Poll: Disappointment Happens, but Why does it have to happen to Games I wanted to Love? (Mass Effect

[nettechxiii]

When I finished playing Mass Effect (1) I felt a certain sadness that usually accompanies the end of a game I would like to play forever. I thought the overall experience was good (granted I know the MAKO area were a little dull). I grew accustom to the interface, the characters, and the story. The real wining element for me was the fairly clean and enjoyable Shooter/RPG hybrid feel it provided.

When I heard "Mass Effect 2" I almost hugged someone. I was going to get to go back into that world, with those characters, and enjoy that Shooter/RPG feel from the first installment. I latched onto news, clips, media... it all looked great. Better visuals, new and old characters, and a new plot. I was very excited for release day.

Now, I sit here, glad I didn't pre-order. My roommate, a big Bioware fan like myself (has KOTOR 1+2, Mass Effect, and just finished play-through #6 on Dragon Age: Origins), pre-ordered Mass Effect 2 for the Xbox360 and picked it up last night. I tried to avoid watching, because I wanted to have the experience to be new for me, but lets be honest, I glanced. And I was disturbed. Simplified skill trees, limited ammo for all the weapons (I was under the impression that only heavy weapons would have a grenade like ammo count), no hot-swapping weapon/ammo mods, no inventory screen while exploring, and CoD:MW(1+2) style regenerating health. I was stunned. Where was my Mass Effect (1)? Where were the RPG elements in the storm of Shooter "enhancements?"

With out raging too much... Why did they "dumb-down" the Mass Effect 1 formula to fit the Console players and the heavy shooter players? (by "dumb-down," I do not mean to imply that console players or heavy shooter players are less intelligent, merely that it was altered to be more similar to COD:MW, GoW, or Halo)

So here's my list of Changes:

Mass Effect 1:
-Hot swap a wide variety of armor and weapon mods in the field.
-Access inventory in the field to swap weapon loadouts and armor.
-Infinite ammo: don't worry about laying down cover/suppressing fire, just watch your heat
-Choose wisely, become a BAGF (G = Geth): Wide skill variation with lots of points to add, make the character you want
-Your shield recharges, your health doesn't: Be careful, watch your shield and take cover, medi-gel doesn't grow on trees (forces you to think twice about that sprint across the room)

Mass Effect 2:
-No inventory or mod-swap in the field: Found a good piece of armor or weapon? Want to use it? Wait till you can get back to the ship. Brought the wrong gear for the mission and only find out half-way through? Hope you don't mind reloading... way back there.
-Ammo: More tactical, sure... but did we go back in time? Why did we have "Mass accelerating weapons that could shave off just the molecules it needed for a round making ammo clips a thing of the past" to... well, the past. And now, I have to see if I have enough ammo to keep their heads down.
-Simple Skill Tree: What to choose? Does it really matter? Say bye-bye to the RPG elements, its more like being able to pick your perks in CoD:MW. No weapon/armor restrictions, just say good-bye to strategy when leveling. ("ah, I need higher shotgun damage, oh wait, if I use it for my heavy armor, I can equip this nice new set"). Also a simplified skill tree means that you better hope you play-style fits the tree.
-Recharging health and Shields: Yes, I know this is the trend these days, but why is that a good thing? And does it also have to look exactly like CoD:MW? I mean come on... screen goes red, blood splatter, and what I can only assume your eye-veins straining to make you blind?

Ok, I've said enough, I need to get more info anyway. Now I want to hear from you guys. Am I alone? Please, share with the class. I'd also like to get what system your playing on if possible.

Also, if at any time I came across as convinced that I'm right... I'm not, I'm hoping I'm wrong and misguided and someone will put forth a brilliant argument as to why I should buy it anyway, because I do want to.

Thanks guys (and gals)

 

[lacktheknack]

See, paying some attention to the hype has its benefits, they explained the rational and implementation of these decisions.

 

[Fappy]

I like most of the changes and I am an RPG fan above all else. It is a bit too simplified but the combat emulates more accurately how the lore describes combat now (if you read the books). Only mechanics that really disappointed me were the limited amount of powers you squad mates have and no weapon customization of any kind, i.e. the load out is to simple. Other than that from a gameplay standpoint it is amazing fun. All other aspects of the game are 10/10 for me so far and I am almost at the end.

Also: Don't complain until you've played it

 

[sgtshock]

A lot of the character building is simplified, but don't let that sway you. It's still Mass Effect; regenerating health doesn't make it Modern Warfare. It still has an epic storyline, in-depth and sometimes hilarious conversations, crazy sci-fi locales, and fun combat. I was dissapointed too when I saw that the RPG elements had been dumbed down, but after a few hours of play I had forgotten all about it.

 

[atled3]

your observations are based purely on what you saw.
don't knock it before you tried it.

 

[ygetoff]

"To fit the console players"?
It was out on console first...
I never really liked the RPG things in the first game, as the purely linear skill trees and incredibly limiting class choices got to me, not to mention the pathetic excuse for The Force that biotics were.
Seriously, why isn't there a KOTOR 3?

 

[nettechxiii]

Sorry guys, I guess I did get a little carried away, nostalgia is a powerful thing. And to those that reminded me that I haven't actually played it yet, you are absolutely right. And thats why I want your opinions and feeback. My main concern with buying in though is that, like most 16-24 year-olds, I don't have tons of excess cash to be buying games that may not be worth it for me. And while I have only seen the game in action, I have been grilling my roommate and others on the game mechanics.

Fappy and sgtshock, thanks for the feedback, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt the gap in RPG elements. I'm probably going to wait till I hear in from more people before I put my money where my mouth is, but either way I'd like to keep this thread going. I think getting the opinions straight from the people who play it is a much better way to look at a game. I am also very curious to see the overall reaction to an alteration like this.

To lacktheknack, I thought I had heard most of the hype, but if you heard about the changes I mentioned before release day I must have not been watching as closely as I had thought. Were there Dev-Diaries posted, could you link to some of this info, I would be very interested in taking a look.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I don't care about the simplified stats, I just love the story and characters to bits.

 

[squid5580]

I'm sorry but ME1 didn't have a very deep skill tree either. You pretty much had to decide at the beginning how you want your character and stick with that plan until the end.

 

[Spectrum_Prez]

You really have to approach Mass Effect 2 with an open mind. Forget everything you liked about Mass Effect 1 except for the story, because it probably won't be isn't in ME2. Forget everything you know about RPGs, 3rd Person shooters, and past Bioware titles, because ME2 isn't any one of those things. And forget any of your expectations, because the actual experience just won't fit.

I firmly believe that Bioware isn't a company that goes out and tries to make the greatest RPGs of all time; the fact that they have done so time and again is incidental. What they have really been trying to do is to perfect video games as a medium for storytelling, and the fact that Mass Effect 2 isn't a pure RPG shouldn't come as a surprise. It's not a "dumbed-down" RPG, it's unapologetically an RPG story with pure 3rd person shooting. Hybrids always get hate from both sides but I tend to love them and its true with this game.

There's no loot and no XP grinding, but ME2 still keeps the most essential part of RPGs, the freedom to choose how a story develops and to create a character with whom you can relate and connect. The fact that combat is skill, not stat, based barely affects this fact at all.

That said, ME2 is far from perfect. I've played around 20 hours so far and there are many things they got wrong. But overall, I have to say its one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played and definitely a landmark in the development of RPGs.

 

[jason27131]

The game is absolutely awesome. After you played it, you'll forget all about the "lack of rpg elements". Anyways, rpg means roleplaying. You're roleplaying as Sheppard, therefore there are RPG elements.

I hate when people forget the basic meaning of RPG (ROLE PLAYING GAME). Just because most rpg's include inventory and equipment and things like that doesn't mean all of them have to.

 

[Uszi]

---snip---

Bah, Bioware can't win.

Rewind back to ME1: most people who played the game bitched about the combat. The combat was boring, the combat was slow.

They also bitched about the inventory: the inventory is cumbersome, half the shit you pick up you immediately convert to omni-gel.

So they fixed it.

I... agree that they went a bit overboard. I really will miss weapon cool downs/over heating, which was more unique than the ammo based stuff going on now. But then I also understand the change: the cool down system was designed to slow combat down, and that's what happened. And if you want combat to be fast, exciting, balls to the wall, you don't place limits on how quickly they shell out their damage, or make them wait/switch weapons whenever they get a little too excited.

 

[nettechxiii]

To Spectrum_Prez, thank you for posting, your kind of insight is what I was hoping to find by creating this thread. Keep watching, because I think we could actually get a good discussion going here.

I guess I have been thinking of this as too much an expansion pack for Mass Effect (1). I mean that what I was hoping for, I looked at the "2" in Mass Effect 2 and saw it as just a continuation of the same game I enjoyed the first time around (Now with 50% faster elevators!). But I will take you suggestion into consideration, looking at Mass Effect 2 as a separate game in the same world.

To jason27131, I have to disagree with your wide definition of RPG. Although yes, an RPG does not need to fit the "Dungeons and Dragons" mold, your definition would allow Call of Duty and Halo to be considered RPG's under the idea that you are "Roleplaying" as Soap or Master Chief. In that sense almost all games are RPG's, it is that assumption a new persona that almost all games present the player. But your feelings that the lessened RPG elements are lost in Bioware's storytelling seem to be agreement with other posters so far.

 

[Internet Kraken]

-Your shield recharges, your health doesn't: Be careful, watch your shield and take cover, medi-gel doesn't grow on trees (forces you to think twice about that sprint across the room)

Really? Come on, med gel was incredibly common. The only time I ran out was when my idiot squad mates kept charging ahead of me during the Thorian battle. Other than that I never had to worry about running out. The regenerating health doesn't make the game any easier than before. Your still just as likely to be slaughtered if you make stupid decisions. Sorry, but this one bit just bothered me.

And like others have said, Mass Effect 2 is very different from Mass Effect. But I think the game is much better for it. Combat involves more tactics and is far more satisfying. The changes made haven't dumb downed the difficulty, at least for me. I'd say give the game another chance. Why don't you ask your roommate to let you try it for a bit? That should let you experience how much the game has changed.

 

[YuheJi]

When I discovered the changes, I was a little shocked too. But I think most of the changes are for the better. You should give the game a try.

 

[-Drifter-]

To answer your title, it wouldn't be a disappointment if you didn't want to like it.

 

[L3m0n_L1m3]

I like ME2 better, since it doesn't take over 9000 a ridiculous number of shots to kill enemies. True, the ammo part is annoying, but overall it's fairly nice. Not having to manage 150 different weapons, armors, mods, etc is great, IMO. But to each his own, I suppose.

 

[Bat Vader]

Watching someone play a game and playing the game is two different things. I thought Grand Theft Auto 3 looked boring when I saw a friend playing it. He let me play it and I loved it.

Rent a game and try it before making a judgment on it.