Poll: Autism. Bad or Good?

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conzan

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Apr 16, 2010
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"he wasn't born with it he was given a vaccine when he was 2 years old to help"
no he wasn't he was autistic before that you just didn't know it because of his age and its not a bad thing both my sister have it and there happy and that's what's important right
 

Ironic Pirate

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May 21, 2009
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TheUnchosenOne said:
Tekkawarrior said:
I'm in awe at "Okay, first, I registered solely so I could tell you how completely and utterly wrong you are."

Welcome to The Escapist, sounds like you might fit in pretty well by the sounds of it.
He's possessed of an idea that is actively dangerous. It's not that I disagree with him (I've been lurking for a while, and have seen lots of posts I disagreed with). It's that he's part of a group of people putting children at risk because of their ignorance.
I have to say, that's a decent reason to join. I did just to make a zombie joke, which it turns out someone else had already done.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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it would be a little interesting if Autism was actually the next evolution of humanity.
 

Maclennan

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Jul 11, 2010
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Don't worry mercury can never expire, its an element. Also what country does he live in that would use expired vaccine?
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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Vaccines don't cause autism - millions have been vaccinated. Hundreds of millions in fact. In fact, during the mid-20th century, virtually EVERYONE ON EARTH was vaccinated. That's why there's no such thing as Smallpox, in case you haven't noticed.

Are there hundreds of millions of Autistic people?! NO!

Autism is noticed at roughly the same age as when kids receive vaccines. It's a coincidence, nothing more. I've been vaccinated, and I'm not autistic! I've had dozens of vaccinations, from when I was a baby, to present day.

All this "vaccination causes autism" comes from one very bad study performed by a crap doctor, whose papers have been pulled.

Parents want someone to blame for their child's autism. Rather than accept that it was just bad luck due to abnormal brain development, they blame vaccines because they don't understand them. They say "there's mercury in the vaccine! Mercury's BAD!", without learning that

1) Ethyl Mercury is safe - it's a DIFFERENT CHEMICAL COMPOUND than regular Mercury, and has a different chemistry! Yes folks, whodathunkit, but different chemicals behave differently, even when they have the same name! Ethyl Mercury SOUNDS similar to Methyl Mecury, but ya know, that "m" sound actually means its a different chemical compound, and has different effects! Did any of you actually take chemistry in High School? I didn't think so.

2) The amount of Ethyl Mercury (NOT METHYL MERCURY), which does not bioaccumulate in the body (SO IT'S DIFFERENT FROM PLAIN OL MERCURY), in vaccines is VERY SMALL.

But what do you expect? Ignorant people are so easy to scare. They go on a crusade against science, without bothering to properly educate themselves about science. And no, reading a few websites does not count as "education". I have a master's degree, so I actually know my science. Granted, I'm a molecular biologist, not an immunologist, but I took a few courses in pathology and chemistry, so I'm more qualified to comment on this matter than a bunch of easily scared people who believe what the internet tells them.

I'm sorry if you parents have told you that vaccines cause autism. You're parents are WRONG. Look all around you - the vast majority of the Western World's population has been vaccinated. Are well all autistic? NO!
 
Aug 17, 2009
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It's over-diagnosed like a ************, I'll tell you that much. I have a very healthy social life, but apparently I have this same Aspergers condition.
 

Knusper

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Sep 10, 2010
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My oldest other has autism and always got what he wanted when he was small because he was so demanding of what he wanted. This has made him really horrible and hate-filled, fortunately, I can beat him in a fight now, but when I was `0 he would break my warhammer models and things and even tried picking me up and throwing me off the banisters (he tried it I was 14 and I tackled him to the floor). He doesn't hrt me now, but is still really verbally abusive to everyone. I honestly thin he'd be a better person if he did not have aspergers, so I guess the case varies between the individuals.

