Poll: Confederate Flag: Hate symbol, symbol of pride, heritage, historical meaning, or other?

[Yureina]

Historical meaning that some people take way too seriously.

 

[Miumaru]

The flag is a symbol of independance from the USA. So it is anti-American, literally. So anyone who flaunts it is saying "I do not want to be part of the USA". Racist? I dont know, but it supports dividing the country, and that I am not for. I wont say you cant show it, but I will know how I view you for it.

 

[Kryzantine]

I'd say it's more of a heritage thing now. I can't associate the flag with racism, it's not about that; racists will fly all kinds of national flags, not just the Confederate flag. This flag symbolizes Southern tradition. I don't like how a lot of the posters here believe that it's a reminder of the Civil War. It's a flag that is associated with the South more than the Confederate States of America. It is a reminder of how important family is in this region, how important your class is, and how important your freedom is. It's an icon of the Dixie culture.

 

[MinishArcticFox]

The flag stands for a group of states who basically wanted slaves. Before making any arguement to support it replace "confederate flag" with "swaztika". They're both historical but they're both symbols of hate. If someone's flying a confederate flag chances are they aren't doing it for historical reasons (this coming from someone who lives in the Southern US).

 

[GRoXERs]

Its plain historical heritage. Its was a symbol of the souths succession.

Here is one MAJOR misconception about the Civil War. The war was not fought JUST over slavery. The biggest reason for the war was about the federal government infringing on states rights (kinda whats going on now).

Put it this way.

If some guys up north told you that your only means of wealth was now illegal and without it you would go broke and not be able to provide for your families, wouldn't you fight to keep it? The south didn't have the means to just do it themselves. All the major industry and population was in the North. And don't forget that the North was just as guilty as well. They benefited from the south's slave labor.

Now I'm not saying Slavery was right, it was a horrible part of our history. But we grew from that and became better. Just that a bunch of people decided that its immediately racist and ran with it. Only ignorant people think that. I don't mean to insult those that think that but you need to read deeper into the history of the war.

It's not directly racist, no, and for many of us Southerners it can represent a part of our heritage and history. However, (and this is a big however) a lot of thoroughly racist organizations (you know the ones I mean, and no, NOT the Sons of Confederate Veterans) choose the Confederate Battle Flag (square) / Naval Jack (rectangular) as their way of saying "We want whites back in their rightful place above everyone else." It is because of these people, I think, that the Confederate Battle Flag carries the heavily negative connotations that it does.

Also,

The odd thing I find is that living in Texas, if you get caught DEAD with a confederate flag, they are going to beat you and drag you through the streets in a good ol' fashion lynching.

Where the hell in Texas do YOU live? There're a lot of people in my hometown who fly the Stars and Bars on a level with the U.S. flag in their front yard, and who have CNJ decals on their trucks.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Also,

The odd thing I find is that living in Texas, if you get caught DEAD with a confederate flag, they are going to beat you and drag you through the streets in a good ol' fashion lynching.

Where the hell in Texas do YOU live? There're a lot of people in my hometown who fly the Stars and Bars on a level with the U.S. flag in their front yard, and who have CNJ decals on their trucks.

DFW. Although in all fairness, my neighborhood is dark during the daytime, so that might also be the reason. But that aside, I've seen a lot of people turn their noses up or get very violent towards people that show the confederate flag AND people that show the republic of texas flag. Seccession does not fly around here. It's almost fanatical how people are against it.

 

[RooftopAssassin]

The odd thing I find is that living in Texas, if you get caught DEAD with a confederate flag, they are going to beat you and drag you through the streets in a good ol' fashion lynching. Even today. Yet back with I lived in Michigan, it wasn't all that uncommon to see a confederate flag hung right next to a US flag, and no one batted an eye.

I see it as a part of our history. An awful, bloody part of my history that we should never forget and never repeat. I just find it interesting that in the south here, it's utterly despised, and back up north accepted.

San Antonio? Just a guess, because I'd love to live in your Texas. My Texas is racist, very racist. Not only racist, but ignorant (If you don't include them in the same category).

 

[wizzerd229]

i see it as part pride and part heritage, cuz i live in the south, and i use one

 

[crimson5pheonix]

The confederate flag represents many ideals. But the biggest is states rights (the right of individual states to govern themselves). It's historical and can be a show of pride or heritage. But I believe that if the South had won, they would've ended slavery soon after anyhow. With the nations split, the North could have put trade levies for the South and the South would have been forced to industrialize anyway. But that's just personal opinion, there's no facts to back that up.

Besides, I'm more a fan of Texas than the South.

 

[Ken Sapp]

As someone who has a Confederate battle flag hanging on my wall and who served in the military faithfully and truly I have to say that in my opinion it is a symbol of heritage. Unfortunately, like the swastika before it, it has been adopted as a symbol by some racist groups such as the KKK and thus had its proper symbolic meaning besmirched but I refuse to let them have it outright.
However I also am a realist and while I have shirts featuring the Confederate flag that I have received as gifts, I will rarely if ever wear them as I prefer not to have to deal with those who only see it as a symbol of racism.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I'd say that the flag has meaning beyond racism. The American Civil War might be percieved as little more than a battle to free slaves but there was certainly more to it than that. Yes, slavery was the lynchpin, but the fear was not that the slaves would be freed once Lincon (a vocal abolitionist before his election) was elected but rather that the entire social and economic foundation of the south would be destroyed overnight.

The Southern States lacked the number of large urban centers that allowed for industrilization in the north. This factor itself resulted from a number of things, from the simple fact of inclimate weather in the north to the fact that several of the southern colonies were awarded to English nobles in exchange for alliegance (versus the northern colonies being founded primarily as economic pursuits or religious and social experiments). Worse still, a sudden transition from agucultiral pursuits to industry could not happen quickly - even to this day states like Texas still have significant regions where agriculture is one of the primary professions. The trouble of course was that wide scale farming requires a significant investment in effort in order to actually be profitable. Slaves were a necessary evil in the southern economy and farming for profit without unpaid labor was all but impossible until the widespread use of tractors and mechanization in general.

Beyond the most basic economic factors, the war resulted from the fear of federal infringement upon states rights. If you ignore for a moment the modern presumption that slavery is aprehensible and realize that even at the time of the American Civil War you'd have a hard time finding a majority of people who viewed African "immigrants" as anything approaching the equal of a white man, you might see why the mere possibility that the federal government could destroy your way of life at the stroke of a pen was something worth fighting for.

To this day wars are gladly fought over the ideas of rights and socio-economic status. Yes, in this particular war the core issue around which the rest of these issues hinged was the barbaric act of forcing another person into bondage but that does not negate the fact that such things are worthy of remembering. It was the bloodiest war in American History. I'm sure people in Russia roll their eyes at the toll but it was a war that has impacted the United States in the long decades since. The poorest, least educated states are still in the South and there are places that still harbor a grudge against the north in spite of the fact that no one still living was around at the time.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

Heritage, pride, history... All these things factor in. Some people use it for racism, too, yes, but not everyone who respects this flag does.

What it means to me is something I can agree with. Something the Civil War was fought over. No, not slavery. That wasn't the issue the Civil War was fought over, despite what you might have been lead to believe. That was simply the sub-issue. The real issue the Civil War was fought over was the rights of the state versus the rights of the federal government. The Confederate states rebelled because the laws being handed down from Washington contradicted their own state laws, and they believed that the state laws had precedence and should not be over-ruled. True, the laws at stake were laws regarding slavery, but that was not the main reason the people were fighting. The Confederates were in essence re-enacting what happened in the Revolutionary War. Laws were being handed down from "on high" without regard to what any of the people directly involved thought. No opinions were gathered. No representatives had their say. It was just "make this a law" and that was it. So, the Confederates rebelled against the Northerners the same way the 13 colonies rebelled against England. If they had been better organized, they might have succeeded in their rebellion and founded a new nation. So, just because I agree with the Northerners on this issue, in that slavery of any kind is wrong, I do not agree with how the issue was dealt with by the Northerners. What should have been done was for the government to hear the issues at stake and opinions of those directly affected, and then make a decision. People who feel that their opinions have been heard are less likely to get upset, even if they don't agree with your final decision.

Now, let's take a modern issue that's about as polarizing now as slavery was back in those days: gay marriage. I am personally against any laws regarding gay marriage. (Before I get flamed, see my note at the bottom.) However, I believe that each state should get to decide what they want to do about the issue rather than having a federal law over the whole country. No matter what your views on marriage, be it gay, straight, polygamous, group, or whatever, it will always be a local matter, rather than a national one. Your marriage really only concerns those in the general vicinity. Marriages in California will likely have no effect on me in Maryland, and vice versa. Therefore, the laws should be on the more local level as well, as the people in California are different from the people in Maryland, and, therefore, should be treated differently. There are currently several states that permit gay marriages, as well as several states that ban them. I am absolutely fine with both of those, because they were added to state Constitutions by votes of the people, and the people chose what they wanted. The people should have the say, and not the "almighty" government who sits above us trying to force everyone into one mold. We all simply won't fit into it.

So, therefore, to me, the Confederate flag symbolizes the fight for states' rights and the fight against "big government."

Note: Alright, I need to explain my position before anyone pigeon-holes me. My opinion is non-standard on either end of the debate. What I believe in is that the government, if it truly believes in "separation of church and state" (which is NOT in the Constitution, by the way) should have no business in marriages of any kind. The term "marriage" is a religious term at its core. If the government wants to be truly neutral on religious issues, I have a plan on how to fix this one. First, you simply abolish all current marriages. Then, you form "civil unions" (or whatever the PC term currently is). Then, you simply define what a "civil union" is, be it straight, gay, group, or whatever. That will be up to the people. (That is the key. The people decide on it.) Then, finally, you grandfather clause all previous marriages into the new "civil union" system. This way, even if the government allows same-sex civil unions, those with moral or religious issues will not be bothered by the term "marriage" being applied to a same-sex couple. They can simply rationalize it in their heads that these two are not really "married" in a way that is meaningful to them.

 

[WolfThomas]

A lot of people I guess see it as being racist. Which is kind of unfortunate. Now I'm Australian and not an expert, but the way I see it slavery =/= civil war.

Slavery as the biggest cause of disagreement between states and the largest contributor to secession. But it is the actual secession that caused the civil war. Secession is a huge step, when you're having a disagreement. If Tasmania wanted to leave Australia over something like logging and we invaded the shit out of them, the civil war wouldn't have been over logging, it would have been over them leaving.

During the civil war, the majority of people fought for the state and what they considered their home, including people such as Robert E Lee, rather than the concept of slavery. The Civil war was largely (but wasn't limited to) the south defending and the North invading. So in the mindset of the south, they were defending their home. Neither sides soldiers were "evil", they're just ordinary people swept up in a broader conflict and which many of them died.

So in a broad way of saying things, I feel the flag can and should represent pride in your state, reverence for the dead soldiers and an acknowledgment of history. But in turn can be manipulated to put forward racist agenda under the guise of the above mentioned things.\

Once again, anyone correct me if I'm wrong, it's not my country and I have only a glancing knowledge of the conflict.

 

[HK_01]

(The German flag has also scored me some unwanted controversy).

Why is the German flag so controversial? Unless you're refering to the Nazi Germany version rather than the present one, or the flags of the FRG and DRG.

It leads people to believe that I am somehow a Nazi even though having a German flag and having a NSRG or "Third Reich" flag are two very different things. Basically, you'd have to ask the people who call me a Nazi.

The worst thing is the perception of this flag:

You'll automatically be considered a Nazi, even in Germany itself, even though it has nothing to do with the Nazis. It was the flag of the German Empire and was not used by the Nazis.

On topic, I really don't know. I never really cared about the American civil war.

 

[Woodsey]

(The German flag has also scored me some unwanted controversy).

Why?

OT: Historical and racist.

I remember Raw William Johnson had something to say about this, but I can't find the video. Oh and the answer is "Historic Racism".

It was because that guy who posted a question had the flag spread out across his bedroom wall.

 

[Czargent Sane]

it could mean any of those things. subjective or multiple meaning symbols must be taken on a case by case basis. after all, look at the swastika.

 

[HTID Raver]

id like to think of it as a historical/ heritage thing


but alot of rascist people use it now, like the kkk and stuff

 

[Deathsong17]

I think it's a design on a sheet of fabric.

 

[Vetterthorir783]

I would like to say, I am from the south, I am not a racist, but I have some country in me. I see the flag as a symbol of heritage. Anyone who did serious research on the civil war would find that Slavery was the scapegoat for the civil war. 8 year-olds KNOW that slavery is what caused the American civil war... this is not the case. there were so many factors that led to the war, but to teach children, a simple concept was used: "Boys and girls, the people in the south, Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis and all the other confederates, wanted to keep slaves, and Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S Grant and all the Union people in the north, they wanted to abolish slavery...." Blah, Blah, Blah. You can't teach an 8 year-old about the political and economical disputes that caused the secession of the south.

The issue with the flag is the connotation. a bunch of racist redneck pricks decided to use it to symbolize their love for "hatin' black people", and ruined it for the rest of us Southerners who just take pride in our differences from people of northern U.S. descent.

Its plain historical heritage. Its was a symbol of the souths succession.

Here is one MAJOR misconception about the Civil War. The war was not fought JUST over slavery. The biggest reason for the war was about the federal government infringing on states rights (kinda whats going on now).

Put it this way.

If some guys up north told you that your only means of wealth was now illegal and without it you would go broke and not be able to provide for your families, wouldn't you fight to keep it? The south didn't have the means to just do it themselves. All the major industry and population was in the North. And don't forget that the North was just as guilty as well. They benefited from the south's slave labor.

Now I'm not saying Slavery was right, it was a horrible part of our history. But we grew from that and became better. Just that a bunch of people decided that its immediately racist and ran with it. Only ignorant people think that. I don't mean to insult those that think that but you need to read deeper into the history of the war.

Basically, This