Poll: Ask the Iron Ruler - Q&A with an Israeli Soldier

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TheIronRuler

New member
Mar 18, 2011
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How're you doing, escapists? I'm in the mood for sharing, so I'll be able to answer (most of) your questions concerning me and my life. Anything you wanted to know about your truly in relation to Judaism, Israel and the IDF - all wrapped into a neat bundle. Want to hear experiences from Israel? Hear about daily routine of an IDF infantry soldier? Hear about my moral and ethical dilemmas when in uniform? (concerning which fast-food place to eat at before the bus to my military base leaves) This is the place for you!
 

Barbas

ExQQxv1D1ns
Oct 28, 2013
33,804
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Well, this was unexpected...regarding the IDF, tell us about the rifle you use in your duties. What's its proper name? Is it reliable? Also, do you have any pleasant memories you wish to share from your training?

EDIT: Ooh, actually , Lionsfan reminded me to ask: are there any things you can get at popular fast food chains (e.g. McDonald's) that are unique to Israel?
 

Zontar

Mad Max 2019
Feb 18, 2013
4,931
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What is your general opinion on the settlements and settlers, and the image they give to your country in the eyes of the world? Little serious compared to the other questions, but I'm genuinely curious, since most Israelis I've met are fiercely opposed to them for one reason or another.
 

dyre

New member
Mar 30, 2011
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Hooray, I have lots of questions that I never got around to looking up.

A general question about militaries that someone from the IDF can probably answer: how does the relationship between a senior NCO and a lieutenant work? I mean, it always seemed odd to me that the guy fresh out of the officer's academy has higher authority over the guy who has been working alongside the troops for years...

Is it just me or does the Israeli government always make cryptic statements like "well, we're not saying it's not true, but we're not confirming it either" when asked about things like nukes and cyberattacks and bombing raids?

I have a friend who used to be in the IDF who I engage in friendly debate over the Israel/Palestine issue, and he seemed to be unaware that the PLO formerly recognized the State of Israel back with the Oslo Accords...is that not general knowledge over there?

Lastly, how did you guys manage to turn the rather nice looking AK-47 into the butt-ugly Galil?
 

TKhanman

New member
Mar 15, 2014
152
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How do you feel about Palestine and Palestinians? Also, what is life like in Israel?
(pretty generic questions I know)
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
4,647
0
0
Professional Interest,

How would you rate the professionalism/proficiency of those who are just serving their terms versus that of those who are making the IDF a career?

How do you think your average IDF soldier rank up against that of other armies such as the Egyptian, Jordanian, or those of western countries like the US, Germany, and France? As far as training and proficiency go anyway.

Is the Tavor a good rifle? In comparison to the M16s? You guys have a lot of the A2s if I recall correctly.

What job(I don't know the Israeli equivalent of MOS/AFSC) are you serving in? Infantry? Armor? Supply? Intel?

How often do IDF soldiers train with their weapons? What about those who are in non-combat arms?

Is there any serious service rivalry between the Land, Air, and Sea branches of the IDF?

Do you think the IDF would be ready for an extended major conflict with another country such as Egypt or Iran seeing as Israel's strategy for most of it's large wars has been massive reserve call ups. Unless something has changed since the 73' war.

How well do women perform in the IDF? Is it common for them to be sent into combat on purpose or are they kept in support roles? I'm woefully ignorant on this topic.

How do you rate your equipment on average?

Personal Interest
What do you think about Israel's policy concerning settlements in the West Bank?

Do you prefer a one or two state solution?

Do you think that the situation in Syria may boil over into Israel more then it already has?

How do you reconcile your personal Atheism(if I recall correctly) and the fact you do fight for a Jewish state? Is the simple fact that it is the most modern and enlightened country in the region enough?

I could go on, but I think I've already asked enough!
 

TheIronRuler

New member
Mar 18, 2011
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Lionsfan said:
What's your favorite ice cream?
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Vanilla with pieces of Oreo cookies.
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Barbas said:
Well, this was unexpected...regarding the IDF, tell us about the rifle you use in your duties. What's its proper name? Is it reliable? Also, do you have any pleasant memories you wish to share from your training?

EDIT: Ooh, actually , Lionsfan reminded me to ask: are there any things you can get at popular fast food chains (e.g. McDonald's) that are unique to Israel?
.
I use the M16A4, but that's just because my unit is too lazy to sign me on an M4. I'm not bothered with it. The M16 is lighter, which is a life saver whenever you need to crawl around with the gun. There are three versions of the M16 - the long, short, and shorter. We use the short, the long had been recently retired and the shorter is for the Tankists.

My Regiment (Kfir) together with the Paratroopers are the only ones in the infantry branch who hadn't come around to their senses and embraced the Tavor (CTAR-21). Then again, it might be that the bull-up rifle isn't suited for our general use. It's usually safe to listen to the red berets, but who am I to tell? I'm just a sergeant.

My training doesn't have any pleasant memories with me, sorry. It's all dirt eating, dirt groveling and sweating blood. We were geographically in the hottest place on Israel, which placed at around 46 degrees Celsius in the shade at average. Some days it came to 50 - you could have cooked an egg on the sidewalk.

Hmm... McDonalds has the McKebab, but I usually avoid eating there when I can. When it comes down to it, I prefer eating at a good Shawarma joint over McDonalds. A lot of meat, pickles, onions, and as spicy as it gets, my steaming hot laffa bread will make your eyes water... Hmmm.... Shawarma.
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Zontar said:
What is your general opinion on the settlements and settlers, and the image they give to your country in the eyes of the world? Little serious compared to the other questions, but I'm genuinely curious, since most Israelis I've met are fiercely opposed to them for one reason or another.
.
When I was in high-school, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_attack) happened. It was a terrible massacre. Our computer teacher slipped and accidentally spent ten minutes discussion the ordeal. Being the innocent little lefty I was, I asked - "Well, why are they there in the first place?".

Now I'm protecting them from the locals.

I'm torn. Before my service I never knew them as 'people'. They were just this mystic force who would foolishly set up shop somewhere they KNOW would get evicted in the future. Some of them continue building, continue provoking the locals just for the lols. That's how I felt back then - but now? They're just people. I live in the oldest neighborhoods in Israel - the first colonies came around a hundred and fifty years ago (Petah Tikva and Rishon LeZion). This place is a hundred and twenty years old. You can't even imagine it had been built on some obscure Arab village, its land grabbed from elsewhere... I live next to a mixed city, that of Haifa, and the place is just fantastic. I don't understand how you could separate the two people so much.
They're mostly good people - like any other. They invite us into their homes for the Sabbath, give out encouragements and always smile. When I get back past the green line people grumble at me on the bus or train. Lefties come at us to protest, when I've been in three different occasions when I stopped terrorists from going over with knives or guns with them. Would they protest when a bomb goes off in center Tel-Aviv? Oh, it would be in the news for a week, yet when three arabs stab settlers to death it's only merely mentioned, as if it's not really happening in Israel... The media shapes public opinion, but public opinion is overwhelmingly in favor for the settlers (unlike that of the media).
...I just want to get back home and away from all of that mess.

The world had already condemned us countless times. It doesn't matter that the other side sins even more. It doesn't matter we own it, and it is the homeland of the Jewish people - a friend of mine said that the same laws apply to Hebron and Tzfad (Safed). We're marked - the settlements are illegal, those living in them are religious fanatics and the Israeli government is eeeeevil. Then again, we wouldn't be liked either way, occupied territories or none.
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Sleekit said:
how's your social life ?

seriously.

i wanna know if there's some lethal hunny looking out for you down the canteen :p
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I don't have a girlfriend. It's hard to maintain one when you've got so little free time.
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dyre said:
Hooray, I have lots of questions that I never got around to looking up.

A general question about militaries that someone from the IDF can probably answer: how does the relationship between a senior NCO and a lieutenant work? I mean, it always seemed odd to me that the guy fresh out of the officer's academy has higher authority over the guy who has been working alongside the troops for years...

Is it just me or does the Israeli government always make cryptic statements like "well, we're not saying it's not true, but we're not confirming it either" when asked about things like nukes and cyberattacks and bombing raids?

I have a friend who used to be in the IDF who I engage in friendly debate over the Israel/Palestine issue, and he seemed to be unaware that the PLO formerly recognized the State of Israel back with the Oslo Accords...is that not general knowledge over there?

Lastly, how did you guys manage to turn the rather nice looking AK-47 into the butt-ugly Galil?
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Depends on the people in uniform. A lieutenant fresh from academy is looked upon as a young, inexperienced hot-head, and they usually are. NCOs under their service often have to teach them things (how it really goes on in real life). Sometimes they try to reign them in too harshly, and you get into a pickle - the officer can screw over his soldiers, but the soldiers can royally fuck him regardless (if they come together). If there's chemistry between them it's all sunshine and lollipops. If not... prepare for the worse.

The Israeli government is in a habit of not admitting to acts of aggression on its neighbors, since, y'know, it's acts of aggression not during a war.

The PLO recognized Israel in the Oslo Accords (but not as "a jewish country"). The Oslo Accords are a worthless piece of trash nowadays. It also said that the PLO can't change its status (to that of statehood) while the negotiations go on, and the two sides pissed on the agreement a thousand and one times. Plus, the demand for recognizing Israel as "A Jewish Country" is on purpose - it would put the PLO leadership at odds with the rest of the freaking Arab and Muslim world that hates our guts... Even though Arafat did that. They're still traumatized from the Kuwait exodus.
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TKhanman said:
How do you feel about Palestine and Palestinians? Also, what is life like in Israel?
(pretty generic questions I know)
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On one hand - Jewish Homeland - on the other - a lot of Arabs. Is there a middle-ground?
Well, Hagit, are you willing to have thirteen children? No? then we're in a pickle.

Life in Israel is schizophrenic. It's an upbeat, sunny, middle-eastern country on the med with lively people - and also a place where you're likely to get stabbed for a parking space or killed by a marauding murderous arab with a hatchet.

You should be more specific if you want better answers... there's just so much to cover.
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Shock and Awe said:
Professional Interest,

How would you rate the professionalism/proficiency of those who are just serving their terms versus that of those who are making the IDF a career?

How do you think your average IDF soldier rank up against that of other armies such as the Egyptian, Jordanian, or those of western countries like the US, Germany, and France? As far as training and proficiency go anyway.

Is the Tavor a good rifle? In comparison to the M16s? You guys have a lot of the A2s if I recall correctly.

What job(I don't know the Israeli equivalent of MOS/AFSC) are you serving in? Infantry? Armor? Supply? Intel?

How often do IDF soldiers train with their weapons? What about those who are in non-combat arms?

Is there any serious service rivalry between the Land, Air, and Sea branches of the IDF?

Do you think the IDF would be ready for an extended major conflict with another country such as Egypt or Iran seeing as Israel's strategy for most of it's large wars has been massive reserve call ups. Unless something has changed since the 73' war.

How well do women perform in the IDF? Is it common for them to be sent into combat on purpose or are they kept in support roles? I'm woefully ignorant on this topic.

How do you rate your equipment on average?

Personal Interest
What do you think about Israel's policy concerning settlements in the West Bank?

Do you prefer a one or two state solution?

Do you think that the situation in Syria may boil over into Israel more then it already has?

How do you reconcile your personal Atheism(if I recall correctly) and the fact you do fight for a Jewish state? Is the simple fact that it is the most modern and enlightened country in the region enough?

I could go on, but I think I've already asked enough!
.
Officers in Infantry go through unimaginable difficulties in their training. They are supposed to lead their soldiers, and are the best at what they do. They are most fit, best trained with all the weapons they come by and know their tactics well. That said, officers aren't always god-like creatures that kill enemies with their gaze. They can be cowards, stupid, heartless and stubborn. Blokes doing their 3 years vary in fitness, proficiency with their arms and their devotion to getting shot at (or pelted with rocks). Sometimes we're better or as good as any officers, other times we're nervous wrecks that just want to get this shit over with. Overall, the rate of deaths (officers to non officers) is much higher in the Israeli army than in others. They are taught to charge first, and usually get hit with the first bullet.

We're better than our neighbors. Regarding modern western armies like that of Germany and the US, I'm not sure. I don't know much about those armies, their training, equipment, etc.

I haven't gotten around to fucking around with the Tavor. Sorry, mate. Can't help you there.

I'm Infantry. I'm a combat medic, meaning that I get to patch up any arab I beat up or shoot at - huzzah.