Also, he was expelled from secondary school and managed to get 5 poor GCSEs when he went to a special needs school and now has a couple of poor A-levels but has no prospects of getting into university and has never got a job better than in a call-centre or behind a till when his fends are nearly graduating, albeit with debts, and have decent jobs that they enjoy. Therefore, I think it would be better for him, too.
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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But about the topic at hand - Is Autism bad or good? Well, it depends. I knew someone with Asperger's syndrome. He was my friend, he was smart and he was a nice guy. I got along with him just fine.

But he wasn't a "super genius". He was certainly smart, but the smartest person in my grade did not have autism - she just studied very hard. Being Autistic does not automatically imbue one with "superior mental powers" - in fact in the vast majority of autism sufferers, their intelligence is harmed by their condition. There are a few savants out there, but they are rare.

If Autism is mild, it simple doesn't have that much of an effect. It's not good or bad, it's simply a difference. If Autism is serious, it is almost certainly bad as it creates dependencies, and harms social relations.

Look, I understand that those who suffer from Autism (or simply have Autism, but don't suffer from it), are tired of being stigmatized. So they invent a fantasy - that having Autism makes them "Superior" to us "Normies". That's not a healthy attitude, and it doesn't really make anything better. But neither does marinating oneself in self-pity.

You can have self-esteem without resorting to bizarre fantasies designed to give oneself an overinflated, undeserved sense of superiority. Autistic people are people too - they have their virtues and their faults. On the whole, Autism is not a good thing, but it can be mild enough so that it does not interfere dramatically with one's life.

There's a tendency amongst some people with Aspergers to view themselves as the "NEXT STAGE IN HUMAN EVOLUTION", which is downright funny. Might as well start calling them "Hoppy Harrington", eh?
 

Physics Engine

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Aug 18, 2010
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My nephew has Autism and he can't do anything but bite and punch himself, other people and walls. He sets fire to anything he can, even himself and giggles as the fire burns him. He cried and hit me when I put it out once and now won't even make eye contact with me. He can only grunt and laugh with a little sign language (seriously all he says is "thank you" in sign, for everything) and scream, oh boy can he scream.

He's 16, getting bigger and nobody's sure how to help him as he's a big boy and can and has K.O'd his father more than once. Respite workers will not help any more, he's too strong for them. My uncle has had to quit his job and try for government funding just to survive. Even his mother has left them, she blames him for their son's Autism and left in the night, then tried to sell their house out from under them.

Autism is too broad a spectrum to say if it's good or bad, but I'm pretty sure that this case isn't too hard to classify.
 

Korolev

No Time Like the Present
Jul 4, 2008
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And does autism boost learning? Much of learning involves communication. Science is a communal effort - even Newton learned from others. Einstein collaborated with leading mathematicians and the discoverers of DNA, Watson and Crick, co-operated together.

If Autism severely damages one's ability to communicate, how can they ever properly develop their mental abilities? Science does have its geniuses and lone inventors, but even they had to work together with other contemporaries to flesh out ideas or publish them or improve them. The Manhattan project was not the work of one man, after all. And indeed, science has become so damn complex these days, you NEED to work with others.

Take some of the work I used to do - I had to do a bioinformatics analysis on a gene to find areas that were conserved in order to locate potential splice-sites. Then I had to test whether or not the protein would bind and initiate splicing of its own pre-mRNA. There was a lot more to it than that, but that took months and months and months. And that was only one part of ONE gene, in one species (rat in this instance, but it was in Zebrafish and mice and humans as well). Much of my lab's work in understanding that gene came from other people, and we pooled our knowledge and findings together. Simply put, modern biology is FAR TOO COMPLEX for any ONE person to make significant discoveries. To make a discovery, you must work as a team. If you have mild Asperger's, that's not a problem. As I've said, when I was still in high-school, I was able to work with a kid with Aspergers on a physics project. We did fine. But if you have moderate-to-severe case of Autism, you'll have a lot of difficulty in being a modern-day scientist - you might never be able to work in science. It would definitely hinder you, that's for sure.

