute to anything except my own experience (which a lot of people seem to forget).

Games used to cost 50-60 quid when I was growing up, I thought they would get more expensive, but they actually went down in price.

Since then, I'm very careful about throwing around 'X has done Y, therefore they will do Z'.

That's an interesting thought. If a game was incomplete how would you know it? Aslong as they aren't ruining the ending. You have no way of telling how complete something is. Until you notice how much content is being denied.

Plus play Dragon age origins: where thats that wanker that waits around camp, giving you quest info but no quest until you buy the DLC. Or quest that have markers but you cant start until you buy the dlc. Crazy isn't it? It's there, you just aren't looking hard enough.

I played the Dragon Age DLC. It added nothing to the overall story and did not make my experience richer, it was simply an optional side quest. Granted, unless I buy every DLC for every game I buy, ever, I will not know what I'm missing out on. But in the grand age of the internet, I can check these things out, and as of yet, I've feel I've been forced to buy DLC 'to get the full experience', I've bought it because I like the game and want something more to do with it.

You dont understand the issue. Being "forced" into it is only half the issue. THe fact is, any content on the disc should be fully accessible to everyone. Just because you don't know its there, doesn't excuse the practice. Plus i'd be a kidney that 20% of Me3 is necessary, the rest is sidequests, romances, character loyalties. You know the rpg goodness. I see that this 80% is slowly being threatened. I like games with fluffy goodness. I want it to stay that way. Don't you?

Disk locked content is a scam, there's no doubt about that. But stuff that isn't on the disk? Well that's not part of the product, that's an extra that you may or may not be charged for.

If this Prothean thing ends up being disk locked content, then you're perfectly within your right to complain, but if it isn't, then that's an extra.

So Bioware could have just withheld it from the disc so it would pass that test but it would still be content that could have been on the disc because it was ready to go when the disc went to press. The disc doesn't go to press until it's passed certification...right?

 

[Epona]

It depends on if you actually want whatever DLC they're throwing in. Also I couldn't care less about scratched or dents as long as it plays, which my local game store guarantees. The book/box being in pristine condition does not justify an extra couple of hour's wages. I don't know about the US but in the UK there are massive savings to be made buying used.

So, if you have no issues with the used model, why are you complaining about new purchase incentive (not the kind that Dragon Age came with. That was used purchase punishment)?

No problem with new incentives. I have a problem with withheld content and on disc content but not an EXTRA they include.

Isn't extra content, free if you buy new, the same as withheld content if you buy used?

 

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

You mean games being sold with extra content available should I wish to buy it?

I have yet to play a game that I felt was incomplete because something was 'cut' from it.

Now, that's my own anecdote, and such, does not make it an absolute to anything except my own experience (which a lot of people seem to forget).

Games used to cost 50-60 quid when I was growing up, I thought they would get more expensive, but they actually went down in price.

Since then, I'm very careful about throwing around 'X has done Y, therefore they will do Z'.

That's an interesting thought. If a game was incomplete how would you know it? Aslong as they aren't ruining the ending. You have no way of telling how complete something is. Until you notice how much content is being denied.

Plus play Dragon age origins: where thats that wanker that waits around camp, giving you quest info but no quest until you buy the DLC. Or quest that have markers but you cant start until you buy the dlc. Crazy isn't it? It's there, you just aren't looking hard enough.

I played the Dragon Age DLC. It added nothing to the overall story and did not make my experience richer, it was simply an optional side quest. Granted, unless I buy every DLC for every game I buy, ever, I will not know what I'm missing out on. But in the grand age of the internet, I can check these things out, and as of yet, I've feel I've been forced to buy DLC 'to get the full experience', I've bought it because I like the game and want something more to do with it.

You dont understand the issue. Being "forced" into it is only half the issue. THe fact is, any content on the disc should be fully accessible to everyone. Just because you don't know its there, doesn't excuse the practice. Plus i'd be a kidney that 20% of Me3 is necessary, the rest is sidequests, romances, character loyalties. You know the rpg goodness. I see that this 80% is slowly being threatened. I like games with fluffy goodness. I want it to stay that way. Don't you?

Disk locked content is a scam, there's no doubt about that. But stuff that isn't on the disk? Well that's not part of the product, that's an extra that you may or may not be charged for.

If this Prothean thing ends up being disk locked content, then you're perfectly within your right to complain, but if it isn't, then that's an extra.

So Bioware could have just withheld it from the disc so it would pass that test but it would still be content that could have been on the disc because it was ready to go when the disc went to press. The disc doesn't go to press until it's passed certification...right?

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

 

[Epona]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

You mean games being sold with extra content available should I wish to buy it?

I have yet to play a game that I felt was incomplete because something was 'cut' from it.

Now, that's my own anecdote, and such, does not make it an absolute to anything except my own experience (which a lot of people seem to forget).

