Poll: Difficulty in games is changing.
- Thread starter Gotterdammerung
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First off, the bolded aspects are what is called "Fake Difficulty" [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty]. More distance between checkpoints and a limited number of attempts does not mean the gameplay itself is innately more difficult to execute, it just means that you are more penalized for screwing up. If you die, you go back further; if you die too often, you have to restart. These aspects are probably just a remnant from when games were only coin-op arcade machines; it made sense back then because you had to pay for each number of attempts, it created more profits for the owner of the machine.Gotterdammerung said:
With home consoles (or personal PCs) being the dominant format today, these limits make very little sense because the developper isn't making any money off the game after the initial sale. In fact, it's in their best interest for the player to complete the game so that they're able to move onto the developpers next product. As such, most games are simply more fair in their challenges; this could also be the reason games have been getting a bit shorter in the last decade or so. Fortunately, game developpers make the effort for generally high-quality experiences that allows for a great deal of replayability.
There still is one genre of games which still favours a high degree of fake difficulty (for those who enjoy that sort of thing), and it would be the MMORPG. While WoW's popularity (and accessibility) has killed some forms of fake difficulty (i.e.: experience loss upon death), it retains at least one type in the form of random drops; this trick serves no purpose other than to make players re-do the same content and keep playing the game... and paying their subscription to do so.
Another thing which makes games feel easier these days is a gentler difficulty curve, good tutorials are more common. The player isn't stonewalled with a challenge they have to look at outside the game to gain the insight needed to overcome it, but the games make the effort to incorporate teaching the player how to play... as they play the game. Of course, we've seen a few examples where it's been taken too far (usually when the game reminds a bit too often how to do basic things) but the general trend has been towards more accessibility. A good example of this is seen in the Super Mario series (the platforming games in particular, not the spin-offs), all of which are very accessible (and easy) at the start but still present a great deal of challenge towards their conclusion. You can almost say that each game is mostly made up of tutorials, teaching you how to use each element of the gameplay in a different way that you'll be using later on in the game.
Nevertheless, with the general market of games these days not being of the pay-to-play variety, it makes no sense for developpers to include large amounts of fake difficulty. Fair games sell better (more accessible), and the developpers gain no profits from games which artificially increase their length with unfair challenges. The net effect is that games FEEL easier, but it's just because they aren't cheating so much anymore and make the effort to have good tutorials.
I like having tons of checkpoints, but limited health supplies and no, none, nada health regen. checkpoints few and far between caused plenty of frustration when you die and have to start the whole level over again, especialy when you can see the next checkpoint but the hardest jumpmaze or you get ambushed before you get to it.
I personally prefer the difficulty of newer games. I play games to have fun and immerse myself in the game's world, and the frustration of dying over and over and losing a lot of progress when I die takes away from that in a fairly major way. But how about a compromise so both me and the insane people who actually enjoyed the difficulty of older games can have our way? Maybe games could, I dunno, have an optional difficulty setting where you either have limited lives or saves with few to no checkpoints, like the "hard core" mode in Dead Space 2.
I think developers have come to realise difficulty =/= challenge.
A game with cheating enemies, slow controls and broken hit detection makes for a hard game but it is not challenging in an enjoyable way. It is a frustration test getting killed by things you couldn't possibly avoid except by memorisation and luck. Being forced to play through long sections of a game OVER AND OVER is not challenging, it is POOR DESIGN. You aren't repeating the bits you fail on, you are repeating the tedious bits, it is blatant padding.
Example: Call of Duty's popular online modes are really really challenging, you have to know the game very well and be on the top of your game to compete, but it is not frustrating thanks to very good controls (largely down to the emphasis on 60fps framerate).
Though I'll agree rebounding health isn't good for a single-player game. It somewhat works in multiplayer as it allows for every encounter to be on a level playing field of health, but in single
A game with cheating enemies, slow controls and broken hit detection makes for a hard game but it is not challenging in an enjoyable way. It is a frustration test getting killed by things you couldn't possibly avoid except by memorisation and luck. Being forced to play through long sections of a game OVER AND OVER is not challenging, it is POOR DESIGN. You aren't repeating the bits you fail on, you are repeating the tedious bits, it is blatant padding.
Example: Call of Duty's popular online modes are really really challenging, you have to know the game very well and be on the top of your game to compete, but it is not frustrating thanks to very good controls (largely down to the emphasis on 60fps framerate).
Though I'll agree rebounding health isn't good for a single-player game. It somewhat works in multiplayer as it allows for every encounter to be on a level playing field of health, but in single
I find new games way too easy these days... oh wait I keep setting them to beginner mode, mystery solved!
OT: I do find games far too easy, although there was a point in MW2 where the player was supposed to wait for a computer (Windows 95, the slowest computer on the face of the earth) to copy over some files and I hate protection missions so I tried it a good 20ish times but in the end I just gave the hell up coz it was ridiculous.
