Poll: Daniel Tosh threatens Woman with Gang Rape

[Darkmantle]

This is a ridiculous thread. How can you even talk about infringing on free speech? What kinds of jokes are unacceptable? Who is the authority on determining what is and is not appropriate? Honestly I am surprised at how few are defending their own right to free speech, and recognizing this as the first steps towards censorship.

This post is ridiculous. How can you seriously not understand that a mere social reaction doesn't infringe on free speech? How can you miss the complete lack of calls for laws against it?

how about the people trying to get him banned from the comedy network forever, does THAT infringe on free speech?

Well let's see... does it infringe on my free speech that I don't get to be on there? No? Then it doesn't infringe on his to be denied a platform to speak either.

Right, I disagree with you so let me start a petition to have you forever banned from the escapist.

In other words you concede that it's not a free speech issue and are resorting to just saying petty shit that doesn't have anything to do with free speech because you're upset?

I'm not upset, and I did not concede anything.

There is nothing stopping you from getting on the comedy network, you just need talent and a sense of humour. You are saying it's okay to demand he be taken off not because he lacks talent (the only requirement btw), but because he SAID something you didn't like. You are attacking him, taking his job away and kicking him off something he was previously on, and denying him opportunities, based only on his subject matter alone. I would say that's suppression of speech.

Well you said something I didn't like here, why shouldn't I try to have you kicked off. I merely framed the situation differently on a more personal level for you. Say I was a mod, and I just banned everyone who was not on my side, according to you, that's okay because I'm not stopping you from speaking, I'm stopping you from using this platform.

Maybe you should take a few breathes before you respond, you seem kind of upset.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Participating in threads like this depresses me to no end. so I'll just finish with a few quick points for the people who don't seem to really get it.

1) If you say something and it makes someone feel bad, you're the bad guy and you owe them an apology. If you demand that they go and not be offended by the things you say, it betrays your lack of compassion, and shows that you don't really understand communication. I'll demonstrate.

Elephant. You thought of an elephant, didn't you? Now stop. STOP THINKING ABOUT ELEPHANTS. What, are you an idiot? How hard is it to stop thinking about elephants?

When you say words, you put ideas into peoples heads that sometimes cannot control. If you trigger a person's trauma in doing so, you owe them an apology and should be more careful about that in the future. I don't understand how a truly moral person could think otherwise.

2. It's not a freedom of speech thing. If you think it is, stop. You're not helping. Nobody is saying he should be arrested. So many people get this wrong it baffles me.

Free speech is being able to speak your mind without fear of suffering physical harm or duress. It does NOT mean people can't hear what you say and decide that you're a pillock and should be made into a social pariah and lose all your friends and become a poster child for a terrible human being. It only means you can't be arrested for speaking your opinions, or prevented through force from speaking your opinions.

So go, run free. Be a total jerk. Have a ball. But don't start crying "1st amendment" when everyone starts demanding you give an apology. You can refuse. And you may become unpopular and scorned for it. But as long as you remain un-punched and un-arrested, the 1st amendment is working as intended.

3. You must never forget that rape jokes do not exist in a vacuum. Sexist feelings and tropes do not exist in a vacuum. "But I'm not sexist, and I hate rapists!" you may say. That's fine. But I will quote something from a very well-written piece I think all dudes should read:

To all those who don?t think the rape joke was a problem, or rape jokes are a problem.

I get it, you?re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You?ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You?re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something or connect you to doing something that, as far as you?re concerned, you?ve never done and would never condone.

And they?ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can?t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right?

So fine. If all those arguments aren?t going anything for you, let me tell you this. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don?t want to hurt anybody, and you don?t see the harm, and that it?s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Because this is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down-

6% of college age men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word ?rape? isn?t used in the description of the act.

6% of Penny Arcade?s target demographic will admit to actually being rapists when asked.

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That?s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, really cool guy, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can?t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It?s not like they announce themselves.

But, here?s the thing. It?s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn?t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist?s comrade.

And if that doesn?t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn?t make you want to throw up, if that doesn?t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore?

Well, maybe you aren?t as opposed to rapists as you claim.

Here is the link to the article. Sources are linked in the text on the site. [http://dbzer0.com/blog/feminists-dont-think-all-men-are-rapists-rapists-do]

There. I've said all I can, and I've nothing more. Now to go and play a single-player game and pretend for a moment that just maybe I've reached ONE person and made this community a little less disgusting.

fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

So a comedian, that clearly is a comedian. I mean he's labeled a comedian. You go to his Wikipedia article, it says COMEDIAN. He's advertised for the club as a COMEDIAN. He's on stage.

You're telling me the words coming out of the comedian's mouth are meant to be taken seriously?

No. That's absurd. This isn't some bloke in the bar making a casual joke, THIS IS A GUY THAT GETS PAID TO BE NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY! For fucks sake.

 

[spartan231490]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

 

[Darkmantle]

So to recap: when Daniel Tosh says a particular person should be gang-raped, that's him exercising his free speech. How dare anyone say his behavior was unacceptable? And when a person says "rape jokes aren't funny," that's heckling, and she needs to shut up and get out.

snip

No ones suggesting the heckler lose their job because they spoke up. False equivocation.

EDIT: to clarify, she was free to interrupt and tell him off, he was free to tell her to go get fucked.

 

[miketehmage]

I don't see a Yes option in the poll.

Maybe you don't like rape jokes and that's fine, I don't particularly like them either.

But what you have to understand is that everyone has a different line that they don't like comedians to cross, some people don't like cancer jokes because they have cancer, or a relative has it, some people don't like racial jokes.

I understand that if you were affected by rape then no, this is not funny in the slightest but here's the thing, dark humor is impossible without offending someone.

If you think you will be hurt by a joke told by an edgy comic, don't go see that comic. And if you do, then don't fucking shout out when he is on stage.

There are two acceptable things to do when at a comedy show:

1. Laugh

2. Don't laugh

This woman should have picked option 2. I very much doubt he'd have singled her out if she'd have stayed quiet.

Don't want to be at the brunt of an offensive joke? Don't heckle.

EDIT: Also I don't see a threat anywhere... Maybe it's in the articles you linked, as I didn't read them, but from what you actually quoted OP, there was no threat there. At all. So I'd respectfully request that you change the title of this thread, unless as I say, he actually did threaten her and it is in the articles which I haven't read.

 

[Iscariot6794]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

secondly, yeah, this is not a freedom of speech issue

freedom of speech means you can't be regulated by the law telling you what to say

if you want to function in society, and society thinks that you're being a jerk because you said something, and a fuckton of people are all saying "woah dude you're being a jerk", then for all intents and purposes, you are a jerk. it doesn't matter what you meant to do or whether you were being serious, you're being a jerk. it is not censorship, and if you think that is what censorship is, you really need to take a step back and do some research.

 

[him over there]

Participating in threads like this depresses me to no end. so I'll just finish with a few quick points for the people who don't seem to really get it.

1) If you say something and it makes someone feel bad, you're the bad guy and you owe them an apology. If you demand that they go and not be offended by the things you say, it betrays your lack of compassion, and shows that you don't really understand communication. I'll demonstrate.

Elephant. You thought of an elephant, didn't you? Now stop. STOP THINKING ABOUT ELEPHANTS. What, are you an idiot? How hard is it to stop thinking about elephants?

When you say words, you put ideas into peoples heads that sometimes cannot control. If you trigger a person's trauma in doing so, you owe them an apology and should be more careful about that in the future. I don't understand how a truly moral person could think otherwise.

2. It's not a freedom of speech thing. If you think it is, stop. You're not helping. Nobody is saying he should be arrested. So many people get this wrong it baffles me.

Free speech is being able to speak your mind without fear of suffering physical harm or duress. It does NOT mean people can't hear what you say and decide that you're a pillock and should be made into a social pariah and lose all your friends and become a poster child for a terrible human being. It only means you can't be arrested for speaking your opinions, or prevented through force from speaking your opinions.

So go, run free. Be a total jerk. Have a ball. But don't start crying "1st amendment" when everyone starts demanding you give an apology. You can refuse. And you may become unpopular and scorned for it. But as long as you remain un-punched and un-arrested, the 1st amendment is working as intended.

3. You must never forget that rape jokes do not exist in a vacuum. Sexist feelings and tropes do not exist in a vacuum. "But I'm not sexist, and I hate rapists!" you may say. That's fine. But I will quote something from a very well-written piece I think all dudes should read:

To all those who don?t think the rape joke was a problem, or rape jokes are a problem.

I get it, you?re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You?ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You?re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something or connect you to doing something that, as far as you?re concerned, you?ve never done and would never condone.

And they?ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can?t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right?

So fine. If all those arguments aren?t going anything for you, let me tell you this. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don?t want to hurt anybody, and you don?t see the harm, and that it?s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Because this is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down-

6% of college age men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word ?rape? isn?t used in the description of the act.

6% of Penny Arcade?s target demographic will admit to actually being rapists when asked.

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That?s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, really cool guy, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can?t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It?s not like they announce themselves.

But, here?s the thing. It?s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn?t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist?s comrade.

And if that doesn?t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn?t make you want to throw up, if that doesn?t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore?

Well, maybe you aren?t as opposed to rapists as you claim.

Here is the link to the article. Sources are linked in the text on the site. [http://dbzer0.com/blog/feminists-dont-think-all-men-are-rapists-rapists-do]

There. I've said all I can, and I've nothing more. Now to go and play a single-player game and pretend for a moment that just maybe I've reached ONE person and made this community a little less disgusting.

fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

So a comedian, that clearly is a comedian. I mean he's labeled a comedian. You go to his Wikipedia article, it says COMEDIAN. He's advertised for the club as a COMEDIAN. He's on stage.

You're telling me the words coming out of the comedian's mouth are meant to be taken seriously?

No. That's absurd. This isn't some bloke in the bar making a casual joke, THIS IS A GUY THAT GETS PAID TO BE NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY! For fucks sake.

His... absurd... point is that actual rapists can't tell who is joking and thinks everybody is a rapist. So of course nobody can ever tell a rape joke on the off chance that it remedies all doubt in a rapist's mind it isn't okay to rape people.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

So to recap: when Daniel Tosh says a particular person should be gang-raped, that's him exercising his free speech. How dare anyone say his behavior was unacceptable? And when a person says "rape jokes aren't funny," that's heckling, and she needs to shut up and get out.

snip

No ones suggesting the heckler lose their job because they spoke up. False equivocation.

EDIT: to clarify, she was free to interrupt and tell him off, he was free to tell her to go get fucked.

Is she really free to? People were paying money to see Tosh's work not this woman interrupting his set.

Does this mean if I go to a play, I'm free to heckle the performers?

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Participating in threads like this depresses me to no end. so I'll just finish with a few quick points for the people who don't seem to really get it.

1) If you say something and it makes someone feel bad, you're the bad guy and you owe them an apology. If you demand that they go and not be offended by the things you say, it betrays your lack of compassion, and shows that you don't really understand communication. I'll demonstrate.

Elephant. You thought of an elephant, didn't you? Now stop. STOP THINKING ABOUT ELEPHANTS. What, are you an idiot? How hard is it to stop thinking about elephants?

When you say words, you put ideas into peoples heads that sometimes cannot control. If you trigger a person's trauma in doing so, you owe them an apology and should be more careful about that in the future. I don't understand how a truly moral person could think otherwise.

2. It's not a freedom of speech thing. If you think it is, stop. You're not helping. Nobody is saying he should be arrested. So many people get this wrong it baffles me.

Free speech is being able to speak your mind without fear of suffering physical harm or duress. It does NOT mean people can't hear what you say and decide that you're a pillock and should be made into a social pariah and lose all your friends and become a poster child for a terrible human being. It only means you can't be arrested for speaking your opinions, or prevented through force from speaking your opinions.

So go, run free. Be a total jerk. Have a ball. But don't start crying "1st amendment" when everyone starts demanding you give an apology. You can refuse. And you may become unpopular and scorned for it. But as long as you remain un-punched and un-arrested, the 1st amendment is working as intended.

3. You must never forget that rape jokes do not exist in a vacuum. Sexist feelings and tropes do not exist in a vacuum. "But I'm not sexist, and I hate rapists!" you may say. That's fine. But I will quote something from a very well-written piece I think all dudes should read:

To all those who don?t think the rape joke was a problem, or rape jokes are a problem.

I get it, you?re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You?ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You?re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something or connect you to doing something that, as far as you?re concerned, you?ve never done and would never condone.

And they?ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can?t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right?

So fine. If all those arguments aren?t going anything for you, let me tell you this. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don?t want to hurt anybody, and you don?t see the harm, and that it?s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Because this is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down-

6% of college age men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word ?rape? isn?t used in the description of the act.

6% of Penny Arcade?s target demographic will admit to actually being rapists when asked.

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That?s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, really cool guy, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can?t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It?s not like they announce themselves.

But, here?s the thing. It?s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn?t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist?s comrade.

And if that doesn?t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn?t make you want to throw up, if that doesn?t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore?

Well, maybe you aren?t as opposed to rapists as you claim.

Here is the link to the article. Sources are linked in the text on the site. [http://dbzer0.com/blog/feminists-dont-think-all-men-are-rapists-rapists-do]

There. I've said all I can, and I've nothing more. Now to go and play a single-player game and pretend for a moment that just maybe I've reached ONE person and made this community a little less disgusting.

fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

So a comedian, that clearly is a comedian. I mean he's labeled a comedian. You go to his Wikipedia article, it says COMEDIAN. He's advertised for the club as a COMEDIAN. He's on stage.

You're telling me the words coming out of the comedian's mouth are meant to be taken seriously?

No. That's absurd. This isn't some bloke in the bar making a casual joke, THIS IS A GUY THAT GETS PAID TO BE NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY! For fucks sake.

Maybe you actually need to read that again because no one said it was to be taken as if he was being serious a bit it.

Strawman much?

Naming an argument strategy doesn't automatically nullify the argument, sir.

Boxer1: I dare say, sir! I believe you're about to deliver a devastating jab to me chin!
Boxer2: Bullocks! *sigh* Yes, yes I was, but now that you've labeled my volly you've nullified my desired to lob it.
Boxer1: It's quite all right, that is how these go. Care to try to guess the technic I plan to use?
Boxer2: Bolly! BOLLY I SAY!

 

[Michaluk]

So, you can't make jokes about rape because ...?

A heckler got told off. Good for Daniel for not backing off in the face of a holier than though, humorless heckler. I'm very disappointed that he issued an apology, however poor and insincere it was.

If you don't find something funny, fine. But if you don't find something funny and then go on a public crusade against people talking about it, or you're trying to censor people for other reasons, go screw yourself.

 

[Iscariot6794]

Naming an argument strategy doesn't automatically nullify the argument, sir.

Except a fallacy is an inherently false strategy.

So, uh, yeah it does.

 

[godofslack]

Comedy is a form of media, saying that someone should be banned from using rape jokes is laughable. It's the same as saying rape shouldn't be in movies, games or books. People get raped, yes, but it's no different than any other controversial thing that is brought up in discussion. Dark Comedy is a descendant of satire, a genre that's integral to ALL mature forms of media. To bar anything from any media is counter-productive, because media is a way of fostering knowledge and understanding of issues. Dark comedy is purposefully absurd just like the satire written 300 years ago.

 

[spartan231490]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

 

[Darkmantle]

This is a ridiculous thread. How can you even talk about infringing on free speech? What kinds of jokes are unacceptable? Who is the authority on determining what is and is not appropriate? Honestly I am surprised at how few are defending their own right to free speech, and recognizing this as the first steps towards censorship.

This post is ridiculous. How can you seriously not understand that a mere social reaction doesn't infringe on free speech? How can you miss the complete lack of calls for laws against it?

how about the people trying to get him banned from the comedy network forever, does THAT infringe on free speech?

Well let's see... does it infringe on my free speech that I don't get to be on there? No? Then it doesn't infringe on his to be denied a platform to speak either.

Right, I disagree with you so let me start a petition to have you forever banned from the escapist.

In other words you concede that it's not a free speech issue and are resorting to just saying petty shit that doesn't have anything to do with free speech because you're upset?

I'm not upset, and I did not concede anything.

Well then you should address it.

There is nothing stopping you from getting on the comedy network, you just need talent and a sense of humour. You are saying it's okay to demand he be taken off not because he lacks talent (the only requirement btw), but because he SAID something you didn't like. You are attacking him, taking his job away and kicking him off something he was previously on, and denying him opportunities, based only on his subject matter alone. I would say that's suppression of speech.

You'd be wrong that it's suppression of speech.

You should learn what free speech is. Free speech is not something you earn via talent. If you had to get it via talent then it isn't free speech, it is an extra opportunity beyond that. Free speech is what we all have. Also, learn how a business is run. They don't just check talent. And nope, the subject matter alone wasn't it.

Well you said something I didn't like here, why shouldn't I try to have you kicked off. I merely framed the situation differently on a more personal level for you. Say I was a mod, and I just banned everyone who was not on my side, according to you, that's okay because I'm not stopping you from speaking, I'm stopping you from using this platform.

You don't see to have actually thought about this. Think again. Is free speech the only issue to complain about? Your argument requires it to be. Which is why it is utterly idiotic.

Maybe you should take a few breathes before you respond, you seem kind of upset.

Not at all. Try harder to provoke maybe?

Sigh... If all you are going to do is say "nope you're wrong" and not provide any back-up or explanation, you are being intellectually dishonest. Either explain your side or give up. Stop just saying "no no no no" like a child please.

here I'll elaborate before you take me out of context and try to claim victory again.

"""You'd be wrong that it's suppression of speech.

You should learn what free speech is.""

What is free speech then, because apparently my definition and yours don't match up. Go ahead, explain.

""And nope, the subject matter alone wasn't it.""

well then what was it then? Explain will you.

""Is free speech the only issue to complain about? Your argument requires it to be. Which is why it is utterly idiotic.""

Why is it utterly idiotic, explain.

I'm beginning to think you don't have explanations for these at all, seems to be the only reason you wouldn't just say them.

 

[Iscariot6794]

snip
fucking finally someone who understands this has nothing to do with whether certain humor is okay or funny

this is not a fucking censorship issue

That's exactly what this is about(not censorship, I don't claim this is about censorship). The OP asks if rape jokes are ok to tell, and trying to crucify a man for telling a joke is about whether or not the joke is ok to tell. You can cloak it in whatever flowery language you want, and try to deflect and make it about offending people or about being sensitive to rape victims but it isn't. It's about trying to say that some things aren't ok to joke about.

Further, I'll make a comment about the censorship argument. Censorship doesn't just come from the government, social pressures constitute censorship that is usually stronger than government censorship. That's an extension of social norms being so powerful, and censorship is wrong no matter who perpetrates it, government or culture.

so, by your logic, if someone is following someone, harassing them, saying things that make them uncomfortable, and claims they're just joking, nothing should happen to them, because that would be censorship?

dude, it doesn't matter whether he's a comedian, and it has nothing to do with offending people.

by saying shit like that you are actively contributing to a rape culture, a culture that fosters and promotes and allows and endorses rape. you are not just excercising freedom of speech, you are literally putting more people in a position where they feel like it's okay to rape someone.

Logical fallacy of false analogy. He didn't follow her around or seek her out. She came to his show. She singled herself out by standing up and making a fuss about the joke. Also, I never said it had anything to do with him being a comedian, people who aren't comedians joke too, all the time.

No I'm not doing anything of the sort. Feel free to think that, but it's not the truth, and it has everything to do with him offending people. I never said it was ok to rape, i said it was ok to make jokes about rape. It's ok to make jokes about racism, slavery, handicaps, murder, thievery, and all manner of things that it's not ok to do. I 100% guarentee you have laughed at a joke about something that it is not ok to do. This is because no joke is off limits, no matter how heinous the subject matter.

By saying "shit like that" I am not "contributing to a culture" that accepts rape, I am endorsing a culture that says it's ok to joke, and talk, about rape, and that will never be anything but a good thing. I am not "putting more people in a position where they think it's ok to rape" either. Jokes about murder don't make people murderers, jokes about Hitler don't make people kill 12 million human beings, and jokes about rape don't make people rapists. That is so illogical I can't even put myself in a place where it makes sense. Rape is not some magical thing that breaks the rules of causality and guilt. Something that doesn't apply to murder and genocide, doesn't apply to rape either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture

it's a real thing dude, it's not a fabrication, and there is sociological evidence to support it

i'm sorry if you can't grasp that.

also, nobody is banning rape jokes

nobody is banning anything

tosh was being a dumbass in how he handled a heckler, and people are calling him on it

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Naming an argument strategy doesn't automatically nullify the argument, sir.

Except a fallacy is an inherently false strategy.

So, uh, yeah it does.

Arguement is still there. Waiting to be answered.

I'll even go a step further and say it wasn't a straw man, since in the very link that was posted it was the general tone of "OMG!! DON'T LAUGH AT RAPE JOKES CAUSE RAPIST WILL HEAR IT AND THINK RAPE IZ OKAY!!!" which was what I was responding too.

But ya know, lets go right ahead naming argumentative tactics. I've named yours Pop-Eye. Therefore your response to this post is invalid. Also purple.