Poll: Can games be art?

[sephiroth1991]

I consider Silent Hill 2 a game of art. So yes i think they can be considered art.

 

[Bison Dollars]

I consider Silent Hill 2 a game of art.

I think that's a good example too, given that it's one of the few games to clearly use stuff like metaphor and symbolism to tell a story.

If movies can be considered art, why not games? Surely all that's added is the element of interactivity, which is already present and used in a lot of the things that stuffier people would consider 'art'.

 

[Irridium]

Want my opinion on the matter?

Who gives a shit?

Why does everyone care what a film critic says? Who cares if games are or aren't art. Even if they were considered art, very little, if anything will change. Games will still be looked down upon, people will still blame games for the world's ills, and people will still try to make laws to restrict games.

I mean really, come on. This debate has gone on long enough and is just annoying as all hell.

Stop worrying about what a film critic thinks about games and enjoy your awesome games.

 

[Ickorus]

Yes but if the game becomes more art than fun then it's not a game any more.

 

[Wintermoot]

yes once we get passed the generic brown FPS,s then yes I consider Portal a piece of art,art is a expresion of the indivedual

 

[Xardas5]

Can games be art?
Search and play Machinarium...nuff said

 

[Mr.Mattress]

Anything anyone makes can be art...

 

[orangeapples]

Mario Paint

/thread

 

[ShakesZX]

If I made a game to be considered as art its art. Some will just see it as a game.

If I made a shelf to with water on it its art. Some will just see it as a shelf with water on it.

Art is art based on who is looking at it and what they are trying to gain from the material. It is ignorant to disregard something not as art by a personal standard. Everyone is different and has a different idea of what art is.

So then by that logic, if i were to go around killing people, because i saw that as art, then it would be art.

Likewise, if I were to take a crap in the middle of an intersection and called that crap art, then it would be?

I think there needs to be a clear motive or a general consensus on what is or is not "art". I could call the moon art, but just because I say it's art doesn't make it so.

I do however believe that some games could be considered art, what would make a game art though, is harder to describe.

 

[Danman1]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-ebert-is-wrong-in-defense-of-games-as-art/

This is my favorite defense of games as art.

 

[Zhukov]

I have lost count of how many times I've said this.

If you want your arguments to mean anything, you have to give a definition of "art".

 

[Halceon]

If you are going to talk about games as art you should first define what are you speaking of - games as a medium for classical forms of art - narrative, audial and visual - or game mechanics as an art form in and of itself.

The first is undisputable - even mostly worthless advertisements can carry highly artistic elements in them (though usually not of the narrative kind). But this doesn't make games art, this makes games artistic media. Just like movies and theaters are media for mostly narrative and visuals.

The second... Well, i'd like to say it's subjective, but it really isn't. All forms of artistic expression have the same basic principles - they are created by a conscious individual and they are made to make the perceiver think or feel in a certain way.
Beautiful natural landscapes aren't art, though they evoke a sense of grandeur, tranquility and/or something else. Generic door knob #7, while being consciously made, has next to no effect on its user's thiking.
Game rules and the behaviours emergent from them, however, are conscious products and can instill emotions and ideas. Despair, achievement, hope, loss, confidence, panic, it's all been done and seen. People tend to not consider this art because a) it has little connection to other art forms (not that they have an awful lot of similarities between them) b) it requires a level of aptitude at perceiving and exploring systems.

 

[adderseal]

I understand this has been discussed before but its hard to get into a conversation and voice one's own opinion on a discussion that no longer exists. Also when was I being "whiny?" I'm trying to ask a serious question for which there has never been nor ever will be a unanimous answer.

Hi, welcome to the site! Before posting any topic, but especially something like this, it's a good idea to use the search bar at the top right of the page to see if it's been done before. (This one has, many times.) That way you can see loads of opinions whilst avoiding lots of grumpy bastards telling you that your thread's overdone.
Good luck!

EDIT: Just saw you said: a discussion that no longer exists. That's true, but this one'll just bring up the same opinions from the old threads anyway.

 

[Chancie]

I suppose they could be (Okami, Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, etc.) but I've never personally considered them art. I could easily describe any of the three games I listed as "artistic" but I don't think I'd actually call them "art." Art to me is something like a painting, drawing, pottery, and even writing, but not an interactive adventure.

 

[geldonyetich]

I'm betting we've had a few threads on this already.

If a game is not art, at the very least they can often be regarded as compilations of art, because if we're already willing to consider music and pictures as art, and games contain elements of these things, then this fellows an implicit definition. However, this doesn't really do justice to the games themselves as being potential works of art in and of themselves.

I suppose it really depends more on the spirit in which the particular game was wrought. Some games, like Today I Die [http://www.ludomancy.com/games/today.php] or The Path [http://tale-of-tales.com/ThePath/] are easily recognized as being art. Your average sports game? Not so much! Games like Patapon or Psychonauts are tricky to classify - they weren't wrought wholly with the intent to be art, but they certainly are artistic in execution.

 

[Tanfastic]

It's and art, just like writing books and movies is.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

Well we consider movies art, and we consider literature art, so why shouldn't an interactive story be art as well?

 

[CloudNineK]

I'm trying to ask a serious question for which there has never been a unanimous answer.

There never will be, art is subjective, everyone sees art as something different. You're asking for a definitive answer on something subjective and personal, its not going to happen.

I agree I don't think there ever will be a unanimous answer, but it is human nature to try to do the impossible. Impossible pursuits are fun to wrap the mind around. My original post tried to break down my way of analyzing how a game could be art, this thread was created so I could share them with other people's opinions and possibly have some good thoughts to walk away with instead of sheer hostility from a topic that I am now aware nobody is interested in even thinking of anymore. I for one, like to look back on old topics with fresh perspectives.

If you are tired of a topic why come into it only to complain about how you don't want to talk about it? That's like catching yourself on fire to remind yourself how much you hate pain.

I came to the topic to explain my opinion, I didn't see any hostility in my post.

You appear to have contradicted yourself a number of times as well."Impossible pursuits are fun to wrap the mind around" this is an impossibility, if you can wrap your mind around the impossible, it becomes possible. You can try, or you can wrap your mind around why its impossible, but not the impossible itself.

1 week later hardly counts as a fresh perspective, the topic has yet to become old, its been talked about constantly for the last few months at least. And like i said art is subjective, and people are stubborn, so the likely hood of anyones opinions changing in that week are next to none.

I believe I have been taken too literally, I merely meant to say that I like the mental tug of war revolving around such a simple, yet potentially complex question. I apologize if this discussion has been upsetting and am getting to know the forums for the first time. I had not seen any other way I could converse about this topic than making a new thread, but now I understand there are many things to consider when making a thread.

I understand this has been discussed before but its hard to get into a conversation and voice one's own opinion on a discussion that no longer exists. Also when was I being "whiny?" I'm trying to ask a serious question for which there has never been nor ever will be a unanimous answer.

Hi, welcome to the site! Before posting any topic, but especially something like this, it's a good idea to use the search bar at the top right of the page to see if it's been done before. (This one has, many times.) That way you can see loads of opinions whilst avoiding lots of grumpy bastards telling you that your thread's overdone.
Good luck!

EDIT: Just saw you said: a discussion that no longer exists. That's true, but this one'll just bring up the same opinions from the old threads anyway.

Thank you for being kind and helpful, I am not exactly new to the site, but I am to the forums(which is obvious if you notice my total posts are about 7). I rarely post and had never been able to participate in this discussion, but I guess it doesn't do me or anybody else any good to start one after this has already been thoroughly discussed. I will use the search bar more and reconsider threads more than I have in the past.

Well, "learning arises from failure" like my original post.

 

[Continuity]

I find it hard to see how games might not be considered artistic, just look at all the creative elements that go into making a game, you've got graphics and level design, modelling, story and script writing, voice acting etc etc.. I mean sure at one end of the spectrum you have minesweeper but then you also have games like Braid, cryostasis, even the fallout series is rich with satire and alternate 50's iconography. the list is endless.