OT: I do find games far too easy, although there was a point in MW2 where the player was supposed to wait for a computer (Windows 95, the slowest computer on the face of the earth) to copy over some files and I hate protection missions so I tried it a good 20ish times but in the end I just gave the hell up coz it was ridiculous.
I like both hard games and easy games depending on what mood im in.
Ill just say this to all you ppl who hate hard games, In all my long years of playing video games nothing could beat the feeling of playing my first shmup 2 years ago (blue wish resurrection) and beating it using a single credit.
Every gamer needs to climb their own little VG mountain http://shmuptheory.blogspot.com/2010/05/one-credit-completion.html
EDIT: I think a reason ppl hate hard games is because they dont like been told they suck
Ill just say this to all you ppl who hate hard games, In all my long years of playing video games nothing could beat the feeling of playing my first shmup 2 years ago (blue wish resurrection) and beating it using a single credit.
Every gamer needs to climb their own little VG mountain http://shmuptheory.blogspot.com/2010/05/one-credit-completion.html
EDIT: I think a reason ppl hate hard games is because they dont like been told they suck
I know the difficulty has been changed alot.
either you've got the games where you kill everything with a flick of a button for the newbs or games that frustartingly difficult for the people with hard-ons for hard modes.
I mean you either unlock easy or hard at the end of a game these days.
either you've got the games where you kill everything with a flick of a button for the newbs or games that frustartingly difficult for the people with hard-ons for hard modes.
I mean you either unlock easy or hard at the end of a game these days.
Old games weren't difficult. They just required you to memorize the patterns. Once you did that you can beat almost any game with a single life no problem.
New games can be just like old games if you desire them to be. Don't like checkpoints? Too many lives for you? Unlimited continues got your knickers in a bunch? Set your own rules to the games you play. There is nothing stopping you from punishing yourself for failing. Die 3 times in a level restart the level yourself. Die 9 times before the end well restart the whole game and delete it from your memory. With everything most games track you can give yourself extra lives by doing certain things. Get creative for that old school feel. But don't ask devs to take money out of their own pocket to appease you.
New games can be just like old games if you desire them to be. Don't like checkpoints? Too many lives for you? Unlimited continues got your knickers in a bunch? Set your own rules to the games you play. There is nothing stopping you from punishing yourself for failing. Die 3 times in a level restart the level yourself. Die 9 times before the end well restart the whole game and delete it from your memory. With everything most games track you can give yourself extra lives by doing certain things. Get creative for that old school feel. But don't ask devs to take money out of their own pocket to appease you.
I like it.Kahunaburger said:
I only play very old games on emulators because there's a save state function. Its a shame those ROMs are kind of, not exactly "allowed." However, that's the only way I'll play something with a lives system.
Save state: it removes the "punishing" in "punishing difficulty"
I am glad as glad can be that the old "lives" system is fading out of platformers. I'm all for difficulty, but being given a limited number of tries just makes it frustrating and irritating. Super Meat Boy was just a blast to play, I loved it, it had no lives system, and it was spine bendingly difficult at the same time.
Yeah, save states are what it's aboutChoppaduel said:
Always reminds me of this video on the particularly hard parts haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2OytHzZ72Y
I just don't have the hours and hours to waste on that stuff anymore, I just want to play the story and be entertained. I don't want to work any harder than I have to, I already have a job. Don't make the games I play another job, that got COMPLETELY burnt out of me by Wow.
Mainly because there are far more of them and the old don't care as much.MiracleOfSound said:But the new kids kill me far more than the old ones dobjj hero said:
Old games had far more variety than new games so its hard to say something conclusive.
Try comparing the difficulty of Civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28video_game%29
With the difficulty of Delta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlwgAzgK7ws
That comparison wouldn't make much sense, but both were pretty hard in their own ways.
Completing Delta was far more difficult than completing any of the CoD games, so in that way maybe Delta was harder. But people didn't expect to beat action games back then. Beating the game meant it was over so no fun in that. Now we don't expect games to last long, we expect to be able to complete them. It's a very different mindset that is partly caused by having a storyline in the game.
Try comparing the difficulty of Civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_%28video_game%29
With the difficulty of Delta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlwgAzgK7ws
That comparison wouldn't make much sense, but both were pretty hard in their own ways.
Completing Delta was far more difficult than completing any of the CoD games, so in that way maybe Delta was harder. But people didn't expect to beat action games back then. Beating the game meant it was over so no fun in that. Now we don't expect games to last long, we expect to be able to complete them. It's a very different mindset that is partly caused by having a storyline in the game.
I don't mind a lives system... but I think what Zelda:Ocarina of Time did was a far better system. Unlimited continues and lives, but it tracked your deaths. I suppose people might take some sort of masochistic enjoyment out of replaying levels over and over and over because they can't figure out some trap at the end of a half hour segment of game, but I would rather face a 5 min section, which gives me the same amount of challenge, but let's me actually work on what I'm having trouble with instead of getting stupidly good at level A because I just can't beat level B.
Yeah, I personally think that older games are harder, just by default. Seriously, if you played the Original Super Mario Bros, than played one of the ones for gamecube, which one will be harder?