Poll: Biased Gender Politics and Violence

[Paradoxrifts]

http://memegenerator.net/Privilege-Denying-Dude

My privilege? My privilege did you say?

To earn a mere handful of cents an hour more to work harder preforming a physical, dirty menial job next to the oven at a manufacturing plant, a position that women flaked out on so often the company adopted an unofficial man area only policy? While the company staffs their slower paced sorting, packing and clerical positions exclusively with women in order to keep their gender employment ratios even somewhat balanced. The privilege to, on occasion, unload all the heavy materials on behalf of those very same girls in packing and sort because, apparently, they're too weak, fragile and feminine whenever it suits them to do it themselves? And if it isn't me doing what should be their hard work, then without fail, no chance of failure, it will be some other guy doing it even if that guy happens to be pushing past fifty with a wrecked back?

Did you mean that privilege?

Yes. I feel incredibly privileged. Clearly when all you've got to offer an employer is a pair of hands and basic skills in literacy and numeracy, both genders should be paid an equal award wage for working the same hours in the same industry.

I'm sure the hard-work, shitty conditions and expectation to do all the heavy lifting are all privileges men will get to keep even if women manage to enforce wage parity in low income socioeconomic bracket. That's the only 'privilege' we'll be allowed to keep.

We could group hug, but I don't think I could fit my arms around your grandiose sense of entitlement.

 

[itsthesheppy]

http://memegenerator.net/Privilege-Denying-Dude

My privilege? My privilege did you say?

To earn a mere handful of cents an hour more to work harder preforming a physical, dirty menial job next to the oven at a manufacturing plant, a position that women flaked out on so often the company adopted an unofficial man area only policy? While the company staffs their slower paced sorting, packing and clerical positions exclusively with women in order to keep their gender employment ratios even somewhat balanced. The privilege to, on occasion, unload all the heavy materials on behalf of those very same girls in packing and sort because, apparently, they're too weak, fragile and feminine whenever it suits them to do it themselves? And if it isn't me doing what should be their hard work, then without fail, no chance of failure, it will be some other guy doing it even if that guy happens to be pushing past fifty with a wrecked back?

Did you mean that privilege?

Yes. I feel incredibly privileged. Clearly when all you've got to offer an employer is a pair of hands and basic skills in literacy and numeracy, both genders should be paid an equal award wage for working the same hours in the same industry.

I'm sure the hard-work, shitty conditions and expectation to do all the heavy lifting are all privileges men will get to keep even if women manage to enforce wage parity in low income socioeconomic bracket. That's the only 'privilege' we'll be allowed to keep.

We could group hug, but I don't think I could fit my arms around your grandiose sense of entitlement.

I found one on page two that pretty much fit your post perfectly. There's one in there for almost every post in this thread! It's quite a lot of fun!

Edit: I may as well go on, since I have a rapt audience of people shouting me down. You guys do know you're wandering dangerously into 'doth protest too much' territory, yes?

Think for just a moment why it is I'm a 'shithead' worth attacking. What exactly about what I'm saying is so unpalatable? You know to hear people talk, you'd think nobody belonged to any majorities. Christians are always under attack, Muslims are under attack, Xmas is under attack, men are under attack, American Family Values are under attack, republicans are under attack, democrats are under attack, and so on. We're all of us victims, all of us are the *real* oppressed masses, the downtrodden few, the forgotten abused. It's always *our* issues that are the real, unspoken, hidden, ignored. And any attention we give to Their issues (and don't worry who They are, it doesn't matter) takes away from *our* rights and attention and dignity, etc.

Of course *I'm* not privileged! I have to go to work every day! It's those trust fund jerks who are privileged! I'm not, I have to ride the bus to work! I'm not, I can't afford a smart phone! I'm not, I have to drive a truck/hoe a field/collect garbage/tame lions for a living. I have it *hard* and who's out there looking out for me? Who's protecting me from my right to __________?

It's a great big ol' complicated world out there, and very little of it is 'fair'. Every single one of us are victims. Go to a maximum security prison and you can probably count on one hand the number of people who will say "Oh, I totally deserve to be in here. I was a jerk, acted like a right evil bastard and I hurt people for fun." We all have struggles, it's always the world, or Them, who conspired against our happiness and so forth.

The thing you need to realize is that there is disparity. We're not all given the same hand of cards to play when we're born and I'm not talking about how rich our parents are, though that does play a big hand. What country, what race, what gender, what sexual orientation you're born with determines how easy or hard you will have it. There are shades of gray; some will have it easier than others. But just because *you* feel like you have it particularly hard doesn't mean a) that that's necessarily true, or b) that others don't have it worse, and that c) it's not your fault. You're not a bad person if you recognize that. If you own it. It just makes you self-aware.

 

[Sindaine]

I recently read an article on domestic violence, and was a little annoyed to see that every case mentioned involved violence by a abusive husband against a defenceless wife.

Growing up on Marine Corps bases, I can tell you that domestic violence against men is every bit as common as violence against women. But there are a number of societal norms that perpetuate myths to the contrary.

1. Especially among groups like Marines, a man would be incredibly embarrassed to come out and say, "My wife smacks, bites, and scratches me, and I need help." So, in most cases, they don't. The unexplained marks are just attributed to "guy stuff."

2. When they do open up about, they're told things like, "Man up," or "Just do something about it," or simply laughed off. No one recognizes that it creates a hostile and stressful home environment, or that the physical harm is in any way serious.

3. Because of society's view that women are more apt to be victims, they more actively search out violence against women. And it's happening, so if you look for it, you will find it. And it's awful. But we're not as actively searching out the violence against men, so we don't seem to see as much of it.

4. What's more, when a guy does speak up, too many people see it as a man trying to "steal attention" away from violence against women. He's shot down as faking, lying, whining, or he's made out to be the abuser (emotionally or physically) in order to preserve the status quo. That means the guy is being marginalized and ridiculed by both sides (the "man up" side, and the "only women get abused" side).

5. Alongside this, there seems to be a major cultural assumption that if a woman hits a man, it's because of something he did. He cheated on her. He forgot something important. He mentioned her weight. Something, surely -- I mean, why else would she be so mad she'd hit the guy? We don't just "not believe" him, we pre-blame him for the violence.

These factors ensure that fewer men come forward, which means there are even more eyes watching the few that do, which makes the backlash against them even harder, which means even fewer want to come forward, which means... you get the idea. It's a cycle that works via the exact same mechanism as the horrible "Blame the Rape Victim" mentality, and the emotional reactionism makes any intelligent discussion of the matter impossible.

Here's some interesting facts about the other side of this (and this is from back in 2005):

Myths about Domestic Violence Against Men

This. I attended a therapy group that had a man in it--one of his wife's cousins raped him at knifepoint, telling him afterward that if he ever admitted it to anyone, she'd claim the reverse was true--and who would they believe? The sexual disfunction this caused him made his wife leave him (she apparently thought he was 'turning gay') and several times he'd tried to commit suicide. Several members of the group mocked him or outright insinuated he deserved what he'd experienced because of his gender.

 

[Chaos-Spider]

DAMNIT OP! Why did you have to go and declare yourself an equalist? Now nothing will ever get discussed. And all our benders will be very disappointed.

If we discuss nothing at these meetings, doesn't it mean that Tarlock and the Bender dominated government will win as we will do nothing to stop them.

As for this thread however, I brought popcorn, want to share?

 

[Don Savik]

Here's what confuses me about this whole situation we got going on (a pretty mindless and stupid one at that to be entirely honest). Some claim that feminism is the pursuit of women's rights, and others say that its the pursuit of EVERYONE's rights, male or female.

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

Yes, statiscally women have more domestic abuse cases then men, and yes its sad, but NO it doesn't make men's problems any less worse. Men aren't more privileged because they're statiscally in more higher ranking jobs, its a case by case basis.

This. I attended a therapy group that had a man in it--one of his wife's cousins raped him at knifepoint, telling him afterward that if he ever admitted it to anyone, she'd claim the reverse was true--and who would they believe? The sexual disfunction this caused him made his wife leave him (she apparently thought he was 'turning gay') and several times he'd tried to commit suicide. Several members of the group mocked him or outright insinuated he deserved what he'd experienced because of his gender.

That truly is a sad story. Its kind of sick to see people in the exact same situation mocking him just because he happens to be male. I hope the guy got some help, honestly. Suicide and depression is no joke, trust me on that one. I fail to see how the minorities problem loses importance just because a the majority is also experiencing it. Shouldn't we help everyone? People sometimes.....

