Poll: Daniel Tosh threatens Woman with Gang Rape

[DudeistBelieve]

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fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

it's a real thing dude, it's not a fabrication, and there is sociological evidence to support it

i'm sorry if you can't grasp that.

also, nobody is banning rape jokes

nobody is banning anything

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

Why is everyone attacking the comedian and not the heckler?

 

[Khazoth]

Why is everyone attacking the comedian and not the heckler?

Because she has female parts.

 

[asinann]

Picture porky pig raping elmer fudd and tell me you didn't at least giggle.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

More people who think I want to censor comedy.
I don't, I'm just making my opinion known. Besides, HOW could I possibly censor Daniel Tosh? I'm just some guy on the internet. Just because my opinion is opposite doesn't mean that I'm actively trying to keep others from opposing me. I couldn't, even if I wanted to.
Also, it's just a freaking poll on the escapist. It means about as much as a joke on a Popsicle stick...

Ooo nice backpedal.

If you honestly meant it, then go back, re-read your orginal post, and especially that idiot poll you put on it and think about it. Cause if you didn't mean in you sure as hell seemed to say it and were rightfully brought to task for it.

This just "might just be an Escapist poll" but still doesn't excuse shoddy arguements.

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

The line above was from another poster, Iscariot6794. That I agree with. Tosh was an idiot and people should call him on it. But they should be calling him on the shitty way he handled tyhe heckler and not on his joke topic. My beef with some people in the thread is weather they mean it or not, they are endorsing censorship. I'm all for saying Tosh is a moron, but the line for me stops when you even want to think about saying "Rape is a taboo maybe he shouldn't joke about it"

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

Oh no! A comedian said something offensive...

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Naming an argument strategy doesn't automatically nullify the argument, sir.

Except a fallacy is an inherently false strategy.

So, uh, yeah it does.

Arguement is still there. Waiting to be answered.

I'll even go a step further and say it wasn't a straw man, since in the very link that was posted it was the general tone of "OMG!! DON'T LAUGH AT RAPE JOKES CAUSE RAPIST WILL HEAR IT AND THINK RAPE IZ OKAY!!!" which was what I was responding too.

But ya know, lets go right ahead naming argumentative tactics. I've named yours Pop-Eye. Therefore your response to this post is invalid. Also purple.

I pointed out that he didn't say anything about Tosh meaning it seriously. So... yeah your argument still fails. It got answered. It was attacking something that wasn't said.

And now you're doing the praying mantis! Ohhhh ladies and gentlemen this is quite rare!

And no, the idea behind the link is that the rapist hears the joke and thinks it's okay to rape because the joke from the casual bloke implies that everyone thinks it's okay to rape. Click, learn to click the links that people post.

 

[Khazoth]

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fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

it's a real thing dude, it's not a fabrication, and there is sociological evidence to support it

i'm sorry if you can't grasp that.

also, nobody is banning rape jokes

nobody is banning anything

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

Why is everyone attacking the comedian and not the heckler?

Because white knights believe if they defend a woman, even if she is wrong, she is obligated to pop out of their monitors and fuck them.

For whatever reason, there are many people who actually believe this and go on entire petty crusades.

If this post were a woman, i'd defend it on a forum and hope it would jump through my monitor. I love it that much.

 

[spartan231490]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

it's a real thing dude, it's not a fabrication, and there is sociological evidence to support it

i'm sorry if you can't grasp that.

also, nobody is banning rape jokes

nobody is banning anything

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

Whoopedy do. It exists. So does antimatter, that doesn't mean that antimatter that the US is made of antimatter.
Even in your wikipedia article(great source btw), it doesn't say that the US is a rape culture. It says: "many prominent examples of alleged rape culture have occurred there. Various commentators have also labeled the United States itself as a rape culture" about the US. Allegations and labels are not always true. In fact, they're more often false.

So, in order to use this "rape culture" argument, you have to somehow show that the US is a rape culture. Nothing about his joke normalizes or trivializes rape, anymore than jokes about murder and genocide normalize and trivialize murder and genocide. It's a joke. Specifically: it's dark humor, which by it's very existence, as an extension of satire, isn't meant to be taken seriously. Are you going to claim that "Animal Farm" trivializes and normalizes communism. Or that "1984" and "Fahrenheit 451" normalize and trivialize tyranny.

This is where, after having actually made a valid argument, it would make sense for me to be snide and dismissive, instead of just skipping over the actual argument and doing so, but that's not usually my style.

People are calling for him to lose his job, and trying to force him to make an apology that he doesn't support, all for the joke he was making. Further, a joke he made in response to someone aggressively verbally harassing him in a place where it is unacceptable for the audience to do anything but laugh or not laugh(as anything else distracts the entire audience). I bet there were at least a dozen people watching that performance who thought his original rape joke was unfunny and in bad taste. These people did the right thing, they kept their mouths shut, and got to feel superior to everyone laughing at such a crude and insensitive joke. She didn't, she stepped up, singling herself out, and made it personal, and then she whined when she got it back in spades. It's a rape joke, he wasn't raping a woman onstage, it's perfectly acceptable, as is responding to verbal abuse in kind.

As I've said before(and this is the last time because this whole censorship argument detracts from the overall point), it doesn't need to be banned to be censored. Societal pressure is usually more powerful than law, so societal pressure not to make a type of joke is more effective censorship than legal censorship.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Picture porky pig raping elmer fudd and tell me you didn't at least giggle.

Pictured and not even a grin to show for it.

Isn't Pepe Le Pew's whole shtick based around sexual harassment?

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Hecklers are the worst kind of douchebags and it's pretty common knowledge that if a performer doesn't nip that shit right in the bud it can ruin a whole set. And yeah sometimes the fastest way to do that is to say the meanest thing you can think of to get the audience to laugh at the heckler. (If you get a chance. Find some clips of Joe Rogan's heckler responses...it's pure weaponized comedy.)

Were his remarks in poor taste? Yes.
Do I agree that jokes about rape aren't particularly funny? Yes.
Do I feel bad because a heckling shithead got called on being a heckling shithead? Not at all.

 

[Khazoth]

Picture porky pig raping elmer fudd and tell me you didn't at least giggle.

Pictured and not even a grin to show for it.

Isn't Pepe Le Pew's whole shtick based around sexual harassment?

It is, but the people on this crusade are worthless, joyless people who cannot be pleased by anything unless it involves all races, creeds, and types coming together to share a hug. God they must hate half of the videos on this website.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

it's a real thing dude, it's not a fabrication, and there is sociological evidence to support it

i'm sorry if you can't grasp that.

also, nobody is banning rape jokes

nobody is banning anything

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

Why is everyone attacking the comedian and not the heckler?

Because white knights believe if they defend a woman, even if she is wrong, she is obligated to pop out of their monitors and fuck them.

For whatever reason, there are many people who actually believe this and go on entire petty crusades.

If this post were a woman, i'd defend it on a forum and hope it would jump through my monitor. I love it that much.

The post you covet so much is showing a wee-bit to much ankle.

A WHORE! A WHORE IS THE POST I SAY!

So what say ye?

 

[DudeistBelieve]

The idea of BRONIES defending the use of gang rape joke to shut up a woman who had a legit complaint is almost as shocking as when I found out that there were Nazi bronies...
Oh god the pain...

A legit complaint that she shouted out in the middle of a crowded theater that was filled with people who paid good money to see a show. She deserved what she got. I don't care if she's offended by rape jokes, because I get that. I don't particularly like them either, but I don't ruin other people's fun to voice that opinion.

And no, I'm not a "men's rights" activist. I recognize men have certain advantages in society, that much is true. But claiming rape is a hate crime against women completely ignores the men who have been victims of rape, which is to me a LOT more offensive than making rape jokes, because now you aren't just making light of it, you're pretending it doesn't exist, which is fucked up. So yea, most rapes happen to women, sure, but that doesn't invalidate the ones that happen to men, and they do happen more often than you would think.

But I am amused that you thought Bronies were somehow above offensive jokes. Like some children's cartoon somehow makes people transform into better people. That's a good one, that is.

Excuse the hell out of me for assuming that fans of a show that hammers in "friendship and understanding" like a jackhammer would also tend to believe in friendship and understanding.
Part of friendship and understanding isn't shutting people up with rape jokes.
I hate to say it, but it's like trying to take the piss out of a black guy with a lynching joke. You KNOW why you don't so it, and you KNOW why you shouldn't. If you do it anyway, then you're just a racist asshole. Same situation.

Actually Tosh seems like the kind of comic who WOULD take the piss out of a black guy with a lynching joke, so... I don't really see your point with that. He's offensive, that's his thing. He ain't the only one either. Are you going to crusade against every single comedian that makes jokes about rape? Or racist jokes since you also seem to have a problem with that? Because that includes... just about all of them. Do you hate comedy?

If he did something like THAT, he wouldn't be able to get booked to draw flies to horse crap.
And yes, I'd call him a racist asshole, and I'd make sure everyone knew that he was an asshole. I'd be on the campaign to get him fired. I'd help organize the boycott on comedy central until they stop employing a racist. Yea, I'd definitely go there without a second thought.
I'm not easy to discourage. I'm about as bull headed and stupid as you think I am about this.
But I straight up don't care. Screw Comedy, this is the real world.

Its funny that you mention that this is "the real world" because the real world is a worse place due to you living in it.

....I'm saving this line to use as ammo in the future.

 

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

The idea of BRONIES defending the use of gang rape joke to shut up a woman who had a legit complaint is almost as shocking as when I found out that there were Nazi bronies...
Oh god the pain...

A legit complaint that she shouted out in the middle of a crowded theater that was filled with people who paid good money to see a show. She deserved what she got. I don't care if she's offended by rape jokes, because I get that. I don't particularly like them either, but I don't ruin other people's fun to voice that opinion.

And no, I'm not a "men's rights" activist. I recognize men have certain advantages in society, that much is true. But claiming rape is a hate crime against women completely ignores the men who have been victims of rape, which is to me a LOT more offensive than making rape jokes, because now you aren't just making light of it, you're pretending it doesn't exist, which is fucked up. So yea, most rapes happen to women, sure, but that doesn't invalidate the ones that happen to men, and they do happen more often than you would think.

But I am amused that you thought Bronies were somehow above offensive jokes. Like some children's cartoon somehow makes people transform into better people. That's a good one, that is.

Excuse the hell out of me for assuming that fans of a show that hammers in "friendship and understanding" like a jackhammer would also tend to believe in friendship and understanding.
Part of friendship and understanding isn't shutting people up with rape jokes.
I hate to say it, but it's like trying to take the piss out of a black guy with a lynching joke. You KNOW why you don't so it, and you KNOW why you shouldn't. If you do it anyway, then you're just a racist asshole. Same situation.

Actually Tosh seems like the kind of comic who WOULD take the piss out of a black guy with a lynching joke, so... I don't really see your point with that. He's offensive, that's his thing. He ain't the only one either. Are you going to crusade against every single comedian that makes jokes about rape? Or racist jokes since you also seem to have a problem with that? Because that includes... just about all of them. Do you hate comedy?

If he did something like THAT, he wouldn't be able to get booked to draw flies to horse crap.
And yes, I'd call him a racist asshole, and I'd make sure everyone knew that he was an asshole. I'd be on the campaign to get him fired. I'd help organize the boycott on comedy central until they stop employing a racist. Yea, I'd definitely go there without a second thought.
I'm not easy to discourage. I'm about as bull headed and stupid as you think I am about this.
But I straight up don't care. Screw Comedy, this is the real world.

Its funny that you mention that this is "the real world" because the real world is a worse place due to you living in it.

LMAO.... ok this is rich. Hey SadakoMoose... do you know what the term hypocrite is? You my fine friend are a huge one. You replied to a post I amde complaining that you weren't all about censoring comics for their acts. And then you post this where you straight up admit it. The fact you'd do everything in your power to silence someone who disagree with, amkes you a censor.

This made me laugh quite a bit...

 

[Khazoth]

The post you covet so much is showing a wee-bit to much ankle.

A WHORE! A WHORE IS THE POST I SAY!

So what say ye?

You are obviously a man, because what you are saying is sexist, and all men are sexist, and no joke at the expense of someone else is funny. That post is a good, and honest woman and it is her choice whether or not to jump through my monitor or not.

 

[iamzombie]

Is she really free to? People were paying money to see Tosh's work not this woman interrupting his set.

Does this mean if I go to a play, I'm free to heckle the performers?

That's the worst part, she was also a paying "customer". If you pay money for something (Daniel Tosh' being a sarcastic prick, in this instance) and that is delivered to you, how do you complain about that?

If I had been in the audience, and this numb broad stood up to say how wrong rape was and Tosh HADN'T made a crack involving her and the topic, I'd have felt cheated. You went there to listen to Tosh make fun of people, events and things, and he did so. Now sit down and shut up.