Poll: but, I KNOW the earth is flat!
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Philosophy students eh, and I thought Sociology students were bad.
I know what colour my computer is because I can see it perfectly fine and I certainly know who my mother is, what's the point of even discussing this, it's like an explorer discovers, a scientist explains and a philosopher raises questions. Pointless, pointless questions.
I know what colour my computer is because I can see it perfectly fine and I certainly know who my mother is, what's the point of even discussing this, it's like an explorer discovers, a scientist explains and a philosopher raises questions. Pointless, pointless questions.
Sgt Doom said:
I will say excessive cynicism can be bad for you... I fear greatly the day when I have no more questions to ask, for it means I have stopped growing, and have nothing left but to die.Pegghead said:
No matter how secure you feel in your situation, never fear asking questions about what is around you. Most of those questions merely await the asking in this, the information age, and the internet all too happily provides answers.
... Huh. did I just wax poetic there? goddammit.
As once put forth by a certain rap group -Ameatypie said:
We measure things by what we are. To the maggots in the cheese, the cheese is the universe. To the worms in the corpse, the corpse is the cosmos. How then can we be so cock-sure about our world? Just because of our Telescopes and microscopes and the splitting of the atom? Certainly not. Science is but an organized system of ignorance. There are more things in heaven and on earth than are in a tenth of our philosophy. What do we know about the beyond? Do we know what's behind the beyond? I'm afraid some of us don't even know what's beyond the behind.
Source it or you're full of shit.OmegaXzors said:
OT: The only way we know anything is by assuming that at some point, someone has told the truth. In reality, you can't really know anything(eg above post), you can only assume and hope that what you know is true. Things become fact when multiple people believe the same thing so that is the accepted truth. Even the proof must be believed in or else it isn't actually proof at all, at least not to those who believe in something else already.
The only other way to know the truth is to experience it yourself, although even that has its issues at times but for the most part it works out okay. And to answer one of your questions, I know I am reading this because I am reading this. I was there when it happened and do not have to rely on anyone but myself to know this. So there. Just five billion other philosophy questions to go.
I disagree, to an extent. There is no correct outlook on life, so I always ask myself what my outlook is. Usually, I can't come up with a complete answer. That's fine. I prefer to question everything that I can; some things I must take for granted in order to operate within the structured framework which I require in order to make informed decisions about the events that I encounter daily. Everything other than that is up for questioning, and, when I can spare it, I endeavor to question the framework I use as well; it is no more sacred than anything else I encounter.Pegghead said:
Admittedly, there are things about which I simply do not have time to question. These things I file away as 'curiosities;' they are details that I am willing to accept as true for the time being but will not admit into the framework I use to judge reality. Many, many details fall into this category as the world is much more able to produce facts than I am to assimilate them. Even so, I accept that my perception of this reality is fluid and changing. I can see no alternative to this; where my perceptions not mutable then there would be no purpose in learning from or experiencing this world.
A paradox is merely a confusion of definitions. Nature has no paradoxes.JLML said:
My mind is telling me I'm reading this. Cogito ergo sum, right (though tbh I've always found cogito ergo sum a bit of a cop-out)? Assuming I am real, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the things I perceive are real too, unless I have a good reason to assume otherwise. If I see flying pink elephants, I have reason to assume I'm hallucinating. If I'm reading an ordinary forum post I might still be hallucinating, but I have no reason to assume I am and thus accept it as reality until evidence to the contrary.Ameatypie said:
I know my laptop is black because it is the color I've learned to call black. What color it really is is entirely irrelevant. Say, for example, that everyone else's black is my blue. In that case I've always learned to call blue black, and when I say "black" I'm referring to the same thing as anyone else's black. Since I have no way to directly communicate what I'm seeing to anyone, it's impossible for me to find out whether I'm seeing the same thing as everyone else, but because language has been taught to me in a way that conforms to everyone else's language I still won't get my colors mixed up even if I'm seeing something completely different.
I know who my mother is because I've been raised by her. Sure, I might have been switched at birth or something without anyone knowing it, but again, that's not likely or even relevant unless I find evidence of it.
I know how I look because of mirrors. Again, there's no logical reason to assume that every mirror I've ever looked into was lying to me or somehow distorting the truth.
I know the Earth is round because a lot of modern technology wouldn't work if it wasn't round. Also, people have traveled around the world, and people have traveled into space and have seen it was round. Again, there's no reason to assume everyone has been lying to me about these things.
I think it all boils down to three things:
- Perspective. My black might not be your black, but we both know black when we see it because the understanding of the word "black" was built around our personal experience of the color we call black.
- Trust. We trust that the things we've been thought are true because we believe the reasoning behind it. Knowing the 'truth' in this way is a bit of a dangerous thing, because people also trusted that the Earth was flat for a long time. Still, there's nothing wrong with believing in something that's wrong as long as we're willing to change this belief when new evidence is found that doesn't support the current theory. In a way, modern science is based on this kind of trust. Modern physics wouldn't be possible without a lot of people who are now long dead, who discovered certain principles they still work with today. Of course, in order to be reliable these principles must be under constant scrutiny, but that's kinda what science is about.
- Occam's razor. If the evidence supports multiple answers, the simplest one is preferred. I can go and assume we're all human batteries hooked up to The Matrix and that everything I know and experience is fake, but why would I assume that if it's just as likely that everything is real? It's not like I'll ever figure out the difference anyway.
What else would i be doing but if not reading this, i know i could go do otehr stuff, but in the proccess of reading this i AM reading this, whatelse would i be doing? Even if this was teh matrix or somehting liek that, i'd still be reading text, i see what is written an intepretate teh letters, i have memory of readin it, i am responding to it.
My computer is black, i know it is, i can recognice the color. Possibly, otehr people might see it as a different color, and still call it black. Black (or any otehr color) isn't an ultiamte truth, it's a name we have given to descrieb things, when someone describes something black i know what they're describing (or at least teh color of it) So it's working.
Instead of repeating this for every question, i'll com ewith one myself, whats teh point of asking questions that can't be answered (cause they don't accept science as an answer) and which doesn't need answering, cause they're pointless.
They may sound smart and very "thinking" but to me they more or less sounds like fancy words used to basicly say nothing, i did this durring gymnasium at verdbal tests, and the teachers eat it raw with glee.
As for teh world, for starters you can sail or fly around it, you can see it's shape from space, we have sattelites orbiting it. If it wasn't round these things wouldn't be possible.
We (mankind) know things, cause otehrwise we wouldn't have been able to do the things we do.
I find question like those to lack impact, cause they dismiss everything done to date, everything that backs up the answers, and packs no proof, no deep theories or anything, just a question and sometimes the ever so arrogant, "it's just cause you don't understand, cause you don't care to think outside the box" Well i'll admit, im not a genious with an IQ off teh charts, no honestly, neitehr are most of the people i've met who read stuff like this in a book, and thinks they've become oh so deep and insightfull.
So i say, leave science to the scientists, they can and have already answered all of the questions above in the last paragraph, and let philosophical thinking revolve about things science can't explain, cause science is doing a pretty good job, someone might claim that the world might not be round after all, and that we cannot know such thing for sure, well okay, but we it enough, to send sattelites into orbit, to travel aroudn it in flying metal cigars with wings and stuff, actually accomplishing something instead of asking questions iwthout a purpose or a follow up action to do something with them or try to answer them.
This may sound a bit harsh, and i don't mean this as flaming, i just find discussion to go a lot easier and go somewhere when you stay away from hatefull flaming, but also leave courtesy enough behind, to actually say something instead of beeing afraid that you're not gonan sound like a 1920's noble gentleman.
My computer is black, i know it is, i can recognice the color. Possibly, otehr people might see it as a different color, and still call it black. Black (or any otehr color) isn't an ultiamte truth, it's a name we have given to descrieb things, when someone describes something black i know what they're describing (or at least teh color of it) So it's working.
Instead of repeating this for every question, i'll com ewith one myself, whats teh point of asking questions that can't be answered (cause they don't accept science as an answer) and which doesn't need answering, cause they're pointless.
They may sound smart and very "thinking" but to me they more or less sounds like fancy words used to basicly say nothing, i did this durring gymnasium at verdbal tests, and the teachers eat it raw with glee.
