Poll: Buying Used Games is just as Bad as Pirating

[Katana314]

If a person takes on the "business approach" of piracy (i.e. they make copies and sell them on) then that is a f***ing disgrace to any media industry. If someone just sells their only full-copy of a game then it's okay.

[If someone can't see the different in those two sales, raise a question and it can be discussed.]


If a person downloads a game (a game which can only legally be obtained via a legit registered distributer) for free then there's different variations on this which I can see. I'll mention a few but not all.

Variation 1: Person downloads game with intentions of never buying the game.

Variation 2: Person downloads the game with the intentions of buying the game if it's fun.

Variation 3: Person downloads the game out of protest against the assholes who decided to implement a limited install number of the game.

Variation 4: Person cannot obtain a copy of the game in their country.


I support Variations 3 & 4 fully.

Variations 2, 3, and 4 are misguided and wrong, but I won't get into that. Instead, I will illustrate to you an instance of a fun, DRM-free game with a demo available that is available in all countries.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/13/world-of-goo-has-90-piracy-rate/
So Variation 1 consists of 90%. If you consider the few who pirated, then bought, it may be 85% (that is generously assuming HALF of the actual purchases)

Back on topic, a lost sale is a lost sale. And a used buyer can't fall into the above Variation 2, so it's even WORSE. It is, in effect, 'legal piracy' even if you have this nice feeling in yourself of having paid money for it.

 

[Dogstile]

If you buy it used from a friend who bought it full price, that's still one sale of $60 to the developer, just $10 to a friend. Either way, with used games, somebody had to buy them first, then sell them for cheap. The company still gets money, no? They just don't get the money of two sales.

So... copying/downloading is fine as long as I have friend who's bought it legally?

He said brought it. Plus only one of you would have the copy after the money is exchanged.

You're just using it as an excuse to cover up your pirating

 

[darrinwright]

The difference between piracy and buying used games is - as several have pointed out - buying used games is PERFECTLY LEGAL. Don't try to equate the two: piracy = theft, buying something = NOT theft.

 

[HardkorSB]

There is no market for stolen cars

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Enigmers]

The difference between piracy and buying used games is - as several have pointed out - buying used games is PERFECTLY LEGAL. Don't try to equate the two: piracy = theft, buying something = NOT theft.

Pirating a game = the developer gets no money from your sale.
Buying a used game = the developer gets no money from your sale.

If you pirating a game is "stealing" then when Gamestop buys games from you at 2$ worth of store credit, then turns around and makes 40$ worth of pure unadulterated profit, that's NOT stealing?

 

[captain_Bubblebum]

@Katana314

Can you explain why it is bad to buy a used game? I don't understand why it is seen to be bad.

I know that we feel things are good and bad because we are told so, but why is it bad? I really don't understand it.

It doesn't make any difference and I shouldn't be stating this but I am a games developer and if a person bought my game from another person (again, as long as it's the full game and not a knock-off copy) and even though I would not receive any money from the transaction I do not see it to be wrong.

I would actually be happy that someone is playing my game.

 

[Enigmers]

Variation 3: Person downloads the game out of protest against the assholes who decided to implement a limited install number of the game.

Variation 4: Person cannot obtain a copy of the game in their country.


I support Variations 3 & 4 fully.

no person 3 is an asshole who should never play the game.

So what you're saying is, someone who thinks paying customers shouldn't be screwed over by retarded DRM is an asshole? I fail to see the logic.

 

[Gildan Bladeborn]

The difference between piracy and buying used games is - as several have pointed out - buying used games is PERFECTLY LEGAL. Don't try to equate the two: piracy = theft, buying something = NOT theft.

Pirating a game = the developer gets no money from your sale.
Buying a used game = the developer gets no money from your sale.

If you pirating a game is "stealing" then when Gamestop buys games from you at 2$ worth of store credit, then turns around and makes 40$ worth of pure unadulterated profit, that's NOT stealing?

Shameless? Absolutely. Stealing? No - if you buy an out of print book from a used bookstore for more money than it originally retailed for, is that stealing? (No of course not.) Exploiting market forces to your advantage with legally exchanged goods cannot be stealing, but it can certainly fail to provide any benefit to the content creators.

There is however no legal obligation to do that - many of us feel we have a moral obligation, but we aren't legally beholden to ensure content creators see benefit from any sale of their creation.

 

[Phoenixlight]

This thread fails. "Poll", there is no poll. And buying used games is fine, it encourages people to visit game shops and not try to steal the game data.

 

[captain_Bubblebum]

Person 3 would never buy the game because they would be raped of their gaming pleasure at some point in the future so no one is missing out on earnings from the game. And the game still gets to be enjoyed.

The person wins + the game wins + the company suffers for being a stupid dick and not playing the market properly = everyone wins + future companies learn to not fuck people over.

Companies would not be so worried about piracy if they were sure their game was good. If the game is good and not sold at an extortionate price and does not have horrible limitations (World of Goo is a perfect example) then the company has nothing to worry about.

 

[Katana314]

@Katana314

Can you explain why it is bad to buy a used game? I don't understand why it is seen to be bad.

I know that we feel things are good and bad because we are told so, but why is it bad? I really don't understand it.

It doesn't make any difference and I shouldn't be stating this but I am a games developer and if a person bought my game from another person (again, as long as it's the full game and not a knock-off copy) and even though I would not receive any money from the transaction I do not see it to be wrong.

I would actually be happy that someone is playing my game.

That's very good for you; the South Park creators take the same mentality about their show. However, this also depends on levels of success. Most game developers are not very lucky; about 70% of games that make it to the market are unsuccessful and don't cover their own development costs. Then the publisher makes up the difference with games like Modern Warfare which earn 500x its development cost.

The end line is that game developers usually need a lot more money to keep afloat than people realize. If about 30 people buy a game for $50 in one day, that may just about cover the daily salary for every person in that company. If 60 people buy the game, but half of them are buying it from the first half, that's still the same amount.

Even beyond staying afloat, sales determine a developer's future. It doesn't matter if you loved Grim Fandango enough to buy it used; tough luck because that decision, in 1,000's of people, results in the publishers for that developer deciding "Well, that game was a failure. Let's can the team."

 

[someotherguy]

On the surface, I believe it's the same, but for the department in the company in charge of piracy control, it's terrible. Sure, in both cases one copy is bought, but when distributed to millions via pirating, the company sees those as potential sales, and cries. While on the other hand, one game to another gamer to another, is a one to one to one ratio. While used still hurts the company, I don't believe it inflicts nearly as much damage as pirating.

 

[LordZ]

I said allow, not that it would create, meaning the potential is out there. And Almost no one who pirates purchases games. and thats from escapist magazine.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7225-Experienced-Points-Piracy-Numbers

Yea people who pirate dont buy the game, save a very low few. The rest are scum who are criminals and hate the gaming industry, nothing more.

I see a lot of assumptions and no real statistics to back them up in that article. It's rather difficult, if not impossible to find accurate numbers. Most importantly, you say almost no one pirates and then buys but I've seen quite a few people in these very forums say just that, even in this very thread. Yet, you say almost no one. I think you need to rely a lot less on assumptions.

In any event, developers get exactly $0 out of a used sale. Coincidentally, that's the exact same amount they get from pirates. No, they don't get a negative amount of money from pirates because copying a game costs the developer no actual money.