Poll: Asperger Syndrome [please vote, even if you don't know what it is]

[Seldon2639]

Depends. If they fulfill the other requirements, I would. But I also wouldn't force a middle school student to treat the autistic kid more like a friend. Professionally, any contributions they can make may be very useful. Socially, we shouldn't be trying to force people to accept them.

I'm also against ESL accommodations, just so you don't think I'm being unfair. One of the requirements to be part of American society (and most schools/businesses) is the ability to communicate. Unless the person in question's thoughts are so original and brilliant that to miss them would be something unquestionably bad (a la Steven Hawking), they need to accommodate themselves to the school/business, not the other way around.

Ah, I see. I'm Canadian, and I come from a school where we get a lot of kids from Asia (coughChinacough) who don't speak much English. I feel like the difference between thinking a kid is shy or arrogant and knowing they're actually really outgoing, they're just embarrassed that they can't say anything is analogous to thinking someone with autism is being rude to you because they won't look at you or speak and knowing that they just don't know they're being rude.

The argument is not to "force" people to accept each others' differences, it's that people should be educated so they can understand that we're different only in circumstance.

That's fair, but it's not really complete. We're not all different only in circumstance. Some people are unequivocally taller than me, or smarter than me, or faster than me, or better looking than me. And some people are worse than I am in those areas. If someone has autism, or asperger's, they're different on a far more primal level than circumstance. They are different, and in some areas worse. To ask people to treat them the same is to ask people to act injustly.

 

[Seldon2639]

IQ is no indicator for intelligence.
Its an indicator of how well you can play tetris.

It was an example, but it's well known that many famous scientists had Aspergers.

And many famous scientists were just anitsocial...
Is there any REAL proof of aspergers on for example isaac newton?

Einstein had simillar problems (he didnt talk till he was like six if i remember correctly), but was it really aspergers?

Is there any real proof that Jesus existed, no, but I'll post some info on why they could have had it, theres records of people you know.

Following info copy pasted of this site: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

Spoiler

Albert Einstein provided the theory of relativity and was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for the work he did with photoelectric effect. Characteristics, which may indicate that Einstein was a fellow Aspie, Einstein could not speak fluently at the age of nine, language delays are common in children with high functioning autism. His parents suspected that he might actually be mentally retarded.

Often, children with Autism are labeled Mentally Retarded or Behaviorally Disordered. At the ceremony of induction as an American, Einstein attended without socks. Children and adults with autism and Asperger's Syndrome often have peculiar habits, extreme sensitivity to textures, and are often rated "high" on scales measuring atypicality, demonstrating odd behaviors, and seemingly lost in their own little world. Frequently, children with Asperger's struggle with finding socks that "feel right" or with a line at the toe that doesn't not bother them.

Isaac Newton dropped out of school as a teenager. A person with Asperger's may not be able to accept rules in school if they appear illogical, pursuing a point or argument "as a matter of principle," which can lead "to a significant conflict with teachers and school authorities".

Benjamin Franklin was considered to be one of the most important of the founding fathers of our country. He was a theorist, author, politician, scientist, activist, and diplomat. His scientific contributions included physics, discovery of electricity, and theories regarding electricity. He was also the first head of the post office. Indicating the potential need for rigid rule and order, with sorting tendencies. "Benjamin Franklin's peers did not give him the assignment of writing the Declaration of Independence because they feared that he would conceal a joke in it." Aspies are notorious for an extreme or different sense of humor.

I was trying to find the source for all of the "famous people with asperger's/autism", but it just references "Botham", without providing a works cited. Amazingly, the only "Botham" I can find connected with "Autism" or "Asperger's" are different sites with the same list of famous people. This doesn't feel well-researched. I'm not counting this as proof until I can find some independent assessment, or at least find this mysterious Botham and determine his research methods.

Edit: found him. He's not a historian, much less someone making claims about these people having asperger's/autism. He wrote "The Book of Useless Information". Basically, these sites took actual historical records of people, found anecdotes about them that conform to existing symptoms of asperger's/autism, and called it proof. I call bulls***. I'd wager any one of us have some anecdotes which "prove" we have asperger's or autism, but it's not about isolated incidents. Isaac Newton dropped out of school, and it turns out that people with asperger's may have problems with rules and authority. That's seriously how they draw the conclusion that Newton had Asperger's. So, I guess everyone who drops out has Asperger's. This is more prevalent that I thought.

Or it's bullocks.

 

[tthor]

From what I know, Benjamin Franklin, Isaac Newton, and Albert Einstein all supposibly had it in some form.

Napoleon Bonaparte, George Washington, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Andrew Johnson, Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, Teddy Roosevelt, William Taft, Harry Truman, Louis IV, Cleopatra, Peter the Great, Wilhem II, Alexander the Great, Leonardo da Vinci, Vincent van Gogh, Beethoven, Elvis, Jeremy Bentham, Socrates, Henry Ford, Bill Gates, Robin Williams, Tom Hanks, Marilyn Monroe, Clark Gable, Virginia Woolf, Shakespeare, Hans Christian Anderson, Goethe, Isaac Asimov, Charles Dickinson, Galileo, Michael Palin, Alfred Hitchcock, Jane Austen, Henry Cavendish, Charles Darwin, Satoshi Tajiri, Jim Henson, Charles Schulz, Thomas Jefferson, Michelangelo, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, George Orwell, Dan Aykroyd, Thomas Edison, Woody Allen,
---all of which had great detail supporting why they are believed to have aspergers, but if i listed it all, this post would continue on for ages

(just to name a few)

 

[nikomas1]

IQ is no indicator for intelligence.
Its an indicator of how well you can play tetris.

It was an example, but it's well known that many famous scientists had Aspergers.

And many famous scientists were just anitsocial...
Is there any REAL proof of aspergers on for example isaac newton?

Einstein had simillar problems (he didnt talk till he was like six if i remember correctly), but was it really aspergers?

Is there any real proof that Jesus existed, no, but I'll post some info on why they could have had it, theres records of people you know.

Following info copy pasted of this site: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

Spoiler

Albert Einstein provided the theory of relativity and was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for the work he did with photoelectric effect. Characteristics, which may indicate that Einstein was a fellow Aspie, Einstein could not speak fluently at the age of nine, language delays are common in children with high functioning autism. His parents suspected that he might actually be mentally retarded.

Often, children with Autism are labeled Mentally Retarded or Behaviorally Disordered. At the ceremony of induction as an American, Einstein attended without socks. Children and adults with autism and Asperger's Syndrome often have peculiar habits, extreme sensitivity to textures, and are often rated "high" on scales measuring atypicality, demonstrating odd behaviors, and seemingly lost in their own little world. Frequently, children with Asperger's struggle with finding socks that "feel right" or with a line at the toe that doesn't not bother them.

Isaac Newton dropped out of school as a teenager. A person with Asperger's may not be able to accept rules in school if they appear illogical, pursuing a point or argument "as a matter of principle," which can lead "to a significant conflict with teachers and school authorities".

Benjamin Franklin was considered to be one of the most important of the founding fathers of our country. He was a theorist, author, politician, scientist, activist, and diplomat. His scientific contributions included physics, discovery of electricity, and theories regarding electricity. He was also the first head of the post office. Indicating the potential need for rigid rule and order, with sorting tendencies. "Benjamin Franklin's peers did not give him the assignment of writing the Declaration of Independence because they feared that he would conceal a joke in it." Aspies are notorious for an extreme or different sense of humor.

I was trying to find the source for all of the "famous people with asperger's/autism", but it just references "Botham", without providing a works cited. Amazingly, the only "Botham" I can find connected with "Autism" or "Asperger's" are different sites with the same list of famous people. This doesn't feel well-researched. I'm not counting this as proof until I can find some independent assessment, or at least find this mysterious Botham and determine his research methods.

I think it's a book, i don't really know.

 

[Seldon2639]

[/quote]I think it's a book, i don't really know.[/quote]

Sorry, I wasn't fast enough:

Found him. He's not a historian, much less someone making claims about these people having asperger's/autism. He wrote "The Book of Useless Information". Basically, these sites took actual historical records of people, found anecdotes about them that conform to existing symptoms of asperger's/autism, and called it proof. I call bulls***. I'd wager any one of us have some anecdotes which "prove" we have asperger's or autism, but it's not about isolated incidents. Isaac Newton dropped out of school, and it turns out that people with asperger's may have problems with rules and authority. That's seriously how they draw the conclusion that Newton had Asperger's. So, I guess everyone who drops out has Asperger's. This is more prevalent that I thought.

Or it's bullocks. Franklin might have put a joke in the declaration of independence. And those with asperger's have strange senses of humor. Where's the connection there, much less the definitive proof. This is one continued example of shoddy research methods.

 

[Florion]

That's fair, but it's not really complete. We're not all different only in circumstance. Some people are unequivocally taller than me, or smarter than me, or faster than me, or better looking than me. And some people are worse than I am in those areas. If someone has autism, or asperger's, they're different on a far more primal level than circumstance. They are different, and in some areas worse. To ask people to treat them the same is to ask people to act injustly.

>.< They're worse in some ways. But so are other people. Just treat them and their weaknesses the way you would treat any other person with any weakness. You work around it. Obviously, someone with autism probably won't do well in law school, but someone will be angry with me if I were to say, "Hey, I'm not going to be your friend because your singing voice is crap."

I remember I had misgivings about becoming friends with my long-lost half-brother because he has Asperger's and you can tell by the way he talks that he doesn't quite "get" it. But he kept in persistent contact with me, and I realized he's actually very brave and kind. You shouldn't dismiss someone just because they seem a little odd. It doesn't prevent you from having a meaningful relationship with them.

 

[Seldon2639]

Depends. If they fulfill the other requirements, I would. But I also wouldn't force a middle school student to treat the autistic kid more like a friend. Professionally, any contributions they can make may be very useful. Socially, we shouldn't be trying to force people to accept them.

I'm also against ESL accommodations, just so you don't think I'm being unfair. One of the requirements to be part of American society (and most schools/businesses) is the ability to communicate. Unless the person in question's thoughts are so original and brilliant that to miss them would be something unquestionably bad (a la Steven Hawking), they need to accommodate themselves to the school/business, not the other way around.

Ah, I see. I'm Canadian, and I come from a school where we get a lot of kids from Asia (coughChinacough) who don't speak much English. I feel like the difference between thinking a kid is shy or arrogant and knowing they're actually really outgoing, they're just embarrassed that they can't say anything is analogous to thinking someone with autism is being rude to you because they won't look at you or speak and knowing that they just don't know they're being rude.

The argument is not to "force" people to accept each others' differences, it's that people should be educated so they can understand that we're different only in circumstance.

That's fair, but it's not really complete. We're not all different only in circumstance. Some people are unequivocally taller than me, or smarter than me, or faster than me, or better looking than me. And some people are worse than I am in those areas. If someone has autism, or asperger's, they're different on a far more primal level than circumstance. They are different, and in some areas worse. To ask people to treat them the same is to ask people to act injustly.

>.< They're worse in some ways. But so are other people. Just treat them and their weaknesses the way you would treat any other person with any weakness. You work around it. Obviously, someone with autism probably won't do well in law school, but someone will be angry with me if I were to say, "Hey, I'm not going to be your friend because your singing voice is crap."

I remember I had misgivings about becoming friends with my long-lost half-brother because he has Asperger's and you can tell by the way he talks that he doesn't quite "get" it. But he kept in persistent contact with me, and I realized he's actually very brave and kind. You shouldn't dismiss someone just because they seem a little odd. It doesn't prevent you from having a meaningful relationship with them.

Full stop. "Treat them and their weaknesses the way you would treat any other person with any weakness. You work around it". That's a fine attitude for you to have, and as a personal choice, that's fine. But it's a rather silly normative judgement to believe that *everyone* should make that same choice. If I don't want to spend time with people who don't "get it", aside from a phony morality that we should have a smile and flower for all the perfect little snowflakes, there's no reason for me to change.

News flash, not everyone is equal. Not everyone is special, or has a gift that makes up for their flaws. If someone is brilliant enough to make up for deficiencies in other areas, I might accept them, and society might accept them, but save for something exceptional to overcome their natural flaws, there's no reason not to shun them. People use asperger's as an excuse for being more flawed with less culpability than other people, and that's crap.