As for teh world, for starters you can sail or fly around it, you can see it's shape from space, we have sattelites orbiting it. If it wasn't round these things wouldn't be possible.
We (mankind) know things, cause otehrwise we wouldn't have been able to do the things we do.
I find question like those to lack impact, cause they dismiss everything done to date, everything that backs up the answers, and packs no proof, no deep theories or anything, just a question and sometimes the ever so arrogant, "it's just cause you don't understand, cause you don't care to think outside the box" Well i'll admit, im not a genious with an IQ off teh charts, no honestly, neitehr are most of the people i've met who read stuff like this in a book, and thinks they've become oh so deep and insightfull.
So i say, leave science to the scientists, they can and have already answered all of the questions above in the last paragraph, and let philosophical thinking revolve about things science can't explain, cause science is doing a pretty good job, someone might claim that the world might not be round after all, and that we cannot know such thing for sure, well okay, but we it enough, to send sattelites into orbit, to travel aroudn it in flying metal cigars with wings and stuff, actually accomplishing something instead of asking questions iwthout a purpose or a follow up action to do something with them or try to answer them.
This may sound a bit harsh, and i don't mean this as flaming, i just find discussion to go a lot easier and go somewhere when you stay away from hatefull flaming, but also leave courtesy enough behind, to actually say something instead of beeing afraid that you're not gonan sound like a 1920's noble gentleman.
Sure I can't know if I know crap but I can still believe in it. If what I believe actually is true then lucky me I did have some knowledge.
But just a side note, I can know some things e.g. the statement "if 1+1=2 is true then 1+1=2 is true" I can know to be true as I defined it to be. So with other words anything that is purely abstract, like maths, can be known but not anything that is in any way related to anything that is supposedly real.
But just a side note, I can know some things e.g. the statement "if 1+1=2 is true then 1+1=2 is true" I can know to be true as I defined it to be. So with other words anything that is purely abstract, like maths, can be known but not anything that is in any way related to anything that is supposedly real.
We can be sure of some things.
I am my parents child. Genetics tells me that.
The Earth is round. Satellite imagery tells me that.
A carbon atom weighs approximately 12 Daltons. The mass spectrometer I work with tells me that.
I am talking shit over the internet. My common sense tells me that.
If you can honestly second guess yourself over what you're doing with your own hands, you have HUGE issues.
I am my parents child. Genetics tells me that.
The Earth is round. Satellite imagery tells me that.
A carbon atom weighs approximately 12 Daltons. The mass spectrometer I work with tells me that.
I am talking shit over the internet. My common sense tells me that.
If you can honestly second guess yourself over what you're doing with your own hands, you have HUGE issues.
There is no truth in a world defined by perception, and this I have come to terms with. I am aware that I do not exist as I once thought, and I am comfortable with the fact. I am aware that my only purpose in this life is to live as best as my incomplete mind can comprehend, and to this I am resigned. I have looked into the darkness that is my brief existence, and in it found glorious light and joy unlike any other in this world. I have found the light of knowledge, within the shadow of ignorance.
All I know are the lies I have taught myself.~ Me, just now.
And I realized all that and wrote a paper on it when I was thirteen years old.
On an unrelated note, I once managed to screw with the head of a teenage girl by standing on a ladder behind a large brick wall and telling her I could see over it because I told myself I was tall.
It was fun.
All I know are the lies I have taught myself.~ Me, just now.
And I realized all that and wrote a paper on it when I was thirteen years old.
On an unrelated note, I once managed to screw with the head of a teenage girl by standing on a ladder behind a large brick wall and telling her I could see over it because I told myself I was tall.
It was fun.
There is no certainty in life, only assumptions. Plato, brings back to horrid Greek classes with truths behind thruths and ideas behind that... No, you can't know anything, but to counter what Plato says, there isn't a universal objective truth either.
Actually just to correct you on that the Greeks knew the world was round. That is because if you go to a bay and watch the ships come in you see their sails first. That is how t hey knew the earth was curved. The Greeks also calculated the circumfrence of the Earth but we don't know how accurate they were because no one knows exactly how much one of their measurement is compared to meters. The way they did it I'm sure they calculated how far the sun is from the Earth as it was to with the sine rule.Ameatypie said: