Hahaha no. There is no reason to pick B other than a desire to hurt someone. Obviously people are going to get angry at the idea of someone ruining another person's life for the sake of avoiding two extra rounds. Why choose a win-lose situation when there is an obvious win-win?JoJo said:It's an interesting observation that a torrent of abuse has been coming from the A side, who have castigated B's as "dick heads", "morons", "idiots", "assholes", "cavemen", "Missing Links", or unable to think critically or are even what's wrong with humanity. On the other hand from the B side has been almost perfectly calm, with at the most one heated reply after repeated insults from an A.
A telling example of which side is truly in the right, perhaps?
The only reason your family members were ever in danger to begin with is because of people like you.blazearmoru said:You will be matched up with one of the many random people held captive, and behind the monitor you won't know who it is it. It may be a stranger, a friend, or even a family member.
Why exactly do they have difficulty reading? If you pick B every time, regardless of what the opponent does, your family can't be brought into it. Every time you pick A however you're risking the opponent defecting and a family member being brought into the game. It's pretty simple really.manic_depressive13 said:Hahaha no. There is no reason to pick B other than a desire to hurt someone. Obviously people are going to get angry at the idea of someone ruining another person's life for the sake of avoiding two extra rounds. Why choose a win-lose situation when there is an obvious win-win?
Also, the people who claim they would pick B for the sake of their families seem to have difficulty reading.
I do find it telling that most of them castigate the other side, without doing the maths themselves.JoJo said:It's an interesting observation that a torrent of abuse has been coming from the A side, who have castigated B's as "dick heads", "morons", "idiots", "assholes", "cavemen", "Missing Links", or unable to think critically or are even what's wrong with humanity. On the other hand from the B side has been almost perfectly calm, with at the most one heated reply after repeated insults from an A.
A telling example of which side is truly in the right, perhaps?
You just cut out the quote I showed as proof? He says you might be pitted against a friend or relative. It's quite clear that your family members may ALREADY be in the game.JoJo said:Why exactly do they have difficulty reading? If you pick B every time, regardless of what the opponent does, your family can't be brought into it. Every time you pick A however you're risking the opponent defecting and a family member being brought into the game. It's pretty simple really.
Emphasis mine. If you press B you risk blinding and crippling a family member who has already been forced to participate.blazearmoru said:B:A
3. If you chose option B whilst the person on the other side of the monitor chooses option A, this game ends, no more matching and as an added bonus, all of your friends and relatives currently in this game are released as well as all of you are given the promise of never being bothered by this game, again. This includes those not currently participating this game.
Be honest, and do the entire maths.Arakasi said:Yep I derped there.JoJo said:You have to flip three times if you select A before you freed, that means if we assume even numbers of A and B then your chances of escape are 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. Not great odds to be honest.Arakasi said:I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough to save myself, and the my opponent. I escaped unharmed.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game.
Take that however you will.
Anyhow, let me rexamine the situation as it now stands:
I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough help save myself and my opponent, and the my opponent. I flipped yes once, lucky enough to add 1 point to my opponent and my own freedom, the second time I flipped tails, saving my opponenent and his/her entire family.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, along with his opponent, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game, whilst condemning someone else to losing all their limbs and adding one of their family members to the game.
Again, take that as you will.
I did that back when it was essencially 50:50 and I didn't want to do the maths, I wanted to do a simulation.Loonyyy said:Be honest, and do the entire maths.Arakasi said:Yep I derped there.JoJo said:You have to flip three times if you select A before you freed, that means if we assume even numbers of A and B then your chances of escape are 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. Not great odds to be honest.Arakasi said:I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough to save myself, and the my opponent. I escaped unharmed.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game.
Take that however you will.
Anyhow, let me rexamine the situation as it now stands:
I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough help save myself and my opponent, and the my opponent. I flipped yes once, lucky enough to add 1 point to my opponent and my own freedom, the second time I flipped tails, saving my opponenent and his/her entire family.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, along with his opponent, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game, whilst condemning someone else to losing all their limbs and adding one of their family members to the game.
Again, take that as you will.
If you know logic tables, or even better, Karnaugh maps, it'll take you 2 minutes to scratch one out, and since it's roughly 50:50, the maths is easy.
Even better, look at my post where I did it for you.
A simulation gives you one result, not the most likely results, which is actually the indicator you're looking for. Regardless, I've churned out all the results. Seriously, it's simply. It's a 2varx1var Karnaugh map. And, twice you got a result which indicates injury to Jojo, and got the optimal result for yourself. That's actually rather unlikely. I'm inclined to think you made it up, but whatever, it's a white lie (Intended to offend Jojo I presume) pertinent to the real intellectual fraud going on here.Arakasi said:I did that back when it was essencially 50:50 and I didn't want to do the maths, I wanted to do a simulation.Loonyyy said:Be honest, and do the entire maths.Arakasi said:Yep I derped there.JoJo said:You have to flip three times if you select A before you freed, that means if we assume even numbers of A and B then your chances of escape are 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. Not great odds to be honest.Arakasi said:I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough to save myself, and the my opponent. I escaped unharmed.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game.
Take that however you will.
Anyhow, let me rexamine the situation as it now stands:
I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough help save myself and my opponent, and the my opponent. I flipped yes once, lucky enough to add 1 point to my opponent and my own freedom, the second time I flipped tails, saving my opponenent and his/her entire family.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, along with his opponent, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game, whilst condemning someone else to losing all their limbs and adding one of their family members to the game.
Again, take that as you will.
If you know logic tables, or even better, Karnaugh maps, it'll take you 2 minutes to scratch one out, and since it's roughly 50:50, the maths is easy.
Even better, look at my post where I did it for you.
There's no indication of how many people are in the game, or what the chances are of a family member being opposite you, so this is all going to be somewhat hypothetical: regardless, I'd imagine the chances of being opposite a family member are significantly lower than the 7/8 chance you have of being screwed if you chose A all three times (assuming equal odds for A & B), so B makes sense unless there is literally two people in the game: you and a family member. Even if it was just you, a family member and a stranger, the 1/2 odds of being paired up with a family member are still better than 7/8.manic_depressive13 said:You just cut out the quote I showed as proof? He says you might be pitted against a friend or relative. It's quite clear that your family members may ALREADY be in the game.JoJo said:Why exactly do they have difficulty reading? If you pick B every time, regardless of what the opponent does, your family can't be brought into it. Every time you pick A however you're risking the opponent defecting and a family member being brought into the game. It's pretty simple really.
Emphasis mine. If you press B you risk blinding and crippling a family member who has already been forced to participate.blazearmoru said:B:A
3. If you chose option B whilst the person on the other side of the monitor chooses option A, this game ends, no more matching and as an added bonus, all of your friends and relatives currently in this game are released as well as all of you are given the promise of never being bothered by this game, again. This includes those not currently participating this game.
If you press A and lose, you guarantee bringing a close friend/relative into the game, but there is NO guarantee that they're not already there.
Thank you for proving my point by the way. Comprehension. Hard.
Statistically that's true. However, when you apply the power of rationality you realise that there is no tangible benefit to picking B unless you suspect the other person intends to pick B, and there's no reason to suspect them of doing that because of the aforementioned lack of tangible benefit.JoJo said:There's no indication of how many people are in the game, or what the chances are of a family member being opposite you, so this is all going to be somewhat hypothetical: regardless, I'd imagine the chances of being opposite a family member are significantly lower than the 7/8 chance you have of being screwed if you chose A all three times (assuming equal odds for A & B), so B makes sense unless there is literally two people in the game: you and a family member. Even if it was just you, a family member and a stranger, the 1/2 odds of being paired up with a family member are still better than 7/8.
I will admit that this poll isn't necessarily that accurate, as in the "real" situation you wouldn't see others choices beforehand so perhaps more people would pick A believing everyone else would. On the other hand, perhaps the actual threat of terrible injury (as opposed to being a hypothetical thread on a gaming forum) would cause people to act less altruistically than they would claim here and pick B. There's no way to know unless someone actually ran it... any volunteers? ;-)manic_depressive13 said:Statistically that's true. However, when you apply the power of rationality you realise that there is no tangible benefit to picking B unless you suspect the other person intends to pick B, and there's no reason to suspect them of doing that because of the aforementioned lack of tangible benefit.JoJo said:There's no indication of how many people are in the game, or what the chances are of a family member being opposite you, so this is all going to be somewhat hypothetical: regardless, I'd imagine the chances of being opposite a family member are significantly lower than the 7/8 chance you have of being screwed if you chose A all three times (assuming equal odds for A & B), so B makes sense unless there is literally two people in the game: you and a family member. Even if it was just you, a family member and a stranger, the 1/2 odds of being paired up with a family member are still better than 7/8.