 

[Turing]

I went to boarding school with a guy that had Aspergers. Nice guy, a bit odd though. We laughed a bit at him at times and he laughed right along with us, cause we were all weird at one point or another, he was just a bit more weird at times. He's not exactly having a normal life now though, not capable of holding a regular job, but studies all sorts of interesting subjects and since the state will provide him with a comfortable disability pension for the rest of his life he's essentially free to do whatever he wants with his time. Like he says, not the worst deal.
Also, it could be worse.
He could be a severe case autist like my sister who has the mind of a 3-year old even though she's 24 and will have to live in a controlled institution environment for the rest of her life.
So yeah, Aspergers probably sucks bigtime, but it could be worse. A lot worse

 

[Dmatix]

My mother teaches autistic children( although not with Asperger, but more serious cases that are combined with very low IQ as well). from her meeting with people with Asperger syndrome I could tell she was very impressed by them,but also sorry for them. she said it was because no matter how disconnected the children she was teaching were from the outside world ( 12 that can barley speak, not to mention express themselves coherently, at least they are able to enjoy simple things like touch, something that I know many people with Asperger have problems with. its a very interesting condition.

 

[nikomas1]

Well, I won't argue anymore, just don't tell me that I am less than someone without Aspergers, because I certainly ain't.

Edit:

Sorry, I wasn't fast enough:

Found him. He's not a historian, much less someone making claims about these people having asperger's/autism. He wrote "The Book of Useless Information". Basically, these sites took actual historical records of people, found anecdotes about them that conform to existing symptoms of asperger's/autism, and called it proof. I call bulls***. I'd wager any one of us have some anecdotes which "prove" we have asperger's or autism, but it's not about isolated incidents. Isaac Newton dropped out of school, and it turns out that people with asperger's may have problems with rules and authority. That's seriously how they draw the conclusion that Newton had Asperger's. So, I guess everyone who drops out has Asperger's. This is more prevalent that I thought.

Or it's bullocks. Franklin might have put a joke in the declaration of independence. And those with asperger's have strange senses of humor. Where's the connection there, much less the definitive proof. This is one continued example of shoddy research methods.

NOTE: Also included are famous people for whom there is a lot of speculation that they have or had Aspergers Syndrome, but who may not have (or have had) Aspergers at all.

Yeah, the guy who wrote that knows it to. It's speculation, but to me, the reasons he write sound perfecly viable, my entire work group in high school consists of "aspie's", 20 people spread across 4 grades, so I am in a position to talk, you on the other hand, seem to base of what you have read, I base of several years of experience.

 

[Undeadpope]

I know someone with a full blown case,he slighty out of social sync but he is a nice guy,I am not sure if I was told I had a minor form of it(the only effect is I find it hard to concentrate),I didnt self diagnose myself with that,as far as I know it hasnt effected me majorly.

 

[Florion]

Full stop. "Treat them and their weaknesses the way you would treat any other person with any weakness. You work around it". That's a fine attitude for you to have, and as a personal choice, that's fine. But it's a rather silly normative judgement to believe that *everyone* should make that same choice. If I don't want to spend time with people who don't "get it", aside from a phony morality that we should have a smile and flower for all the perfect little snowflakes, there's no reason for me to change.

News flash, not everyone is equal. Not everyone is special, or has a gift that makes up for their flaws. If someone is brilliant enough to make up for deficiencies in other areas, I might accept them, and society might accept them, but save for something exceptional to overcome their natural flaws, there's no reason not to shun them. People use asperger's as an excuse for being more flawed with less culpability than other people, and that's crap.

(just being picky here: I'm not sure what grammar you were trying to correct, and also, the period at the end of the quotation should go inside the quote marks.)

I don't care if you don't want to change some personal belief in shunning people (in general) who don't have a shining gift; it just bothers me that you appear to think people with autism deserve to be shunned until they can prove they have something meaningful. Don't most people operate based on "Treat people with respect until they reveal some character flaw you can't respect?" Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "being more flawed with less culpability than other people."