Before we leave the base for home there's a whole day where we screw around with our weapons, exercise and patch up our equipment (if we haven't gotten around to it). We do a more thorough job between each new placement (we rotate our sectors, for example I was in Bethlehem, then in Egypt, then in Qalqilya).

Not that I know of... we're glad the air and navy bombs the targets before we charge in, it makes our jobs easier. That said, we don't like other land units in peacetime - tankists (Armored), Batteries (Artillery) and Palhatch (Rescuers) give us a bad name...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57yj6DOAaRs
That's our armored divisions, if I'm not mistaken.
Do you know what we would do in their situation?
We kick their teeth in.

We have a love-hate relationship with the special units. They're awesome and we want to be like them, but they're sometimes pompous and take all of the glory.

I personally adore the border police. They do the dirtiest job imaginable. A lot of my friends share the same opinion.

Israel can't go into conflict with Iran, but it can crush Egypt or Syria. The problem would be knowing how far to go and what goals to achieve.

Women do an alright job - a few stand up with the men, serve in combat units, even infantry. They're often a sight for sore eyes. *grins* It depends on the person and what she wants to do in the army. Of course it's easier to stay in support - you serve less time in the army, and have a much easier time there. It's an option you can volunteer for. I didn't volunteer for infantry, I just got there.

Hmm... My equipment is mostly a US Army surplus store, so I would say roughly 6 out of 10, with the US being 9 out of 10.

I dislike Israel's policy in the west bank. I don't support further expansion, but I can't imagine pulling back so many people and leaving everything behind. We did it once and got Hamas&missiles, not peace.

A three state solution, where the three states are Israel, Jordan and Gaza. I like innovation, sue me.

The situation in Syria will boil over. Hezbollah is getting territory there and opening another frontier with us (Golan Heights) and the local militias don't really like us. I doubt it would explode, but we're worryingly following developments over there.

I am an atheist. I fight for my family and friends and their right to live in a Jewish country. I don't mind the paradox - I am not an 'anti-theist', and I am on good terms with religious friends. I dislike the faith shoved down my throat, but respect Judaism and see it as a part of my identity. *points to Jabotinsky*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ze'ev_Jabotinsky
I like his ideas very much.
 

JET1971

New member
Apr 7, 2011
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Sleekit said:
i somehow feel societally let down that i'll never encounter a "McKebab"...
Count your blessings is the rule of thumb if you never encounter a Mc anything from Mcdonalds.

I would ask on how you feel about peace with the Palestinians and Gaza strip but you already answered it in minor detail but can you elaborate and is it a common opinion amongst the fellow troops?
 

TheIronRuler

New member
Mar 18, 2011
4,283
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AwesomeHatMan said:
When, if ever, do you think the conflict will end and what will the result be?
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The cynic in me says the conflict will never end. I have three different possibilities in mind, do mind this is very simplified - one, peace is reached, two entities are born within the mandate territory and they live side by side in constant terror and anticipation. two, only one entity exists, which denies non-jews their rights. three, a federation emerges within the territories, encompassing both occupier and occupied as equals, inviting neighbors to the fold (Jordan). What I think would happen? A lot more violence, a lot more death, a lot more politics and changing of a patron for Israel...
Who knows, maybe an immigration wave would change reality as we know it?
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JET1971 said:
Sleekit said:
i somehow feel societally let down that i'll never encounter a "McKebab"...
Count your blessings is the rule of thumb if you never encounter a Mc anything from Mcdonalds.

I would ask on how you feel about peace with the Palestinians and Gaza strip but you already answered it in minor detail but can you elaborate and is it a common opinion amongst the fellow troops?
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I want peace - but with whom? Would the peace be with the nation of Palestine made on these territories or would it be peace with the people living in it? I prefer the latter.
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Adam Jensen said:
In your honest opinion, what should be done to solve the West Bank settlement problem?
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Annex, dissect, sell to Jordan and established independent&loyal client states. Does it sound evil? Yes. Will it happen? Never in a million years.

I once joked to a friend that if we move the tomb of Rabbi Nachman (Of Breslav) to Hebron we would make the city mostly Jewish in a year.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
19,538
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Hmmm...do you carry pistols as sidearms, and, if so, what do you think of them, or having pistols in general? Also, are you trained in the Israeli Draw, or have they gotten rid of that?
 

AwesomeHatMan

New member
Jul 24, 2012
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(Not sure if all these questions are relevant/realistic but curious nonetheless)

What are wounds do you typically treat?

How frequently do you have to treat wounded?

Have you personally ever been wounded on duty?

Aside from treating wounded as a medic do you also on occasion have to act as a regular soldier?

If so, have you ever killed an enemy combatant and how did the experience differ to how you would have expected?
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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- Have things calmed down (y'know, relatively speaking) in that part of the world over the past five years or so? I seem to hear about it a lot less in the news these days, but I'm not sure if that's because it's cooling off or because a news outlet can only sell the same story of "Palastinians fire some rockets, Israelis shoot some protestors" so many times.

- Are you familiar with how the conflict is covered and regarded elsewhere in the world? If so, do you think it is accurate? If not, how is in inaccurate?

- Do you think the Palestinians/Arabs have a legiitimate reason for taking up arms or do you think your people are generally in the right? Or a bit of both? Or is it just a, "We have the power here, so fuck you and to hell with the ethics" situation?

- Do you think the Palestinians/Arabs have an alternative to violence? It seems to me that if they stopped fighting they'd just get quietly screwed in a corner and have their territory slowly annexed out from under them.
 

Josh123914

They'll fix it by "Monday"
Nov 17, 2009
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-If Israel was given control of the West Bank and Gaza tomorrow, what do you think should be done with the Palestinians? This includes housing, civil liberties, all that jazz.

-Do you believe it's right for Israel to be a Jewish State? Obvious answer is Yes, but states centered around religions don't always seem to be the fairest of countries (read: your neighbors) so is it fair for this Jewish state to dictate under law things like the Sabbath to non-Jews (and I don't mean just muslims, I'm talking Christians, Atheists, you name it)

- What would your opinion be on a Palestine as a member State of the UN, and its implications for Israel's foreign policy?(eg. settlements on West Bank) It is my understanding that many Israelis wouldn't mind a 2-state resolution, but there are some zionists in government offices that really don't want that to happen.

- Do you think Israel should still be receiving aid from the USA? Its my understanding they still are, and it doesn't look like Israel needs it (bar military funding)


Wow these are some heavy questions, I'll end with a light one:
- Where do you live?
Ok, that sounds creepy, narrow it down to a city or region I guess, what I'm really asking is what the weather's like there.
Northern Ireland here, sunny but cold (mid-April ffs), sounds like if you're gonna fight for The Promised Land there'd better be some kick-ass beaches and areas of not-desert.
 

shootthebandit

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May 20, 2009
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Why cant you all just get along? Is it really that hard to have 3 different religions living in the same country? Its basically all the same religions anyway, christainity is basically just a judaism expansion pack. Islam is basically just christianity with a different protagonist. Religion is just one huge mash-up anyway, for instance today is easter a christian holiday that is named after a pagan god of fertility (Eastre). In the same way that christmas happens to coincide with the pagan winter solstice festival

Theres people being born into this shit with no recollection of what happened in the 50s or 60s except from the biased accounts from their parents and grandparents and it only perpetuates things. Surely the world has matured enough for us to be able to coincide. I bet its just a small number of islamic and zionist extremists who ruin it for everyone
 

TheIronRuler

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Mar 18, 2011
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thaluikhain said:
Hmmm...do you carry pistols as sidearms, and, if so, what do you think of them, or having pistols in general? Also, are you trained in the Israeli Draw, or have they gotten rid of that?
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Nope. Special forces & Border Police get to carry sidearms, I use my trusty M16 (alongside a combat knife and a club).

I don't use a handgun. I wish I had. Sorry.
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AwesomeHatMan said:
(Not sure if all these questions are relevant/realistic but curious nonetheless)

What are wounds do you typically treat?

How frequently do you have to treat wounded?

Have you personally ever been wounded on duty?

Aside from treating wounded as a medic do you also on occasion have to act as a regular soldier?

If so, have you ever killed an enemy combatant and how did the experience differ to how you would have expected?
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I'm first a combatant, and then a medic. I treated injuries from rock-throwers (open wounds, head injuries), high drops (civilians breaking bones, open fractures, spine injuries) and knife wounds (slices, jabs, etc.). I haven't been shot at yet, thank god. I don't treat wounds frequently... Maybe half a down times in a span of two-three months.

