I only shot the swat guys and the people crawling on the ground (to put them out of their misery). I refuse to fight someone unarmed while I have a gun.
also
HUBILUB said:
And also: WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO EVERYONE WHO LIKED TO RUN OVER PEDESTRIANS IN GTA!?
Weird. But it's fine, if it truly was me that wrote that comment I would've deserved a bashing. I hate it when people on my side have arguments I disagree with.
The part I quoted is key. Maybe you don't have an issue with this, but you are kidding yourself if you think there aren't going to be young kids playing this. It goes beyond the blood or gore and killing of people. This is a simulation which encourages you to gun down innocent civilians. There is no reason for content like this, and there is no heroism or altruism in a players motives as there may be in other games. It's callous, irresponsible, and a poor way to entertain yourself.
I said it's rated M for a reason, children SHOULDN'T be playing this game. It falls on parents to know what their children are playing and on retailers to actually card people for the games that they are purchasing/renting. Should the motion picture industry stop making R rated controversial films just because kids are definately going to watch it?
It's not anymore disturbing than in Bioshock when you first play through the game and you are harvesting the little sisters because it gives you more adam and you find out that it was an incredibly evil thing to be doing.
It's all about plot and story developement. The reason I want to play the game now is because a mission that is like that would have to have a pretty a interesting plot revolving around it in order for your character to get to that point, not because I want to shoot up civilians.
Then why do we bother making games with adult content at all? Or anything entertaining with an age limit?
Movies, games, cigarettes, alcohol. Kids see/do these things. They see the news, it can be pretty scary (not to mention graphic) sometimes.
OK, you have a good point there. My retaliation: Is this content, SPECIFICALLY a highly-realistic act of violence against innocent civilians- really necessary? Why do we need to enact this in a first-person fashion when a cutscene or non-playable cinematic would tell the story just as well? Is this doing any good, or just giving a cheap thrill to the player?
I understand that the immersion is (or should be) disturbing, which is contrary to what I've seen most of the players on this board say. So, where is the breakdown and why are people not being bothered by this?
Yep, killed everyone I could see. It's a game and I'm going to do shit I can't do in real life.
Why do we play games? To escape reality just for a second and to do something we could never dream of doing.
To those who get on the "morality" side of the issue, answer me this: Why should I care about something that does not exist? Technically, none of the people in that airport exist. I don't actually "kill" them when I shot them with my gun since they do not exist.
If I would have been in the same situation in real life I would have probably piss myself and run away or just plain shot the bad guys.
One thing that puzzles me is WHY did the undercover American NOT kill the other 4 people with him? They were massacring "people" in that airport and all he did was simply kill people along with the Russians. Why would he do that? Wouldn't it have been better for the CIA to simply kill the Russians before anything could have happened and avoid
Russia's invasion of the USA? The Russians pretty much OWNED the USA. There was really no reason they couldn't have simply ordered the undercover agent(AKA YOU) to kill the Russians and be done with it.
Wow. Infinity Ward just totally guaranteed that I won't be buying this game. Seriously, we don't need stuff like this in our world. I don't care how they justify it in the story, this is just unnecessary.
We do in fact need stuff like this in our world. Why? Because shit like this happens every fucking day. Putting players in a position to see the horror and the terror and to be the one that creates it will cause an internal conflict (cognitive dissonance). The whole point is not to desensitize, it is to "re"-sensitize. Tell me, when was the last time you actually felt bad about killing an in-game character?
Shit like this happens for real every day in our world. We can't shy away from it. I'm glad IW pushes the envelope though I think adding the option to skip it cheapens the blow. I want to feel that shock, that moment of realization that this is disturbing. Come at me from an angle I won't see it coming, don't ruin it by telling me what I'm about to see is disturbing.
I think a better scene would have been to have you in the shoes of a civilian caught in the massacre who ends up witnessing the whole thing and getting casually shot at the end. It would be less sensational and more impacting in my opinion, like the Execution or Nuke scene in Modern Warfare 1.
The part I quoted is key. Maybe you don't have an issue with this, but you are kidding yourself if you think there aren't going to be young kids playing this. It goes beyond the blood or gore and killing of people. This is a simulation which encourages you to gun down innocent civilians. There is no reason for content like this, and there is no heroism or altruism in a players motives as there may be in other games. It's callous, irresponsible, and a poor way to entertain yourself.
This scene in no way "encourages" you to kill innocent civilians. You can if YOU want but you aren't punished if you don't. Also there is a reason for this kind of content because it provides a lot more immersion and adds to the drama of the game.
The word for what you just described is desensitization. I'm amazed that this isn't that disturbing to you. Sure, gunning down hundreds of civilians in a highly realistic game. What could be disturbing about that?
So what if I'm desensitized to a bunch of pixels that are falling to the pixels underneath them because another pixel sent some fast moving pixels through them. If this were a video of real people in a real airport being shot by real terrorists I wouldn't say what I said, I do have the ability to distinguish life from art, and I hope most people do.
It's pretty insensitive to shove a section like this into the same for the sake of controversy when it can and most likely will strike a nerve with those whose friends and family have been the victim of terrorist attacks.
From what I understand there is the option to not play this mission.
Also, why wouldn't it be art? It is people creating a narrative through a fictional setting. If films, television, and advertising can be art why not video games? Games like this are incredibly linear so the story told is the exact one that the developers intended to tell.
I played through the campaign last night in a party of friends from school. also playing the campaign. Of the group I first reached the airport mission, but a friend was only about 2 minutes behind.
My first reaction was "What?...what the fuck are we doing? Connor wait until you see the next level"
His response to the level; "FUCKING SICK, TAKE IT YOU DAMN ROOSKIES". And with every friend after that it was pretty much the same, "God damn son, that's badass".
So yes, I played it, and yes, it was sweet, and yes it was ENTIRELY necessary to the game.
To be honest, it really wasn't disturbing, as I have the ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
Shit like this happens for real every day in our world. We can't shy away from it. I'm glad IW pushes the envelope though I think adding the option to skip it cheapens the blow. I want to feel that shock, that moment of realization that this is disturbing. Come at me from an angle I won't see it coming, don't ruin it by telling me what I'm about to see is disturbing.
You make a very good point of course, but I would question how many people are able to make that level of analysis and not simply "Lik hurtin du n00bz".
(I'm not bashing your point of view. I completely understand why you would feel that way, so please don't flame me)
I think that Infinity Ward, who have already established their ability to convey powerful moments in first-person gaming, could not possibly have gone overboard with the brutality of this scene.
I think everyone's probably heard of these by now, but
the part where you limp around and slowly bleed out from your injuries after a nuclear blast, with the resultant mushroom cloud dominating the sky
in COD4 was one of the most moving scenes I've ever seen in a "shooter". The only thing that I can think of that even really compares is when
the game fades to black with Alyx crying over the lifeless body of her father
in Half Life 2: Episode 2.
I think the entire point of this scene in Modern Warfare 2 was to demonstrate the sheer horror of events like this, so the more brutal the better. It's all to evoke shock, revulsion, and sadness in the player: a group of defenseless people rapidly converted to a pile of bloody bodies on the ground, people wandering around in a trance of confusion and disbelief, injured people frantically trying to crawl away, people pleading with their attackers for mercy just before being unceremoniously murdered. All of this makes a very emotionally moving scene. I know it got to me.
While most people slam this title as "just another shooter", I think it's another very clear example of Infinity Ward creating video games which, at key moments, ellicit emotional responses normally reserved for outlets more traditionall described as "art". Sure, most gamers will miss the point (as demonstrated by some of the posts on here), but isn't that the case with most art?
I didn't hear about the big moment in COD4 prior to playing it, and I'm really glad I didn't, because I was dumbstruck when it happened. I didn't watch any of the videos before getting this game, but I did hear about it. I wish I hadn't, because that only would have intensified the effect.
Haven't got the game. Probably won't play it when I do get it because it's sole purpose is to generate controversy.
If it was there to help make a plot point, a cut-scene would have sufficed. The fact you were given the option to not play it just fucking SCREAMS "look at us! we're being controversial!".
They could have made their point and have the plot move along in dozens of ways that didn't involve a CIA agent gunning down civilians and cops, yet they CHOSE to put it there obviously for media attention.
Well I'm not gonna bite. Doing something controversial to generate media attention is childish and pathetic. The game might be great, but fuck, there really wasn't much point in such a mission other then to spur a media frenzy.
As you haven't got the game you have no right to say the scene was pointless; it was actually an integral part of the story that explained every single event that occurred afterwards.
The part I quoted is key. Maybe you don't have an issue with this, but you are kidding yourself if you think there aren't going to be young kids playing this. It goes beyond the blood or gore and killing of people. This is a simulation which encourages you to gun down innocent civilians. There is no reason for content like this, and there is no heroism or altruism in a players motives as there may be in other games. It's callous, irresponsible, and a poor way to entertain yourself.
This scene in no way "encourages" you to kill innocent civilians. You can if YOU want but you aren't punished if you don't. Also there is a reason for this kind of content because it provides a lot more immersion and adds to the drama of the game.
I think this is a good time in the conversation here to point out that the CIA does black ops like this all the time and has done so (especially in Africa and the Middle East) since the 50s. IW is showing the things that our country does to "protect" itself (and its interests) and shows that we civilized people can be just as bad as the terrorists we war against.
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