As long as you didn't know, you would pick the illusion. As soon as it becomes obvious, you probably can't go back...
Poll: Autonomy and Philosophy
- Thread starter JC175
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Autonomy is the concept that we exercise choice to differing degrees by... making choices. The choice to reflect one's own DNA, for instance, is free will, it is an autonomous action, action of the self upon the self.
So is the choice to learn. To empathize, to please another. To comply. These are all choices. These are all self manipulations. These are all actions of the self upon the self.
But whatever use there might be for the concept of autonomy, the problem is that choice, itself, is illusion.
There is no behavioral model free of the homunculus, and the physical world limits the number of step one can push it back. And anyways, the problem the homunculus is famous for is that, however far you push it back, it's always still there.
Concious experience may be inexplicable, and in that sense, valid. But choice, and autonomy, are only the artifacts of your limited self-perception.
Ultimately, its really a choice between:
An illusion that offers no autonomy and doesn't make you happy
An illusion that offers no autonomy and makes you happy
So is the choice to learn. To empathize, to please another. To comply. These are all choices. These are all self manipulations. These are all actions of the self upon the self.
But whatever use there might be for the concept of autonomy, the problem is that choice, itself, is illusion.
There is no behavioral model free of the homunculus, and the physical world limits the number of step one can push it back. And anyways, the problem the homunculus is famous for is that, however far you push it back, it's always still there.
Concious experience may be inexplicable, and in that sense, valid. But choice, and autonomy, are only the artifacts of your limited self-perception.
Ultimately, its really a choice between:
An illusion that offers no autonomy and doesn't make you happy
An illusion that offers no autonomy and makes you happy
Ok, but wouldn't having only happiness limit the amount we experiance? How could we fully realize how small we are without seeing the stars above us? How could we appreciate the vast capability of our minds without stumbling across the pain and destruction it could cause? How good is life if we are not but prisoners in a cave, seeing only the shadows the the walls? (bit of Socrates for you there)Cheeze_Pavilion said:
And I do. So perhaps autonomy vs. perfection is based on simply the persons view. Perhaps we all just have different requirments for happiness (I would need something to compare it to, you would need only different levels of happiness). However, it's hard to say for certain if anyone could live in a perfect world or with pure happiness, because no one has lived in such a world.Cheeze_Pavilion said:
To JC175, thanks for the good question! Keep them coming! Also, idea for a different Philosophy thread:
What is a "Perfect World," and is one possible (allowing for things like the Matrix-like technology.)
What would be nice if people could make that choice, and then set some sort of a reset button so they could live the other life, and make a decision based off of that. But, alas, such is not the case.
Having everyone live the perfect life given to you would be nice at first, and perhaps it could be so realistic that even if people notice the difference, they don't care that it is artificial. But on the downside of that, if everything is perfect, then there is no room for conflict, and human nature thrives on violence, be it of a physical or emotional nature.
But out of conflict comes inspiration that moves the soul. Give me suffering for art any day.
Having everyone live the perfect life given to you would be nice at first, and perhaps it could be so realistic that even if people notice the difference, they don't care that it is artificial. But on the downside of that, if everything is perfect, then there is no room for conflict, and human nature thrives on violence, be it of a physical or emotional nature.
But out of conflict comes inspiration that moves the soul. Give me suffering for art any day.
Happiness definitely. Because none of us is truly autonomous. Can you do anything you want to do and ignore all cultural and environmental pressures?
UHHH!!! ME WANT!!!! Start it up and send me a link!!!JC175 said:Thankye. If you like, I have a few more, mostly revolving serious situations where your actions result in a certain amount of dead kittens/babies/elderly/handicapped.Ramthundar said:
