Poll: Buying Used Games is just as Bad as Pirating

[Jandau]

This thread is about comparing pirating and used and finding out which is worse. You can't steal cars, jewelery, and clothes like you can music and video games so there is no comparison. Yes they're both bad but I am trying to argue that Pirating is not worse than buying used.

It is worse. Second-hand sales are nothing more than individuals selling their property (that they acquired legally). One person gives up an item and recieves money in return, while another gains an item but loses money. Pirating is one individual benefiting without losing anything. With second-hand sales, at least the publisher/developer got money from the initial purchase that was then sold (and maybe then resold further). With piracy, there isn't even that.

The crux of the problem with piracy is the nature of the product - namely, no physical resources are used. You can't "pirate" cars, because you can't make an infinite number of cars at no cost by pressing a button. That's why I'm quite mistrustful of any estimates of "damage" to the industry from piracy and second-hand sales - thy all rely on pulling numbers out of the arse since there is no way to make an actual estimate of the profits lost if there were no piracy or second-hand sales. So since there is no way to estimate the damage done, there's no way to argue which is worse based on the money lost. However, that brings me back to my earlier point that each chain of used sales has to start with one initial purchase, hence why Pirating is worse.

 

[Souplex]

Query: Do you also believe that buying a used car is the same as stealing one?

Pirating is free and detracts one sale from the Devs.

False - or at least, not always true. People could (and do) pirate games they never intended to buy in the first place, thus losing the developers nothing. Examples of this might be people with GBA/NDS emulators on the PC when they don't actually own the applicable handheld, but I would wager money that the vast number of PC gaming pirates never intended to pay for a copy in the first place.

Ah, but they pirate because they have the option to. If there were no free options, the pirates would inevitably break down and buy something.

 

[irishstormtrooper]

Why do I always have to be supporting someone with things I buy? I shouldn't get Metallica music, because they are corporate whores. I shouldn't buy used games because that doesn't support the publishers and/or developers. Why is it that I can't get something for purely selfish reasons?

It exists, it's just as good as a new game, and it's $20 cheaper. Who gives a damn where the money's going to? I'm getting a good game for cheap.

 

[electric discordian]

Used games are a massive scam in the UK at the moment. Buy a new game finish it return it after a week lose ten pounds of its value, the game shop charge two pounds less than a new copy this is pure profit. You are essentially paying twice for the same product. I have never pirated but am considering it if game prices continue to rise unabated.

Please industry stop pushing me to be a criminal by your stupid pricing policies and the fact that games depreciate in value faster than a car doesn't help either. Seriously does a disc become more unsaleable the more you "drive" it?

 

[lwm3398]

But it works with pirating too. Someone had to buy the game and put it online so that's one sale too. Though of course when one guy distributes a pirated game, millions can get it, when a used game may only see at most 20 gamers in its lifetime.

Exactly. Pirating has a huge reach, but used has a much smaller one. You need only to buy one game to give it to millions in pirating, but with used it's one game purchased, one game sold again, one game kept, used, by someone else. It's the same game, and the company got money from it. Now it is changing hands to the used-game buyer for less money than the original sale. Do you think the company wants the 30 bucks you payed for that used copy of God of War 2? Do you think it makes that much of a difference?

What I'm saying is that it's different from pirating. I can't put to words how, but it is.

So... copying/downloading is fine as long as I have friend who's bought it legally?

No. What I mean is that buying his copy off of him is alright because he payed for it. It's still one sale, not two. If you copied it because he bought it, that subtracts a sale from the company, but buying theirs cheap is fine because it's the same game. One sale per game.

 

[Signa]

To say pirating is hurting the industry more than used games is to be wrong.

But most of the time the games that are pirated are new releases that have the possibility of making or breaking a developer while used games are usually a year or more older.

That's a gross generalization. I know of a lot of people that buy a new game, beat it, and then trade it in. Those games are going to get sold ASAP because they are still in demand. Hell, I constantly get emails from Amazon asking if I want to trade in the game I bought recently.

It probably is a gross simplification. But I play on PC so I haven't seen the used games pile for the current gen consoles. But I now agree, after thinking about it for a bit, that there are probably a lot of current releases being sold as used games.

See, that's just the thing I was getting at. I'm mostly a PC gamer too (and you know what that means *whistles innocently*), but I have no moral qualms about buying some console games used. I bought them and feel as though I own them. It just doesn't feel the same when I play a game that I don't own. I'm loving the game, and I haven't paid for it! I feel wrong about it. The only way to correct that injustice is to buy the game properly. If I just went out and bought a used copy, nothing in the universe has been corrected, but I feel right about it.

PC devs should be happy that piracy is the only thing plaguing the platform and not used sales. At least they can hope that people will do the right thing eventually instead of never seeing the dollar that is owed them, even after the customer got everything they wanted.

I would like to hear one good reason why gaming should be exempt from the basic economic processes that every other market is subject to?

Games are a consumable piece of information that only a limited section of the population actually experience. Movies are too, but far more people watch movies than play games. There is a lot more room for a used market because its effect on studios is greatly diminished. A lot of devs need every title they make to sell well or their doors close. Anything else (jewelery, cars, etc), isn't consumable and usually only gets sold when the owner upgrades or can't afford to keep their possessions. All those companies need to worry about is producing enough for the demand each year. None of that means that the game industry should be exempt from the used sales, but it means that it is much more vulnerable to being damaged by them. We don't want that, and they don't want that.

 

[Deleted]

This thread is about comparing pirating and used and finding out which is worse. You can't steal cars, jewelery, and clothes like you can music and video games so there is no comparison. Yes they're both bad but I am trying to argue that Pirating is not worse than buying used.

It is worse. Second-hand sales are nothing more than individuals selling their property (that they acquired legally). One person gives up an item and recieves money in return, while another gains an item but loses money. Pirating is one individual benefiting without losing anything. With second-hand sales, at least the publisher/developer got money from the initial purchase that was then sold (and maybe then resold further). With piracy, there isn't even that.

The crux of the problem with piracy is the nature of the product - namely, no physical resources are used. You can't "pirate" cars, because you can't make an infinite number of cars at no cost by pressing a button. That's why I'm quite mistrustful of any estimates of "damage" to the industry from piracy and second-hand sales - thy all rely on pulling numbers out of the arse since there is no way to make an actual estimate of the profits lost if there were no piracy or second-hand sales. So since there is no way to estimate the damage done, there's no way to argue which is worse based on the money lost. However, that brings me back to my earlier point that each chain of used sales has to start with one initial purchase, hence why Pirating is worse.

Damn, you got me there. I can't argue with this. Because a bought game that is distributed used gets in fewer hands, while a pirated game (someone buys the game to distribute it) will be in more hands.

I think its important to note, though, that we won't know how many people "Wouldn't have bought it anyways", in which case those downloads have 0 effect.

 

[Deleted]

Used games are a massive scam in the UK at the moment. Buy a new game finish it return it after a week lose ten pounds of its value, the game shop charge two pounds less than a new copy this is pure profit. You are essentially paying twice for the same product. I have never pirated but am considering it if game prices continue to rise unabated.

Please industry stop pushing me to be a criminal by your stupid pricing policies and the fact that games depreciate in value faster than a car doesn't help either. Seriously does a disc become more unsaleable the more you "drive" it?

Gamestop/EB Games is notorious for this. They buy games from you for ten bucks, and then sell it in front of you for $5 less than new.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

If you buy it used from a friend who bought it full price, that's still one sale of $60 to the developer, just $10 to a friend. Either way, with used games, somebody had to buy them first, then sell them for cheap. The company still gets money, no? They just don't get the money of two sales.

But it works with pirating too. Someone had to buy the game and put it online so that's one sale too. Though of course when one guy distributes a pirated game, millions can get it, when a used game may only see at most 20 gamers in its lifetime.

wait wait whattttttt

20 gamers?

jesus christ that must be one horrible ass game to be bought again and again and resold by that many people, if its getting traded around that much, you might as well call it the village whore game because there is something wrong with a game that gets bought and sold that many times

seriously, probably 5 times if that, no where NEAR 20

pirating is much worse, are you trying to tell me i can't sell my car now because it is used? that it should be worthless and mine till the very end?

 

[williagr]

Query: Do you also believe that buying a used car is the same as stealing one?

Pirating is free and detracts one sale from the Devs.

False - or at least, not always true. People could (and do) pirate games they never intended to buy in the first place, thus losing the developers nothing. Examples of this might be people with GBA/NDS emulators on the PC when they don't actually own the applicable handheld, but I would wager money that the vast number of PC gaming pirates never intended to pay for a copy in the first place.

That's a silly argument, don't you think? If I go into my local Best Buy and steal an XBox 360, is it okay because I never intended to buy it in the first place?

To answer your 'query,' comparing video games to cars is apples and oranges. They're two completely different products when it comes down to the basics. Cars are physical pieces of machinery and has a limited life span. Games on the other hand are digital entertainment, and you don't so much as own a game as you own a license to play the game, which is why most games have a clause in their EULA that says you may not modify the source.

 

[Deleted]

If you buy it used from a friend who bought it full price, that's still one sale of $60 to the developer, just $10 to a friend. Either way, with used games, somebody had to buy them first, then sell them for cheap. The company still gets money, no? They just don't get the money of two sales.

But it works with pirating too. Someone had to buy the game and put it online so that's one sale too. Though of course when one guy distributes a pirated game, millions can get it, when a used game may only see at most 20 gamers in its lifetime.

wait wait whattttttt

20 gamers?

jesus christ that must be one horrible ass game to be bought again and again and resold by that many people, if its getting traded around that much, you might as well call it the village whore game because there is something wrong with a game that gets bought and sold that many times

seriously, probably 5 times if that, no where NEAR 20

pirating is much worse, are you trying to tell me i can't sell my car now because it is used? that it should be worthless and mine till the very end?

There is no market for stolen cars so you can't say used is bad. You can't compare physical products to data!

Also I don't know anything about the travel history of an average used game so that was pulled out of my ass.

 

[Koganesaga]

My first purchased used game had to be returned twice because both didn't work, stick with online, because if you know your account, all is well.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Imagine if Ford started complaining about used-car sales because they didn't make any money from me buying that 2003 Mustang from that used-car lot. That's about what this argument resembles to me.

 

[Mandal0re]

I very rarely buy games new, but ive never pirated a game in my life. I'll buy a title new if its a new release and i really want it but other than that i tend to wait and get a cheap pre owned copy. Why pay more when you dont have to? Plus buying pre owned games is perfectly legal.

 

[SimuLord]

I don't buy used games because it's the worst of both worlds. I did nothing to support the developer and I didn't even get a free game out of the deal! I spend the few extra bucks and always buy new (mind you, PC gaming has no secondary market so this usually isn't an issue.)

 

[Deleted]

Imagine if Ford started complaining about used-car sales because they didn't make any money from me buying that 2003 Mustang from that used-car lot. That's about what this argument resembles to me.

[HEADING=1]You can't Compare Physical Products to Data!!!![/HEADING]

Come on people! Car companies are always trying to meet the demand- they can never make enough, while Dev companies HAVE NO DEMAND because games have no limit in quantity! A used car is bought used because you can't afford a new one! IF there was an option to somehow "pirate" a car then things would be a lot different!

 

[Jandau]

I think its important to note, though, that we won't know how many people "Wouldn't have bought it anyways", in which case those downloads have 0 effect.

We also don't know how many people who bought a game used would have still bought it if it were full price. As I stated earlier, the problem here is that all one can do is pull numbers out of various bodily orifices. And if there's one thing game publishers like doing, it's making things up and then crying about it...

 

[Trivun]

I couldn't care less what the distributors and publishers think. When I buy something I expect to be able to do whatever the hell I like with it. So if I want to sell it on, then that is my right and privelige as a consumer. I buy used when I can. And what are publishers going to about companies like CEX, anyway, who specifically only sell used games (and music and DVDs and so on) anyway?

 

[Bonkekook]

I disagree for the same reason that I would disagree that "renting" games hurts it as well. Compare the three cases. In pirating, there is no "initial purchase". Used games(for the most part) and games rented out have been bought for a certain price already, and are just being passed around now. There is an initial portion of money that is passed around when used and rented games are initially purchased that doesn't happen when you pirate a game.

 

[Jim From Accounting]

ill buy a used game why not if its there and cheaper ill do it mainly because i dont have the kind of cash to piss away on new games