Poll: BBC News Article: Sexual harrasment in video games

[Furioso]

Is enough being done? Yes, most games have a mute function, use it. Other than that, I find it worrying how so many people have never heard of trash talking, its all anonymous so you can say whatever you want, who cares.

captcha: what. ever <-anyone else notice how freakishly on topic captchas have been recently

 

[Erana]

Hold on a second, all the people telling said verbally berated women to use the mute function and deal with it...

Why on Earth do you think this discriminatory, out of control trash-talking is okay?

Not just towards women, but to anybody. The stuff these people are spouting is often the sort of language that can be used to get legal restraining orders. Yeah, there's always going to be that one guy who manages a funny sandwich joke, but this isn't just all people looking for lulz. This isn't all people who would use "buttmuch ******" as an endearing nickname for their beloved older brother who gave them a kidney.

There are waaaaay too many people on the internet who badmouth minorities, the opposite sex or other groups and genuinely praise lynching, arson and other violent crimes against them. Condoning the mass of excessive 'joking' verbal abuse directed at people who clearly do not enjoy it, or worse, mistaking genuine harassment for Freedom of Speech just disturbs me.

The fact that we're talking about online gaming, which is both a super-easy target for the media and has even fewer excuses than the internet as a whole because of the more controlled environment (as compared to the internet in general) is just bad for the entirety of video games. More customers mean more money in the industry and more varied demographics, which means more possibilities for better and more innovative games. Trying to keep it some rowdy boy's club doesn't exactly promote new gamers. And come on. Video gaming as a whole is barely half a century old. Trying to argue that there are "sacred traditions" or something like that is just silly.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

I find the "It's just the way it is" argument short sighted and defeatist. Why bother trying to change anything? Similarly, people who say just mute and move on are ignoring how with a few adjustments you can vastly improve the atmosphere in a community.

On XBL for example, you have to mute a player manually. Extra Credits suggest that if a player receives too many complaints, they are automuted. With that one simple change, you take away much of the abusers power. Personally I would have them banned, but MS won't do that for financial reasons. It's one of the reasons I prefer playing on well admin'd PC servers.

Perhaps we should stop giving idiots the ability to broadcast every inane thought that enters their head. You can say that men give each other shit all the time, but would you really walk up to a complete stranger and tell them that you would rape them and that you hoped that their family died? How can you defend a system that does nothing to discourage this kind of behaviour?

Yes, we should not just accept it as part of the culture. Everything that that can be done to stop harassment should be done. Otherwise we will be forever stuck with legions of these idiots driving many others away from the community.

On a side note, did the BBC just mention Extra Credits in an article? I approve

 

[skywolfblue]

Men give each other shit in a similar fashion all the time, you just can't take it to heart.

People shouldn't be giving each other that kind of shit period. It doesn't matter if they're male, female, black or white, unacceptable behavior should not be tolerated.

I find the "It's just the way it is" argument short sighted and defeatist. Why bother trying to change anything? Similarly, people who say just mute and move on are ignoring how with a few adjustments you can vastly improve the atmosphere in a community.

I completely agree.

The internet has one seriously fucked up community. But instead of bending over and accepting it, we should be trying to improve it, to get people to behave like decent human beings.

 

[Eamar]

See, I heard a BBC radio program about this a few nights ago and had a bit of a revelation. Hearing the sort of thing that's usually discussed on gaming sites being examined in a more general, "official" manner really highlighted how unacceptable this stuff is. And how backward all those of you claiming it isn't a big deal sound to the outside world. They interviewed people who expressed pretty much all of the negative views in this thread ("men get abuse too", "grow a thicker skin", "use the mute button" etc, etc). Outside the context of an internet forum, that shit just does not fly. You sound like children. I'm sorry, but it's true.

Seriously, I was embarrassed to be associated with the gaming community during that program. I wondered why the hell I put up with this crap to the extent I do (and I don't exactly roll over and take it) or why I subject myself to forums like these where far too many people come across as completely ignorant. People need to get out of their little bubbles and realise how moronic they look to the outside world.

 

[AngloDoom]

At one point in time I was under the guise of a more ambiguous username than usual (Blue_Kitteh or something) when playing an online game. I had played the game before hand under a different name, but I'd not once had a friend request or any direct insults throw at me. However, the moment people thought I was a woman I was not left alone.

I got friend-requests all the time with loads of "haha, it'd be totally hilarious if you sent us a picture of your boobs! jk jk!" messages when I was on that person's team, and when I was not I often got "get back in the kitchen" or "you're probably a fat slut with no boyfriend" messages.

Women have it fucking awful on internet games. Despite how some individuals seem to think that women are just being extra sensitive to the insults, I felt I had to change my username to a more neutral (and therefore automatically male) name just so I could get on with the game quietly.

 

[Zakarath]

I'd say at least some of the "get in the kitchen" jokes are tongue-in-cheek mocking of the stereotype rather than being meant in earnest. But yeah, some ppl never seemed to learn how to interact with women. (hint: it's pretty close to the way you should treat everyone else)

 

[ElPatron]

just start to flex my admin muscles, turning on noclip and changing my character's color and whatnot.

And then people wonder why so many kids have a "fuck the police!" attitude towards moderators and admins...

Annoying Kid: *Rages*
Me: Muted/Ignored sir.

How is this a problem again?

Basically this. Women are called "sluts", "fat bitches" etc and I am called "******", "nerd", etc. There is not that much difference, it's someone's choice to actually listen to what people are saying.

Similarly, people who say just mute and move on are ignoring how with a few adjustments you can vastly improve the atmosphere in a community.

(...)

Perhaps we should stop giving idiots the ability to broadcast every inane thought that enters their head.

I would like to know about those "few adjustments".

My guess is that they wouldn't change things a lot, or that they would have a snowball effect even thought they seemed "minor fixes".

Also, they must not infringe Freedom of Speech. The ability to broadcast stupid shit is the same thing that allows me to not go to jail for broadcasting what I think.

It might not be a big deal for you, but my country suffered at the hands of censorship until the 70's. Our people fought for that piece of paper that says we have Freedom of Speech.

But yeah, some ppl never seemed to learn how to interact with women. (hint: it's pretty close to the way you should treat everyone else)

If men are treated like trash online, doesn't mean that women should be treated like them?

 

[Lilani]

just start to flex my admin muscles, turning on noclip and changing my character's color and whatnot.

And then people wonder why so many kids have a "fuck the police!" attitude towards moderators and admins...

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that kids who come out the gate disrespecting people never care about what admins think in the first place. They never have any fucks to give as far as what the rules are, they just want to harass people.

 

[iLikeHippos]

How does one control a crowd of people? And in this reference, gamers. Rowdy gamers.
First thing that comes to mind are 'law enforcements'. Create laws to dole out punishment towards the guilty and direct a controlled environment to the desired path.
Problem is, laws restricts freedom. The big boys of the industry leading the majority of servers, platforms and administrations may have difficulty in convincing themselves this to be the proper course of action, as it may forfeit sale numbers to ones competitors who are not actioned by these rules. That is to say, if the big boys in question were to enforce these laws; if not, a government will with their police enforcement. This may cost money for maintaining the law. This, as well to the big boys, if they were to enforce their own laws heavily as well.

To me, it seems like a financial and administrative issue, and its solution may be seen as 'hindering' in the way of business. Far more cost-effective to add unhelpful reputation systems with no consequences, and base-to-base mute functions that should not have to be used in the first place, in order to sate the masses with this growing issue.

That is merely my own formula, however. It may be entirely inaccurate for all I know. Just philosophizing in the dark. Kind of tired.

 

[Eamar]

Also, they must not infringe Freedom of Speech. The ability to broadcast stupid shit is the same thing that allows me to not go to jail for broadcasting what I think.

It might not be a big deal for you, but my country suffered at the hands of censorship until the 70's. Our people fought for that piece of paper that says we have Freedom of Speech.

All true, but freedom of speech =/= freedom to sexually harass people.

Sexual harassment is illegal and is defined in the UK as "unwanted conduct on the ground of a person's sex or unwanted conduct of a sexual nature and that conduct has the purpose or effect of violating a person's dignity, or of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them"

...which pretty much sums up a lot (most?) of women's online gaming experiences. It's not just a case of "trash talk" (though I would argue that that's far from acceptable, for both genders), but also the PMs and friend requests instructing you to show your boobs, the constant and immediate sexualisation and degradation that goes on as soon as a female voice is heard on voicechat...

Yes, men have it bad too, but anyone who refuses to see how the situation is different for women is wilfully ignoring the problem.

 

[ElPatron]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that kids who come out the gate disrespecting people never care about what admins think in the first place. They never have any fucks to give as far as what the rules are, they just want to harass people.

By "kids" I meant "me when I was 14".

If there was one thing I tired to respected online, it was rules. And it pissed me off when someone who I expect to be above the rule-breakers and exhibit professionalism started doing things like those.

Yes, men have it bad too, but anyone who refuses to see how the situation is different for women is wilfully ignoring the problem.

Have you considered not revealing your gender?

Sexual harassment is indeed illegal. But wasting taxpayer's money to put the police listening to chats on the internet to find that the harasser is in Malaysia wouldn't be the solution.

 

[Lilani]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that kids who come out the gate disrespecting people never care about what admins think in the first place. They never have any fucks to give as far as what the rules are, they just want to harass people.

By "kids" I meant "me when I was 14".

If there was one thing I tired to respected online, it was rules. And it pissed me off when someone who I expect to be above the rule-breakers and exhibit professionalism started doing things like those.

When I "flex my admin muscles," I do not do anything I wouldn't be allowed to do on the server to have a good time. I might turn on noclip and get myself to the skybox, where my model appears gigantic in the background. I might spawn a special monster for people to fight. I might make a noise that everybody hears. These are all things that are perfectly within my rights as admin, and even encouraged by the person who owns the server, just to shake things up a bit and make the server stand out.

The reason I do those things at that particular moment is to make it known I'm an admin without actually saying the words "You better watch yourself, 'cause I'm an admin." Any title you announce yourself does not lend itself to any credibility. By making it known that way, I'm giving them one more chance to stand down before I get all supr srs and mention things like muting and banning.

 

[Eamar]

Have you considered not revealing your gender?

Why? Why the hell should I, the innocent party, have to go out of my way to keep my gender hidden? Why should I have to worry about choosing a name and avatar? Why should I be excluded from voicechat?

For what it's worth, yes I do sometimes hide my gender. I shouldn't have to, and that sort of attitude makes my blood boil.

My point is not that we should be forcing the police to monitor online chat (though I love that you consider sexual harassment law "a waste of taxpayer's money"), but that people shouldn't be letting others get away with it. That doesn't have to mean pursuing legal action, but it should mean that the idiots who constantly harass women online are made to feel uncomfortable. They should be treated with the disgust they deserve. As a community we absolutely should not stand for this.

 

[Brad Calkins]

I've only ever seen it once, in Runescape, but I think he got banned. Frankly I've never taken the news seriously. Generally they only give one of 2 possible stories, stories that are true, but embellished to the point of absurdity or facts that are flat-out fabricated. All said the news is just a circus of fear-mongering, clever wording and misplaced priorities.

 

[TJC]

Basically this. Women are called "sluts", "fat bitches" etc and I am called "******", "nerd", etc. There is not that much difference, it's someone's choice to actually listen to what people are saying.

Similarly, people who say just mute and move on are ignoring how with a few adjustments you can vastly improve the atmosphere in a community.

(...)

Perhaps we should stop giving idiots the ability to broadcast every inane thought that enters their head.

I would like to know about those "few adjustments".

My guess is that they wouldn't change things a lot, or that they would have a snowball effect even thought they seemed "minor fixes".

Also, they must not infringe Freedom of Speech. The ability to broadcast stupid shit is the same thing that allows me to not go to jail for broadcasting what I think.

It might not be a big deal for you, but my country suffered at the hands of censorship until the 70's. Our people fought for that piece of paper that says we have Freedom of Speech.


If men are treated like trash online, doesn't mean that women should be treated like them?

Few adjustment ideas: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/harassment
yeah, it's not even hard. People can grade you a poor player and thus, you are gagged until you learn to behave like a normal human being. You want trash talkers? Don't grade them poorly and enjoy their verbal abuse the whole day long.

Still, the whole freedom of speech "argument" you bring made me facepalm hard. You obviously don't understand this right. This freedom is only granted as long as you don't abuse it to infringe upon someone else's human rights.

but honestly, you enjoy being called a "cock-gargling **** sucker" and being told that someone hopes "you and your family to be raped and then die horribly because of the resulting aids and cancer" ?
Really?

I don't get it how people can be that defeatist and/or defensive when someone tries to better this community

 

[Cheesepower5]

Until you can physically reach through the screen and slap other player's buttocks through their cloud-gaming-chair I won't accuse the games industry of aiding sexual harassment, in which case I hardly see how they should change their hardware and software to preserve some people's feelings. It's not like harassment of any kind will stop outside the gaming chair, so if you want to play online I guess... deal with it?

I'd be sympathetic and tell sexist gamers to fuck off, but I hardly see how that'll stop them.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

It's not a problem of videogames, it's a problem that stems from the internet and anonymity in general.

Any anonymity, even the perception thereof, leads to people acting like animals. It's everywhere, these forums, 4chan, online multiplayer, news site comment sections, YouTube. Anywhere people think they can get away with being that horrible, they will, because underneath all the social niceties people are disgusting.

And of course, the most telling thing is that whenever someone suggests a geuine way to get rid of it (ie. when you sign up for an online service you display your real name/location) everyone, even the people who manage to rein themselves in, fight against it and claim it's a violation of their civil rights (which sounds a bit stupid when, say, an American is arguing against a British person where the rights are different, but hey, I don't make the rules.)

You can't have it both ways. Either the internet is anonymous and you accept that underneath learned social interaction every single human being on the planet is a reprehensible waste of space no matter what other accomplishments they have, or you make the internet and everything associated with it no longer anonymous.