Games used to cost 50-60 quid when I was growing up, I thought they would get more expensive, but they actually went down in price.

Since then, I'm very careful about throwing around 'X has done Y, therefore they will do Z'.

That's an interesting thought. If a game was incomplete how would you know it? Aslong as they aren't ruining the ending. You have no way of telling how complete something is. Until you notice how much content is being denied.

Plus play Dragon age origins: where thats that wanker that waits around camp, giving you quest info but no quest until you buy the DLC. Or quest that have markers but you cant start until you buy the dlc. Crazy isn't it? It's there, you just aren't looking hard enough.

I played the Dragon Age DLC. It added nothing to the overall story and did not make my experience richer, it was simply an optional side quest. Granted, unless I buy every DLC for every game I buy, ever, I will not know what I'm missing out on. But in the grand age of the internet, I can check these things out, and as of yet, I've feel I've been forced to buy DLC 'to get the full experience', I've bought it because I like the game and want something more to do with it.

You dont understand the issue. Being "forced" into it is only half the issue. THe fact is, any content on the disc should be fully accessible to everyone. Just because you don't know its there, doesn't excuse the practice. Plus i'd be a kidney that 20% of Me3 is necessary, the rest is sidequests, romances, character loyalties. You know the rpg goodness. I see that this 80% is slowly being threatened. I like games with fluffy goodness. I want it to stay that way. Don't you?

Disk locked content is a scam, there's no doubt about that. But stuff that isn't on the disk? Well that's not part of the product, that's an extra that you may or may not be charged for.

If this Prothean thing ends up being disk locked content, then you're perfectly within your right to complain, but if it isn't, then that's an extra.

So Bioware could have just withheld it from the disc so it would pass that test but it would still be content that could have been on the disc because it was ready to go when the disc went to press. The disc doesn't go to press until it's passed certification...right?

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

Well, I guess so long as they keep the official evidence out of the public eye, they're fine. I, on the other hand, find it hard to believe that Shale wasn't ripped out of DAO and I don't have any official evidence.

 

[cookyy2k]

It depends on if you actually want whatever DLC they're throwing in. Also I couldn't care less about scratched or dents as long as it plays, which my local game store guarantees. The book/box being in pristine condition does not justify an extra couple of hour's wages. I don't know about the US but in the UK there are massive savings to be made buying used.

So, if you have no issues with the used model, why are you complaining about new purchase incentive (not the kind that Dragon Age came with. That was used purchase punishment)?

No problem with new incentives. I have a problem with withheld content and on disc content but not an EXTRA they include.

Isn't extra content, free if you buy new, the same as withheld content if you buy used?

Extra stuff is completely added and of no real game play significance, withheld is there but locked off or an extra that is of consequence. If you get a free DLC code with a new game and you download something that can be bought if used great, if you get bits of the disc locked off unless you type in a code given only to new then that's awful.

On disc "DLC" is as good an incentive as DRM to pirates. They would get a better product and it would be free! I never partake in piracy, but I do buy used and I can certainly see how these things encourage the people who do pirate.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

you know what. Congratulations. This is probably the worst argument I have ever seen.

"PEOPLE BK DEN BUY USE BUT EXPECT NEW QUALITY" First of all. Who? Who bought used and expected New? I dont believe that was the majority good sir, because that would be completely illogical to expect new quality with used quality.

The your last point, I assume you THINK it ties everything together, but sorry friend. I dont know how to tell you this. Your argument is logically flawed in every way. You have to tie point a to point B. You cant have some random ass story then assert your point at the end and that is your argument. That's nonsense.
Plus no one is even talking about New versus used. We are talking about day one dlc's. You know content on the disc? You know what people expect when they buy used: the fucking game. NOTHING more, nothing less. When shit is being hacked off for profit, we have a big fucking problem here.

It wont be long before we pay $60 for the engine, textures and 1st level then $10 to download each subsequent level (which are all on the disc of course) and we'll still have people paying it, saying it's a brilliant strategy and calling everyone who says it's awful entitled.

Ah yes, slippery slope fallacy, I haven't seen you in a while.

'X has done Y, which means they will eventually do Z'

A pleasure, as always.

Yeah, people used that fallacy when DLC first started getting popular and they said that eventually DLC would be coming out on Day One. We all know how wrong they were..right?

Yeah, except one thing coming to fruition doesn't automatically validate any other theories, it's still a fallacy.

Yeah and every slippery slope isn't a fallacy either.

It's considered a fallacy because there's no evidence to support it. Hindsight doesn't sudenly make supposition from the past less of a fallacy.

No evidence to support it? You don't see any evidence of games being sold in pieces? Look around buddy, it's happening.

You mean games being sold with extra content available should I wish to buy it?

I have yet to play a game that I felt was incomplete because something was 'cut' from it.

Now, that's my own anecdote, and such, does not make it an absolute to anything except my own experience (which a lot of people seem to forget).

Games used to cost 50-60 quid when I was growing up, I thought they would get more expensive, but they actually went down in price.

Since then, I'm very careful about throwing around 'X has done Y, therefore they will do Z'.

That's an interesting thought. If a game was incomplete how would you know it? Aslong as they aren't ruining the ending. You have no way of telling how complete something is. Until you notice how much content is being denied.

Plus play Dragon age origins: where thats that wanker that waits around camp, giving you quest info but no quest until you buy the DLC. Or quest that have markers but you cant start until you buy the dlc. Crazy isn't it? It's there, you just aren't looking hard enough.

I played the Dragon Age DLC. It added nothing to the overall story and did not make my experience richer, it was simply an optional side quest. Granted, unless I buy every DLC for every game I buy, ever, I will not know what I'm missing out on. But in the grand age of the internet, I can check these things out, and as of yet, I've feel I've been forced to buy DLC 'to get the full experience', I've bought it because I like the game and want something more to do with it.

You dont understand the issue. Being "forced" into it is only half the issue. THe fact is, any content on the disc should be fully accessible to everyone. Just because you don't know its there, doesn't excuse the practice. Plus i'd be a kidney that 20% of Me3 is necessary, the rest is sidequests, romances, character loyalties. You know the rpg goodness. I see that this 80% is slowly being threatened. I like games with fluffy goodness. I want it to stay that way. Don't you?

Disk locked content is a scam, there's no doubt about that. But stuff that isn't on the disk? Well that's not part of the product, that's an extra that you may or may not be charged for.

If this Prothean thing ends up being disk locked content, then you're perfectly within your right to complain, but if it isn't, then that's an extra.

So Bioware could have just withheld it from the disc so it would pass that test but it would still be content that could have been on the disc because it was ready to go when the disc went to press. The disc doesn't go to press until it's passed certification...right?

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

Well, I guess so long as they keep the official evidence out of the public eye, they're fine. I, on the other hand, find it hard to believe that Shale wasn't ripped out of DAO and I don't have any official evidence.

You're perfectly within your right to think that, just so long as you don't think less of those who actually need evidence to believe something.

 

[cookyy2k]

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

Well as far as I can make out the protean has always been in, as an NPC. The DLC lets you have him as a squad mate.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

Well as far as I can make out the protean has always been in, as an NPC. The DLC lets you have him as a squad mate.

Indeed, that's what I've been hearing too.

It hardly seems getting worked up over, especially if the Prothean's dialogue and story significance is the same, whether he's joining you for quests or not.

 

[cookyy2k]

From what I've read, the DLC was made after the game went to print.

They could be lying, I'll never know, but I'm not the type of person to start throwing around accusations without proof.

If this whole Prothean thing was planned to be in the game from the very start but then held back so they could milk some more cash out of the consumer, that's pretty low, but like I said, I'd need proof before I start blaming anyone.

Hmm, seems that law degree has made rather impartial. Impartiality is a nice thing, makes me feel...

Fair.

Well as far as I can make out the protean has always been in, as an NPC. The DLC lets you have him as a squad mate.

Indeed, that's what I've been hearing too.

It hardly seems getting worked up over, especially if the Prothean's dialogue and story significance is the same, whether he's joining you for quests or not.

Yeah I don't really see this as such a massive thing. It's just an incentive to buy CE and it's not like it's unavailable to everyone else. If the NPC case is true then you're not missing any story elements or important information by not having the DLC. It'll be at most a few one liners when shooting and a loyalty mission which probably wont contain anything in the way of an epiphany to the story. I'll have time to find out waiting to find a used copy anyway since no money of mine has gone to EA, and nor will it after what they did to poor westwood studios.

 

[Epona]

Which is funny since you've been replying to me pretty reliably, and now suddenly you're lost, and confused? It's not internet arguing, it's high school level debate.
If you're going to lose, do so with dignity, rather than trying to hide behind, "Oh, sorry if I don't pay attention to the childish argument that I'm taking part in".

Are you angry because I don't care who you are? Is it really so hard for you to believe that people read posts, not poster names?

You reply to me, I read it, I don't really care who you are. I know though, you can't imagine that.

 

[Epona]

No. To use the apples to oranges car analgoy, a new car comes with a drive train warranty. A used car does not.
New Alice came with a pass for the old one for free. Used Alice did not.
Incentive is not the same as with held.

It would be more accurate to compare it to a part of the car itself, not the service offered by the manufacturer, atleast for single player content that doesn't need multiplayer servers.

So, it would be like the manufacturer removing the air conditioner once the new buyer sold it.

 

[cookyy2k]

So, it would be like the manufacturer removing the air conditioner once the new buyer sold it.

I did that myself, bloody thing weighs a tonne. Besides which yes it is a good analogy.