 

[Tonimata]

I was diagnosed with AS a long, long time ago, and have always been aware of it. However, since it is a very mild form of AS, I have had the chance to correct most of its aspects, whilst retaining some of the ones that are most common in AS sufferers. I am EXTREMELY sociophobic at times, to the extent of completey avoiding any sort of social contact with any sort of person, be it friends, family, or complete strangers for extended periods of time (never forgetting the basic rules of courtesy). I also tend to get compulsively obsessive about things, although that's something that really only happens to me with girls I like anymore. I also have a slight tendency to be horribly smug and to usually have the answer to everything. I argue constantly about the most petty and mundane things, and I tend to criticise others way too much. I don't like making small talk, and my peers have long since realised and ceased to try (thankfully). But, on the bright side of things, I have a very bright mind. I think many AS have very bright minds and INCREDIBLE imaginations, but indeed, they're undermined by the fact that they've got mental disorders. My best friend is along my lines of AS and you wouldn't believe the amount of things he can invent per second.
I recently decided to take on learning how to play electric guitar, precisely a week ago, and are finding it incredibly easy to learn, grasp, and utilize many of the concepts.

I think that AS are more of a different kind of person really. Many will try to reset you, and try to adapt you to our society. But what I say is, don't let them. Be you, and stay true. It's worked for me, because even though I only have about 3 people I consider friends, and have never had a girlfriend. My life is pretty boring and miserable from the point of view of any other person, but I'm happy with it, and it has lead me to being the kind of person I like to be, because I know that I am different. That is mostly what people are afraid of, people being different to them. They immediately try to alienate them. But frankly, fuck them, I am rather happy with myself.

And I hope so are you

 

[Twilight_guy]

I have AS. My parents got me tested as a child. I've known about it since I was in elementary school. The fact that 52 people voted the same way baffles me.

 

[tthor]

I went to boarding school with a guy that had Aspergers. Nice guy, a bit odd though. We laughed a bit at him at times and he laughed right along with us, cause we were all weird at one point or another, he was just a bit more weird at times. He's not exactly having a normal life now though, not capable of holding a regular job, but studies all sorts of interesting subjects and since the state will provide him with a comfortable disability pension for the rest of his life he's essentially free to do whatever he wants with his time. Like he says, not the worst deal.
Also, it could be worse.
He could be a severe case autist like my sister who has the mind of a 3-year old even though she's 24 and will have to live in a controlled institution environment for the rest of her life.
So yeah, Aspergers probably sucks bigtime, but it could be worse. A lot worse

disability pension? for aspergers, or do u mean something else??

and ya, i know it must suck for your sister..
but, not to be offensive or anything, i think in some ways aspergers can be a bit worse than severe autism,
because even tho your sister has it really bad, i doubt she truly comprehends how bad she has it, do to her condition..
while ppl with aspergers may not have it as bad, they more than comprehend how bad they have it, and how much they often just wish they could be normal

 

[nikomas1]

I know someone with a full blown case,he slighty out of social sync but he is a nice guy,I am not sure if I was told I had a minor form of it(the only effect is I find it hard to concentrate),I didnt self diagnose myself with that,as far as I know it hasnt effected me majorly.

Most with Aspergers can live a completely normal life without to many difficulties. But others, like that guy who likes busses from my class, never talks unless he have to, even then, it's only yes, no or maybe kind of answers.

 

[sooperg]

i to have aspergers. fortunately through plenty of intervention i have 3x the attention span of the average Aspergers person. i also have the mind of a high school graduate and im 14 yrs old.

 

[EeveeElectro]

I know a few people with it, but they don't seem to want to admit it.

 

[nikomas1]

Please, please don't compare a psychological disorder to a physical trait, you can't compare those.

Because one is something you can overcome with effort and perseverance, and one is something you're stuck with your whole life? I'm pretty sure I can't will myself taller. I'm not sure what your objection to the analogy is, but you're now evading the point I made (which did not require the analogy in order to be poignant)

(Just noticed this one)And I can't will or force this disorder of me either, no matter how bad I try, I can learn to suppress with my problems, but never rid myself completely of them. Just as how a short guy can learn to live that way, but now magically grow taller.

 

[nikomas1]

I know a few people with it, but they don't seem to want to admit it.

You sure it's Aspergers they have then?