Science DEPENDS on communication, co-operation. It's a communal effort. And can I say, the vast majority of scientists I've encountered do not have autism, although one or two did. Autism doesn't mean you're stupid - but it certainly doesn't mean you're some kind of super-genius we "normies" must bow down to. And don't pretend some of you don't think that way - I've talked to more than a few autistic people to know that quite a few of you do. It's a psychological defence mechanism, I understand, but it's still silly.

And what exactly IS Asperger's? While it exists for sure, I think it is over-diagnosed. I myself was an awkward child in high-school, unable to make many friends - and I did have "difficulty" understanding the behaviour of some of my peers. I also found it difficult to talk to people or gauge their emotions at times. Did I have Asperger's? No, I was just socially awkward. And I grew out of it.

Of course, you can't "grow out of" real Asperger's, which I am at pains to make clear, really does exist. But far too many people "self-diagnose" themselves with it. If a doctor diagnoses you with Asperger's syndrome, you probably do have it. But if you decided that you have it because you read a couple of symptoms on the web and can't ask a girl out, then you probably don't.
 

Dusk17

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Jul 30, 2010
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CTU_Loscombe said:
SantoUno said:
DELTA x WOLF said:
I'm going to start off saying this "My little brother has autism", he wasn't born with it he was given a vaccine when he was 2 years old to help him from receiving the flu, but all of the vaccines in that year had expired and had mercury inside of all of the expired bottles and effected hundreds of kids within those years.

My younger brother learned how to speak speak 3 language(Spanish,French,German)by watching is favorite movies in different languages ,is doing 9Th grade math, reading 12Th grade books and hes only 10 years old, but he has no social skills. The only people he "enjoys" hanging out with is family, but he also enjoys playing on Xbox LIVE with his online friends. We found out when he was 4 that he has Aspergers syndrome

Asperger syndrome is an autism spectrum disorder. Children with the condition want to know everything about their topic of interest, and their conversations with others will be about little else. Other characteristics include problems with nonverbal communication, clumsy and uncoordinated motor movements, and the inability to interact successfully with peers. Treatment involves social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, medication for coexisting conditions, and other measures.

So my question is. Is Autism good because of the learning boost or bad because they don't have any social time because they cant deal with others?
How the fuck does autism give you a learning boost?? My nephew has autism so he still cannot speak fluently and he's almost 4.
Its not so much a learning boost but more like skills boost. Imagine it like creating an RPG character:

Regular guy:
Intelligence- 5
Speed - 6
Artistic Skill- 4
Math - 6
Speech -5

Autistic guy:
Intelligence- 5 (theres no diminished intelligence as far as I can gather)
Speed - 6
Artistic Skill- 9
Math - 8
Speech - 3

Autistic people tend to be better at things like memory games and the arts but lack in other areas. So, kinda see Autism like a badly specced RPG character :)
Your nephew will have some amazing talent that will show itself I swear...Give him time, he's only 4 for Christs sake :)
You are an idiot. Life is not an RPG and people are not "specced."
 

TheLiham

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Apr 15, 2010
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Pirate Kitty said:
dastardly said:
That attitude is disgusting. So many people refuse to seek help and hide their depression or other mental health issues because people like you make them feel like they are lying to themselves, or are making it seem worse than it is and they are simply weak.

THANK YOU!

nice to see someone stand up to apathetic pricks like him
 

sirkai007

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Apr 20, 2009
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Grigori361 said:
sirkai007 said:
DELTA x WOLF said:
I'm going to start off saying this "My little brother has autism", he wasn't born with it he was given a vaccine when he was 2 years old to help him from receiving the flu, but all of the vaccines in that year had expired and had mercury inside of all of the expired bottles and effected hundreds of kids within those years.
The doctor who first stated that vaccinations caused autism was banned from practicing medicine in the UK earlier this year because he fabricated the results of his study. Later he was banned by the AMA as well. You can read about it if you care to.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/managing-your-healthcare/brain-and-behavior/articles/2010/05/24/health-buzz-autism-vaccine-doctor-stripped-of-medical-license.html

OKay hold on, you said he fabricated his research, but all I see is him being banned because of immoral practices, simply put. You can't ban research because of immorality, all those nazi experiments that jumped our medicine ahead 30-50 years would have been banned to.
The medical journal that published his "findings" retracted them shortly after he was indicted. If his studies on autism weren't fabricated the there would be no reason to retract them now would there?
 

Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
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Pirate Kitty said:
dastardly said:
That attitude is disgusting. So many people refuse to seek help and hide their depression or other mental health issues because people like you make them feel like they are lying to themselves, or are making it seem worse than it is and they are simply weak.
Pointing out the truth. What's "disgusting" is the fact that there are so many people out there making it the truth. They're the ones that make things harder for the few who could actually really use the help, because they have an actual problem.

You being... well... so typically you... does nothing to disprove a single claim I've made. It's just a bland, unoriginal appeal to emotion with absolutely no substance. I'm sorry you hate honesty so much. Maybe I have Asperger's or something, hmm?

(And there are plenty of people who do have a problem, but are also making it seem worse (to themselves) and seeking the wrong kind of help. Covering the problem with a pill isn't the same as getting help or fixing the problem, just like getting a crutch doesn't heal the broken leg, it just compensates for it temporarily. But this thread isn't about them. This is about the fakers.)
 

DSK-

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May 13, 2010
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Pirate Kitty said:
DSK- said:
No. It doesn't. At all. Period.

Ask ANY reputable doctor.

This is EXTREMELY important that people do not forgo vaccination.
Then perhaps you could perchance think of another way that it came to be?
 

Liquid155

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Aug 8, 2008
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DSK- said:
You may say that, but my brother changed dramaticall when he had his MMR injection. Before he had it he would babble away and was able to say "Kelly good girl" (we would say that to our dog when she was around him as a baby) "dada" "mmmm" and "ssss" for my parents and myself and generally acted like a 'typical' baby.

After he had his MMR jab all of this stopped. He was hyperactive. He actually learned to walk before he crawled, and later would spend most of his time running around in circles in the living room, fall down asleep and within 2 hours be up and he would do it all over again.
I'm a linguistics major in college and one of the areas I've studied is language impairment in a range of conditions including autism.

Normal language development continuing to a certain point and then abruptly stopping is very common in Autism. When language is affected in Autism, this is usually how it happens. The age when it stops just happens to correspond with the age most children get vaccinated.

It's unusual, and still not completely understood, but despite the correlation there really is nothing to link vaccines to Autism.
 

DSK-

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May 13, 2010
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Liquid155 said:
DSK- said:
You may say that, but my brother changed dramaticall when he had his MMR injection. Before he had it he would babble away and was able to say "Kelly good girl" (we would say that to our dog when she was around him as a baby) "dada" "mmmm" and "ssss" for my parents and myself and generally acted like a 'typical' baby.

After he had his MMR jab all of this stopped. He was hyperactive. He actually learned to walk before he crawled, and later would spend most of his time running around in circles in the living room, fall down asleep and within 2 hours be up and he would do it all over again.
I'm a linguistics major in college and one of the areas I've studied is language impairment in a range of conditions including autism.

Normal language development continuing to a certain point and then abruptly stopping is very common in Autism. When language is affected in Autism, this is usually how it happens. The age when it stops just happens to correspond with the age most children get vaccinated.

It's unusual, and still not completely understood, but despite the correlation there really is nothing to link vaccines to Autism.
Thank you very much for the depth of your post and the information. I will take it to heart and I appreciate it, but I suppose it will probably take me a while to acquainted with the idea, especially when you believe something (even if it is wrong) for such a long time.

Thanks again :D