 

[Eamar]

Here's what confuses me about this whole situation we got going on (a pretty mindless and stupid one at that to be entirely honest). Some claim that feminism is the pursuit of women's rights, and others say that its the pursuit of EVERYONE's rights, male or female.

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

Yes, statiscally women have more domestic abuse cases then men, and yes its sad, but NO it doesn't make men's problems any less worse. Men aren't more privileged because they're statiscally in more higher ranking jobs, its a case by case basis.

This. I attended a therapy group that had a man in it--one of his wife's cousins raped him at knifepoint, telling him afterward that if he ever admitted it to anyone, she'd claim the reverse was true--and who would they believe? The sexual disfunction this caused him made his wife leave him (she apparently thought he was 'turning gay') and several times he'd tried to commit suicide. Several members of the group mocked him or outright insinuated he deserved what he'd experienced because of his gender.

That truly is a sad story. Its kind of sick to see people in the exact same situation mocking him just because he happens to be male. I hope the guy got some help, honestly. Suicide and depression is no joke, trust me on that one. I fail to see how the minorities problem loses importance just because a the majority is also experiencing it. Shouldn't we help everyone? People sometimes.....

The idea is that feminism is indeed about pursuing women's rights, but the end result is meant to be equality for everyone. Feminism is a subsection of egalitarianism (what people in these threads have insisted on calling "equalism" - seriously guys, the terms already exists, you don't need to be making up words) that focuses on women. That doesn't mean that feminists don't care about men's rights, it's just that when they're actively campaigning as feminists they concentrate on things that apply to women. Like how LGBT campaigners focus on LGBT issues, but aren't necessarily against straight people. They want to be equal to straight people, hence they actually support equality for all. Same with feminism. They campaign for women's rights but underneath that they support equal rights for everyone.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

If the word "mankind" is meant to encompass everyone, why has it got the word "man" in it? When some feminist writers wanted to change the spelling of "woman" to "womyn" so as to no longer have the term "man" in it, they were ridiculed. Now a lot of people are doing the exact same thing by demanding that "feminism" have the feminine connotations removed. What about all the masculine connotations in every day language? Please spare me this "equalist" nonsense. This isn't a children's cartoon. It just so happens that "feminism" is the name of the movement that promotes equality for both genders.

In the words of Korra, "Deal with it".

 

[Phasmal]

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

Spoiler: Ummm...

Sarcastic pictures aside, that is kind of a point. I dont explode every time I get called `dude` or `bro` or `guy`. Why are they gender inclusive but `feminism` cant be?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

Well, it refers to women being equal to men.

Now, technically you could get rid of everyone's rights, and that'd be equal, but most people tend to want to have equal rights with people that have some.

Spoiler: snip

I found one on page two that pretty much fit your post perfectly. There's one in there for almost every post in this thread! It's quite a lot of fun!

Edit: I may as well go on, since I have a rapt audience of people shouting me down. You guys do know you're wandering dangerously into 'doth protest too much' territory, yes?

Think for just a moment why it is I'm a 'shithead' worth attacking. What exactly about what I'm saying is so unpalatable? You know to hear people talk, you'd think nobody belonged to any majorities. Christians are always under attack, Muslims are under attack, Xmas is under attack, men are under attack, American Family Values are under attack, republicans are under attack, democrats are under attack, and so on. We're all of us victims, all of us are the *real* oppressed masses, the downtrodden few, the forgotten abused. It's always *our* issues that are the real, unspoken, hidden, ignored. And any attention we give to Their issues (and don't worry who They are, it doesn't matter) takes away from *our* rights and attention and dignity, etc.

Of course *I'm* not privileged! I have to go to work every day! It's those trust fund jerks who are privileged! I'm not, I have to ride the bus to work! I'm not, I can't afford a smart phone! I'm not, I have to drive a truck/hoe a field/collect garbage/tame lions for a living. I have it *hard* and who's out there looking out for me? Who's protecting me from my right to __________?

It's a great big ol' complicated world out there, and very little of it is 'fair'. Every single one of us are victims. Go to a maximum security prison and you can probably count on one hand the number of people who will say "Oh, I totally deserve to be in here. I was a jerk, acted like a right evil bastard and I hurt people for fun." We all have struggles, it's always the world, or Them, who conspired against our happiness and so forth.

The thing you need to realize is that there is disparity. We're not all given the same hand of cards to play when we're born and I'm not talking about how rich our parents are, though that does play a big hand. What country, what race, what gender, what sexual orientation you're born with determines how easy or hard you will have it. There are shades of gray; some will have it easier than others. But just because *you* feel like you have it particularly hard doesn't mean a) that that's necessarily true, or b) that others don't have it worse, and that c) it's not your fault. You're not a bad person if you recognize that. If you own it. It just makes you self-aware.

Argh, yes.

"I don't have X privilege, so don't you dare point out my Y and Z privilege".

 

[Aprilgold]

Society tells boys not to hit girls not because it's sexist against boys, but because for hundreds of years, women were seen as inferior. And because the message isn't getting through.

In Australia, something like 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted during their lifetime, overwhelming by men. That's something like 2.5 million women, 5 times the population of Tasmania. You go to work every day, how many women are you passing that have been, or will be, sexaully assaulted at least once during their lifetimes?

By contrast, the number of male sexual assaults is about one quarter of that, and again, it's predominantely by men.

Yes, it sucks to be told over and over again not to hit women, and that sexual assaults against men has had "much smaller" confused with "don't bother mentioning". But men are getting a much better deal.

You know you've been on wikipedia much, like myself when you start asking for Citations. I'm not arguing this isn't a possibility, but there are some pretty big numbers in the post.

Wow, what a complete and total misunderstanding of "feminism" or what the word actually means to people who use it. It's true that a lot of feminist discourse discusses issues of power through the term "patriarchy" but that's because men do still hold a great deal more power, money, and influence in society than women, and the reasons for this are not based on merit but on gender constructions that cause problems for everybody.

So, why do they hold a great deal more power, money and influence? This should be fun.

Educate yourself, don't ask a woman to do your work.

Are you seriously not going to answer his question because hes bothering you, I'm supposing female from what you've written and instinctively, because hes asking this of a female that he can't have a simple question answered.

I'll answer his question, because this will be slightly easy. Decades and generations of men being the top. Being the working man, being president, being land owners, just everywhere in the past has pretty much been men are better then women. This is just starting to change now.

That is the reason men have held power is simply from generations of being on top of the pile. That is my guess, coming up with a distinct answer would take more time then I currently have.

----------------- ------------------ ------------------ ----------------------- -------------

Is it OK if my answer is to fuck off everyone, give everyone the same current rights therefore everything is equal and to murder gender roles in its country home on the villa during the sunset? Because thats what I want. I want no one at the top of the food chain in society and I want no one at the bottom. Fuck everything lets just divvy up current rights for the most privileged person and hand it to everyone.

Crazy? Probably but this is the simplest way to solve the problem of some feminists wanting to get more rights then males and will instead do what they originally wanted, which is the same rights as males.

 

[Hagi]

I've never understood threads like this.

They all seem to be based on the idea that if one calls himself something and then does something evil then everyone who calls themselves likewise shares responsibility.

You know, that exact same logic used by various officials to pass laws that attempt to ban video games?

"Often when you see gamers involved in the 8pm news it will be related to cases of violence. On top of that I can't say I personally know any gamers who aren't violent people."

"Often when you see feminists involved in the 8pm news it will be related to hating men. On top of that I can't say I personally know any feminists who don't hate men."

It just seems hypocritical to me...

 

[Don Savik]

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

If the word "mankind" is meant to encompass everyone, why has it got the word "man" in it? When some feminist writers wanted to change the spelling of "woman" to "womyn" so as to no longer have the term "man" in it, they were ridiculed. Now a lot of people are doing the exact same thing by demanding that "feminism" have the feminine connotations removed. What about all the masculine connotations in every day language? Please spare me this "equalist" nonsense. This isn't a children's cartoon. It just so happens that "feminism" is the name of the movement that promotes equality for both genders.

In the words of Korra, "Deal with it".

This isn't a children's cartoon....and then posting a quote from a children's cartoon.

:/ well ya got me, my argument has been crushed under your superior and brain draining logic.

No seriously, I can see where you're coming from, your message is hidden between some attacking because you think I might be sexist or idk? but its there.

Feminism is not the same thing as equality for both genders, its the advancement of one gender to become equal with the other. Slightly different, but still a difference.

Anyway, I'm done posting on this, I was trying to go for a "one and done" post because this thread is a nightmare from which there is no escape. Seriously, we're talking about dictionary definitions for crying out loud. Every time one of these threads pop-up its a crusade against all supposed sexists and supposed feminists. These just need to stop.

 

[Don Savik]

Now......can someone answer a simple question. If it has nothing to do with women specifically, then why is it called feminism? I'm pretty sure the "fem" root of the word has nothing to do with men, but hey, maybe you just don't care that you're butching and twisting the english language. I think the word for that IS equalist, and you just want to continue using feminist for some reason.

Spoiler: Ummm...

Sarcastic pictures aside, that is kind of a point. I dont explode every time I get called `dude` or `bro` or `guy`. Why are they gender inclusive but `feminism` cant be?

When talking about a gender rights movement they kind of NEED to be gender inclusive wouldn't you agree? I mean, that's the entire point. Otherwise they wouldn't have a problem calling themselves masculinists, which for some reason they do.

That picture though is just as pretentious as the people its trying (and failing) to insult though. Its quite an ironic backlash.

Anyways I'm done with this thread because its a void from which there is no escape. I hope you don't think I'm a sexist who hates and trolls on women....but then again that's up for you to decide. Laters :/

 

[Phasmal]

When talking about a gender rights movement they kind of NEED to be gender inclusive wouldn't you agree? I mean, that's the entire point. Otherwise they wouldn't have a problem calling themselves masculinists, which for some reason they do.

That picture though is just as pretentious as the people its trying (and failing) to insult though. Its quite an ironic backlash.

Anyways I'm done with this thread because its a void from which there is no escape. I hope you don't think I'm a sexist who hates and trolls on women....but then again that's up for you to decide. Laters :/

And talking about the entire human race you don't need to be gender inclusive?
I just think its rather silly to say `I'm not sexist but I can't associate with this word because it sounds female`.

Not that I'm assuming you are sexist, no such thing. I'm not dumb enough to decide what other people think based on a few statements on the internet.

"Often when you see gamers involved in the 8pm news it will be related to cases of violence. On top of that I can't say I personally know any gamers who aren't violent people."

"Often when you see feminists involved in the 8pm news it will be related to hating men. On top of that I can't say I personally know any feminists who don't hate men."

That's funny and true and awesome.

 

[Eamar]

I've never understood threads like this.

They all seem to be based on the idea that if one calls himself something and then does something evil then everyone who calls themselves likewise shares responsibility.

You know, that exact same logic used by various officials to pass laws that attempt to ban video games?

"Often when you see gamers involved in the 8pm news it will be related to cases of violence. On top of that I can't say I personally know any gamers who aren't violent people."

"Often when you see feminists involved in the 8pm news it will be related to hating men. On top of that I can't say I personally know any feminists who don't hate men."

It just seems hypocritical to me...

Oh my god this. This is brilliant, I can't believe I didn't think of this parallel a few days ago when people were telling me that they refuse to accept feminism because the feminists they've heard about have been bad. Damn.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

DAMNIT OP! Why did you have to go and declare yourself an equalist? Now nothing will ever get discussed. And all our benders will be very disappointed.

If we discuss nothing at these meetings, doesn't it mean that Tarlock and the Bender dominated government will win as we will do nothing to stop them.

As for this thread however, I brought popcorn, want to share?

Considering how out of hand it appears this thread got really quickly I'm thinking it's well beyond popcorn time. If only it could have been derailed earlier at some point.

Spoiler: Oh well

 

[Something Amyss]

As I explained earlier:

Source? The only posts I found from you say the exact same thing verbatim, claiming peer-review evidence without any links or even citations. If you're going to go on a tirade about how wrong the common line of thought is, at least have the decency to demonstrate it with something other than "BECAUSE PONIES!"

Also, if this sounds a little annoyed, the last guy who made a claim like this was reticent to actually provide evidence, then hid behind citations he probably hoped nobody would read--because they actually showed the opposite of what he was claiming.