Poll: Ask a Wrestling fan, for Non-Fans

[Otaku World Order]

BTW, Jeff's in jail.

Has this just happened? As I've just watched the TNA on the 16th of December and Hardy's on it, fighting Bully Ray.

Sorry, just getting ready for the future.
I boycott TNA, so what I do know about them is 2nd hand from 420chan's Wooo board.

Yeah, TNA doesn't know how to book for crap...

Jeff even getting a title shot at Genesis in January. Because Jeff as Champion worked out so well last time. /sarcasm

I asked a couple of questions a bit earlier in the thread about ECW and Money In The Bank. I don't know if you missed them or not.

AAA TV taping, 8/18/95 Queretaro
Oh look, wrestling Power Rangers.
I wonder if anyone has a question about them?

Whoa... Okay, who are those guys? And did they actually call themselves Power Rangers?

 

[Rooster893]

What exactly happened between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to kick off their extremely bitter feud?

How excited were you when you saw Kane return with his mask?

Is there any hope for TNA?

If you could push somebody in WWE, who would you push?

 

[Catfood220]

I have a couple of new questions:

1) I never saw the "original" ECW (aka the one that went broke). Was it really the sort of God company that fans make it out to be or is that just the nostalgia talking?

I was a massive fan of the original ECW back in the day, they were so far ahead of what WWE was doing at the time and WCW was trying to copy ECW style matches with what I hear were hilarious/cringe inducing results.

What these guys did was pretty insane too, I went on Youtube to find a good match to show you what it was all about and almost instantly found a barbed wire match between Sabu and Terry Funk (which I won't post the link to as I'm sure it'll break some forum rule, but I advise you to check it out if you aren't faint of heart) where as you can imagine the pair of them end up as 2 pieces of bleeding meat.

When I worked as a night porter in a hotel a few years back, I used to watch WWE after the guests had gone to bed, before it came on there was the ECW show, it was so dull it was heartbreaking, it just seemed like a dumping ground for useless wastes of space like Mark Henry.

Anyway, a forum friendly ECW match.

 

[SadakoMoose]

BTW, Jeff's in jail.

Has this just happened? As I've just watched the TNA on the 16th of December and Hardy's on it, fighting Bully Ray.

Sorry, just getting ready for the future.
I boycott TNA, so what I do know about them is 2nd hand from 420chan's Wooo board.

Yeah, TNA doesn't know how to book for crap...

Jeff even getting a title shot at Genesis in January. Because Jeff as Champion worked out so well last time. /sarcasm

I asked a couple of questions a bit earlier in the thread about ECW and Money In The Bank. I don't know if you missed them or not.

AAA TV taping, 8/18/95 Queretaro
Oh look, wrestling Power Rangers.
I wonder if anyone has a question about them?

Whoa... Okay, who are those guys? And did they actually call themselves Power Rangers?

Los Power Raiders
Blanco, Azul, Rojo, Verde, y Negro
They were a group of (at the time) fairly young Jr. Heavyweights that AAA promoter Antonio Pena (read Penya) was pushing around 1995. Within a few months Saban sued, but since the 5 happened to have good chemistry together, they were kept around in new costumes as...
Los Cadetes De Espacia

http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=File:LosCadetsEspacio.JPG

Venum (ex-Power Raider Verde/Green Power Ranger)
Ludxor (ex-Power Raider Negro/Black Power Ranger)
Discovery (ex-Power Raider Azul/Blue Power Ranger)
Frisbee (ex-Power Raider Rojo/Red Power Ranger)
Boomerang (ex-Power Raider Blanco/White Power Ranger)
+ Super Nova I, after awhile
They were fairly popular for a few years, breaking up in 1999 (having gone through 2 Venum's and 3 Super Novas)
They went their separate ways, and have fairly interesting "Where are they now?" stories.

Venum (Jullián Carrillo), after doing some opening matches for the WWF in 1997 and having a LEGENDARY feud with Super Crazy, lost his mask and now works as Venum Black.

Ludxor straight up disappeared after at IWRG show in 2000. It is said he no longer has any interest in wrestling.

Discovery, still masked, moved to Chicago and has never left. He helps run Lucha Libre Chicago

Frisbee (Jorge Vega Oriel) took on some more gimmicks afterwards, but kept losing his masks in Lucha de Apuestas fights. He now just works as Lasser, with no mask.

Boomerang (Jorge Rivera) became Skayde, and after years of international touring, helped train people at the Chikara Pro Wrestling Factory as well as at his own gimnasio in Xalapa. His best students, Turbo and Black Thunder, are staples on the Mexican indy scene.


There's a more in depth article here on Luchawiki:
http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=Los_Cadetes_Del_Espacio_%28AAA%29

They often fought against Los Rudos del Galaxia:
http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=Los_Rudos_De_La_Galaxia

Anyway, here's another classic AAA show from '97.
Nezahuacoyotl really is beautiful...

 

[SadakoMoose]

What exactly happened between Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to kick off their extremely bitter feud?

How excited were you when you saw Kane return with his mask?

Is there any hope for TNA?

If you could push somebody in WWE, who would you push?

1: Really, it amounts to Bret's occasional egotism conflicting with Shawn's massive Drug/Ego problem.
Skip ahead to :45 or so...

or it could have been this:


2: I missed out on the original masked Kane run. I didn't get into wrestling until I was 14, and even then it was through New Japan Pro Wrestling (NJPW, which is actually owned by Yuke's, the people that make the SvR games!) So yeah, my friends had Kane action figures when I was growing up, but I'd always get him mixed up with nWo Sting...

3: Yes, but it would require a total administrative shakedown and a complete pruning of the roster. Fire all current creative staff, fire all the "legends", and basically become a big budget Ring of Honor, but with more character. So, like a big budget PWG, really.
Personally, I wouldn't want to run the WWE or TNA. I'd want to give Chikara Pro a TV deal.

4: Really, I like that they're pushing Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Now, I'd turn the emphasis of the company to youth talent, maybe bring some young guys like Tyler Black up from developmental. The future of pro wrestling isn't with guys like John Cena or Randy Orton, but with agile, technically gifted wrestlers and high flyers. People have seen traditional American style heavy weight wrestlers for years now (and got more of their fill of them in the 90's), and I think it's time they were given something that fits more with modern day athletic expectations.

I have a couple of new questions:

1) I never saw the "original" ECW (aka the one that went broke). Was it really the sort of God company that fans make it out to be or is that just the nostalgia talking?

I was a massive fan of the original ECW back in the day, they were so far ahead of what WWE was doing at the time and WCW was trying to copy ECW style matches with what I hear were hilarious/cringe inducing results.

What these guys did was pretty insane too, I went on Youtube to find a good match to show you what it was all about and almost instantly found a barbed wire match between Sabu and Terry Funk (which I won't post the link to as I'm sure it'll break some forum rule, but I advise you to check it out if you aren't faint of heart) where as you can imagine the pair of them end up as 2 pieces of bleeding meat.

When I worked as a night porter in a hotel a few years back, I used to watch WWE after the guests had gone to bed, before it came on there was the ECW show, it was so dull it was heartbreaking, it just seemed like a dumping ground for useless wastes of space like Mark Henry.

Anyway, a forum friendly ECW match.

I feel so sorry for you, man. ECW on SciFi was a like New Jack beatdown to wrestling fans everywhere. At least there's Big Japan Pro Wrestling.

 

[SadakoMoose]

At what point did UFC force you to realise that Wrestling is never going to be 'exciting' again?

EDIT: That was not intended to be an outright diss. I think I've got a point. I should say though that I do not watch either 'sport'

Never.
UFC is the Wallpaper, Wrestling is the Carpet. It'd be a stupid idea to pit them against each other. Because then nobody wins, and you'd have to look an ugly ass room.

The problem with pro wrestling now, much the same with MMA now, is that all the eggs are basically in one basket.
When I ever I talk to people about Pro wrestling they go straight for "Oh, that WWE thing."
But, when I try to talk MMA I get blank looks. Until I say "UFC", at which point everybody gets it. Right now, the average, non MMA fan, probably only cares about a handful of fighters (or just one, in a Lesnar fan's case) and might only watch the UFC.
Me, I've watched PRIDE FC, Pancrase, Fighting Network RINGS, Kingdom, UWFi, Shooto, some Bellator, among others.
But when I try to talk to the UFC fans that I know IRL, they have no freaking clue who Kazushi Sakuraba is (despite the fact that he beat 4 different Gracies.) These guys are gonna get bored in a year or two, as things naturally tend to be, and MMA will have a down period. Maybe a company that can pose a SERIOUS challenge to the UFC will come around and make things interesting.

The problem with pro wrestling right now is that ONE company basically owns how the public sees the sport. ONE. The WWE has, for the last half decade, put out the most bland, watered down, UN-interesting product they can muster. They just HAPPEN to have the best production values, as well as a MASSIVE tape library, going back 6 decades, and spanning the lifetimes of more than 6 different companies that they've since purchased.
Things are getting better, with CREDIBLE and Entertaining athletes like Bryan Danielson and CM Punk being pushed to the top, but they still have a long way to go.

End of the day, nothing should exist in a vacuum.

Here's some Volk Han, via RINGS
We need more Russian Sambo guys in the UFC...

 

[SadakoMoose]

Do you think it's irresponsible that the WWE has not only failed to accept any responsibility for Chris Benoit's actions, but also pretends he didn't even work for them?

Though the media was screaming about steroids after the Benoit incident, it was soon proven that steroids had no role whatsoever. The likely cause appeared to have been the fact that Benoit had severe brain damage upon further inspection of his body. It was damage that almost certainly came as a result of his time in the WWE, and mirrored that of findings in several other athletes known to have gone on violent rampages.

Benoit did all of his stunts by his own will, but at the same time, it was public knowledge that he had suffered several major concussions and other injuries during his time in WWE, you would think they would follow up on that sort of stuff.

On a similar note, I really love this one video with Kevin Nash, makes the reporters look like idiots.

He should have never taken so many head shots.
While their initial reaction was slow, I do think that their cooperation with the Sports Legacy Institute, as well as their immediate removal of chair shots to the head were admirable.
The other reason I have such little nostalgia for the attitude era, aside from having been too little at the time, is due to all the excessively stupid things that happened during that period of time. All of those dumb TLC matches, all of that ECW copy catting they did, didn't serve to make the product better in the end, and all it really did was shorten a whole bunch of promising careers.
In many ways, I do think that the WWE should have been keeping a closer eye on him, though not all of his mental problems were necessarily head injury or substance abuse related. In his first book, Chris Jericho mentions that Benoit would often punish himself for having bad matches by doing hundreds of squats, and that he never laughed at too many jokes, unless it involved people falling down or getting hit.
Then there's this story:
So the problems might have been long standing, only worsened by years of Head drops and Drinking.
Sad story all around, but if WWE officials and road managers had maybe just looked at him better, took better care to check on his health or mental status, then they may have been able to prevent that tragedy.

 

[klovervibe]

I used to love wrestling when I was a kid. When people told me it was facke I told them to shut their f*****g mouths. But time wanes on and my interest faded. I can still see the draw, though the bits of what I've seen in the last five years or so are ridiculous. I'm talking about the wrestlers; they seem so needlessly over the top now. Is that accurate?

 

[SadakoMoose]

I used to love wrestling when I was a kid. When people told me it was facke I told them to shut their f*****g mouths. But time wanes on and my interest faded. I can still see the draw, though the bits of what I've seen in the last five years or so are ridiculous. I'm talking about the wrestlers; they seem so needlessly over the top now. Is that accurate?

To some extent.
Here, enjoy something good.
Ring of Honor is readily available on the internet, and on Sinclair owned affiliate networks.

Alternatively, If you're more into FUN and are more willing to suspend disbelief, Chikara Pro is for you too.

 

[SadakoMoose]

I have a couple of new questions:

1) I never saw the "original" ECW (aka the one that went broke). Was it really the sort of God company that fans make it out to be or is that just the nostalgia talking?

2) Is it just me or is the Money In The Bank concept really starting to suck? I found it really odd when Daniel Bryan cashed in his MitB at the TLC Pay Per View. Again, maybe it's just me, but when a guy who has been built up as a major babyface rushes out to pin a guy who's already beaten down and take his title it just seems off.

Oh, sorry I missed these.

The Original ECW had it's ups and downs.
This Cactus Jack MV package from 1995 should show a little bit of it:
Make sure to watch till end.

ECW may have sometimes overstepped the hardcore stuff (Sandman crucifixion incident, google it)
But keep in mind, they WERE the first American company to show fans things like Tajiri vs Super Crazy:

2: Yeah, it is getting played out. The idea of there being like a money in the bank briefcase, as a sort of Hot potato for the title scene is neat, but it's getting old.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Here's some Volk Han, via RINGS

See, that video is wrestling I can support. I am not interested in punch fests in the UFC, designed to give erections to all those hyper-violent fatass kids from Iowa and such, watching two guys pound each other's faces is not attractive. And WWE etc is just stupid, plain and simple.

But that's genuine wrestling with a relative lack of intention on the part of the contestants to remove the other guy's teeth.

Well then, here's some more.
Volk Han vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (Yes, THAT Fujiwara)

 

[SadakoMoose]

Oh look, it's Victor Zangiev in a match from the early 90's.
I wonder watch video game character HE inspired?
I wish someone would ask me this...

 

[SadakoMoose]

Can YOU identify most of the wrestlers in this video?
(Psst, I can)
Ask me more about Japan's Pro Wrestling?

 

[Catfood220]

Do you think it's irresponsible that the WWE has not only failed to accept any responsibility for Chris Benoit's actions, but also pretends he didn't even work for them?

Watching the Benoit thing unfold was fucking weird, I tuned into the the WWE show that night and to my surprise its a load of wrestlers singing the praises of Chris Benoit as well as some his classic matches, it doesn't take long to figure out that the guy has died, even Vince McMahon comes on to abandon the current angle where he was he was supposed to be dead having been "killed" in an explosion a couple of weeks earlier.

Then the whole story becomes known.

And nothing. Absolutely nothing. The WWE that had 24 hours previously been singing the praises of Chris Benoit had nothing to say about the matter other than the fact that Vince McMahon had mysteriously come back from the dead.

It was just so strange to watch an organisation go from "this guy was awesome" to "Chris who?" in a matter of hours, I don't think they even gave a good the reason for Vince McMahon being back, it was just a kind of "he's back...because...ummmmm...magic."

 

[SadakoMoose]

Do you think it's irresponsible that the WWE has not only failed to accept any responsibility for Chris Benoit's actions, but also pretends he didn't even work for them?

Watching the Benoit thing unfold was fucking weird, I tuned into the the WWE show that night and to my surprise its a load of wrestlers singing the praises of Chris Benoit as well as some his classic matches, it doesn't take long to figure out that the guy has died, even Vince McMahon comes on to abandon the current angle where he was he was supposed to be dead having been "killed" in an explosion a couple of weeks earlier.

Then the whole story becomes known.

And nothing. Absolutely nothing. The WWE that had 24 hours previously been singing the praises of Chris Benoit had nothing to say about the matter other than the fact that Vince McMahon had mysteriously come back from the dead.

It was just so strange to watch an organisation go from "this guy was awesome" to "Chris who?" in a matter of hours, I don't think they even gave a good the reason for Vince McMahon being back, it was just a kind of "he's back...because...ummmmm...magic."

Yeah, there were definitely better ways to handle it, but still you have to wonder how other organizations would have done it.
How would the NFL handle it if one of their players did that sort of thing like, JUST after winning the Super Bowl?
I still find it hard to watch matches from his WWF/WCW tenure. ECW, New Japan, CMLL, those I can handle, but not his US work.
Maybe I see "Pegasus Kid" as a different guy entirely than "The Rabid Wolverine"

 

[SadakoMoose]

What the hell does THIS guy have to do with The Son of the Legendary El Santo:
You could be asking this...right now
Why aren't you?

 

[SadakoMoose]

Who is THIS man, and what does he have to do with the history of Mixed Martial Arts?
I can answer that one, though it is fairly long...