That is, not before seeing this poll and discovering the plethora of people who just happen to be completely mental.
Actually, if the statistical likelihoods were what I was looking for I would have done them. Alas, I was not looking for them.Loonyyy said:A simulation gives you one result, not the most likely results, which is actually the indicator you're looking for.Arakasi said:I did that back when it was essencially 50:50 and I didn't want to do the maths, I wanted to do a simulation.Loonyyy said:Be honest, and do the entire maths.Arakasi said:Yep I derped there.JoJo said:You have to flip three times if you select A before you freed, that means if we assume even numbers of A and B then your chances of escape are 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. Not great odds to be honest.Arakasi said:I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough to save myself, and the my opponent. I escaped unharmed.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game.
Take that however you will.
Anyhow, let me rexamine the situation as it now stands:
I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough help save myself and my opponent, and the my opponent. I flipped yes once, lucky enough to add 1 point to my opponent and my own freedom, the second time I flipped tails, saving my opponenent and his/her entire family.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, along with his opponent, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game, whilst condemning someone else to losing all their limbs and adding one of their family members to the game.
Again, take that as you will.
If you know logic tables, or even better, Karnaugh maps, it'll take you 2 minutes to scratch one out, and since it's roughly 50:50, the maths is easy.
Even better, look at my post where I did it for you.
Actually, if you'll kindly read this you will find out you're entirely wrong.Loonyyy said:Regardless, I've churned out all the results. Seriously, it's simply. It's a 2varx1var Karnaugh map. And, twice you got a result which indicates injury to Jojo, and got the optimal result for yourself. That's actually rather unlikely. I'm inclined to think you made it up, but whatever, it's a white lie (Intended to offend Jojo I presume) pertinent to the real intellectual fraud going on here.
How about you do the research before calling someone an intellectually dishonest liar eh?Arakasi said:Yep I derped there.JoJo said:You have to flip three times if you select A before you freed, that means if we assume even numbers of A and B then your chances of escape are 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/8. Not great odds to be honest.Arakasi said:I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough to save myself, and the my opponent. I escaped unharmed.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game.
Take that however you will.
Anyhow, let me rexamine the situation as it now stands:
I did a quick simulation based from the even numbers.
With me picking A I did a flip to see if I was lucky enough help save myself and my opponent, and the my opponent. I flipped yes once, lucky enough to add 1 point to my opponent and my own freedom, the second time I flipped tails, saving my opponenent and his/her entire family.
I then did a flip for JoJo.
First flip he lost a limb, along with his opponent, second flip he saved himself and his family from the game, whilst condemning someone else to losing all their limbs and adding one of their family members to the game.
Again, take that as you will.
I was fucking aware of that, I said that I wanted to do a simulation because I felt like it.Loonyyy said:A random simulation of probabilities is not proof of anything.
Not when I'm not writing a paper, or claiming these results to be indicative of a large sample.Loonyyy said:Indeed, when the sample size you chose is less than the total of the outcomes involved, it is rigorously intellectually dishonest.
You're repeating yourself, and I know all that. I did it in a word style to get the maximum effect against his morality, words are more immediately emotionally evocative than numebers.Loonyyy said:A simulation does not show anything, since these are probabalistic outcomes. You can simulate the action of a bridge under strain. You can't simulate the moment when a particle decays. Using the word simulation, you seem to think brings some sort of authority to what you've done. It doesn't. It's dishonest. It's a complete disregard for the study of probability, and statistics, and completely ignoring the point of the question. It's game theory. Game theory is an attempt at modelling human interactions with probability.
Yes, you mentioned that last time.Loonyyy said:For the record, I agree with you entirely in your decision-A is the best choice for all outcomes, with one proviso-everyone else must have the conviction to do the same.