I've never been seriously injured in duty. I few cuts and bumps don't count, I sometimes get clumsy.

I am a regular soldier, period. I'm a regular soldier that got medical training, that's all.

I never killed anyone in my life.
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Zhukov said:
- Have things calmed down (y'know, relatively speaking) in that part of the world over the past five years or so? I seem to hear about it a lot less in the news these days, but I'm not sure if that's because it's cooling off or because a news outlet can only sell the same story of "Palastinians fire some rockets, Israelis shoot some protestors" so many times.

- Are you familiar with how the conflict is covered and regarded elsewhere in the world? If so, do you think it is accurate? If not, how is in inaccurate?

- Do you think the Palestinians/Arabs have a legiitimate reason for taking up arms or do you think your people are generally in the right? Or a bit of both? Or is it just a, "We have the power here, so fuck you and to hell with the ethics" situation?

- Do you think the Palestinians/Arabs have an alternative to violence? It seems to me that if they stopped fighting they'd just get quietly screwed in a corner and have their territory slowly annexed out from under them.
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Less deadly than the early 2000s. Much, much, less deadly. It never rests, and there are always clashes between the two, but it doesn't go to the general media because it's just normal. A bloke getting shot for trying to cut the fence, a soldier being abducted and murdered for a deal to free prisoners, it's just... old news. I hear about it all of the time, but I'm not surprised outsiders aren't aware of it.

I am somewhat familiar. The Palestinians are shown as holy martyrs fighting evil oppressors and us as western imperialist pigs out to grab land, make matzos out of children and rape women. That's at least how I sum up the guardian. The BBC is a bit less in your face about it. You think for yourself if I find that description accurate.

Yes - embrace Jews as neighbors and live with them peacefully. Since that's not going to happen, we ought to fight some more. "Their territory" is a lot of empty spaces and desert. It's cringe-worthy, but I can compare it to American settlers seeing all of that land and using it, since it seems to them nobody is using it. We haven't gotten around to kicking people out of their homes and demolishing entire villages for the lulz.
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Josh12345 said:
-If Israel was given control of the West Bank and Gaza tomorrow, what do you think should be done with the Palestinians? This includes housing, civil liberties, all that jazz.

-Do you believe it's right for Israel to be a Jewish State? Obvious answer is Yes, but states centered around religions don't always seem to be the fairest of countries (read: your neighbors) so is it fair for this Jewish state to dictate under law things like the Sabbath to non-Jews (and I don't mean just muslims, I'm talking Christians, Atheists, you name it)

- What would your opinion be on a Palestine as a member State of the UN, and its implications for Israel's foreign policy?(eg. settlements on West Bank) It is my understanding that many Israelis wouldn't mind a 2-state resolution, but there are some zionists in government offices that really don't want that to happen.

- Do you think Israel should still be receiving aid from the USA? Its my understanding they still are, and it doesn't look like Israel needs it (bar military funding)


Wow these are some heavy questions, I'll end with a light one:
- Where do you live?
Ok, that sounds creepy, narrow it down to a city or region I guess, what I'm really asking is what the weather's like there.
Northern Ireland here, sunny but cold (mid-April ffs), sounds like if you're gonna fight for The Promised Land there'd better be some kick-ass beaches and areas of not-desert.
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As was done between 67 and 93.

Judaism is a religion. Jews as a group need a homeland, a place where they can be safe and protected by their own army. WW2 taught was that. Only we can be responsible for the fate of our people. It is easier living in Israel as a Jew. All of your neighbors are Jews, everything you buy is already Kosher, you have no difficulty leading your own way of life... Israel doesn't press its religion on non-Jews, and other religions govern themselves when it comes down to religious laws (here's a secret - we have some shariah law for Muslims and Islamic courts, as long as they don't go against the state's laws).

Palestine is already a member state of the UN. It's a figment of the imagination, but it's still the case. Israel is suffering greatly from it in the diplomatic arena.

The US is welcomed to help us out, and we are also welcoming military aid from Germany, of all things. The more we can get, the better, really. That is to say, had I been an American, I would have disliked this whole ordeal, but as the receiver of donations, here me say - thank you very much, and come again!

Hot, Sunny and lovely beaches make the bay area in Israel one of my favorites.