Poll: Disappointment Happens, but Why does it have to happen to Games I wanted to Love? (Mass Effect

[Freshman]

Well this is a deal breaker if what you said is true. the lack of RPG makes it a 3rd person space shooter, but i do have a few questions. is the ammo limited on all weapons, or will i at least always have my pistol to fall back on? Also, could you elaborate on the leveling?

 

[nick_knack]

To Spectrum_Prez, thank you for posting, your kind of insight is what I was hoping to find by creating this thread. Keep watching, because I think we could actually get a good discussion going here.

I guess I have been thinking of this as too much an expansion pack for Mass Effect (1). I mean that what I was hoping for, I looked at the "2" in Mass Effect 2 and saw it as just a continuation of the same game I enjoyed the first time around (Now with 50% faster elevators!). But I will take you suggestion into consideration, looking at Mass Effect 2 as a separate game in the same world.

To jason27131, I have to disagree with your wide definition of RPG. Although yes, an RPG does not need to fit the "Dungeons and Dragons" mold, your definition would allow Call of Duty and Halo to be considered RPG's under the idea that you are "Roleplaying" as Soap or Master Chief. In that sense almost all games are RPG's, it is that assumption a new persona that almost all games present the player. But your feelings that the lessened RPG elements are lost in Bioware's storytelling seem to be agreement with other posters so far.

<link=http://www.gametrailers.com/game/mass-effect-2/10875>Boom. Trust me. Get it.

 

[ElephantGuts]

I'm with you in being slightly disappointed with Mass Effect 2's dropping of several of its RPG elements, but I can assure you it is still a great game worth playing. It does still work. And though I don't like the new ammo system, because I liked ME1's originality in its overheating system in addition to the more obvious reasons, but I'm contented in that they at least explained the change in technology instead of just pretending like it was always that way.

 

[Actual]

-Simple Skill Tree

I've just finished playing through ME1 again and loved it. However I didn't like the simplicity of the skill tree in that, how the eff can it get any simpler!?

-Recharging health and Shields

Can you tell me more about the mechanic here? What's the point in recharging shields, and recharging health. Why not just have one or the other? What is the difference between taking damage to shields or health if they both recharge?

Put this together with the cardboard cut out retardo characters like Subject Zero, who're obviously designed to be so cool that 12 year old boys get wet in anticipation and now I'm worried about the game too.

 

[Srkkl]

I wouldn't really complain till you play it. The combat flows and its hard, but not too hard. I'm playing as Infiltrator and the different types of bullets (Ice, Disrupter) both have hot buttons so I don't have to pause to change to either, If you hold the X button you quickly change to the wepon you previously equipped so you can have your favorite wepons quick at hand. There are also hot buttons for squad powers. I honestly couldn't tell you my oppinion on the skill trees or anything because I'm so immersed in the story to care, my secound playthrough is going to be for stuff like that.

 

[Hlista]

for me personally i didnt like it yesterday but it is starting to grow on me. The only thing that i cannot get over is the fact that i cant walk around on the presidium in the citadel. that was my favorite place in mass effect 1. Also it seems to me that the game has become alot more claustrophobic and its not as open as it used to be.

 

[Shock and Awe]

While I am disappointed at the lack of customization in skills and the lack of hot swapping, I am glad they added the recharging shields and health, I hated it in ME1 when I got caught up stream without a paddle due to lack of Medi Gel. I am overjoyed though that they have so much referencing to the first game(or so I hear) thats the kind of stuff I love.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Joy, the failboys and the game snobs have arrived.

This game is incredibly well written, well balancd, has more challenging and nuanced and TACTICAL combat... It blows the original out of the water.

WAHH, WE MISS OUR SKILL TREE'S AND OUR INVENTORY.

 

[nettechxiii]

-Simple Skill Tree

I've just finished playing through ME1 again and loved it. However I didn't like the simplicity of the skill tree in that, how the eff can it get any simpler!?

-Recharging health and Shields

Can you tell me more about the mechanic here? What's the point in recharging shields, and recharging health. Why not just have one or the other? What is the difference between taking damage to shields or health if they both recharge?

Put this together with the cardboard cut out retardo characters like Subject Zero, who're obviously designed to be so cool that 12 year old boys get wet in anticipation and now I'm worried about the game too.

To Actual: The health/shields mechanic is remarkably similar to that of Halo 2-3 and Call of Duty:MW (1+2). Basically you get hit, they go down, but if you take cover or don't get hit for a while, they charge right back up. It also uses the same "Bloody vision" as CoD:MW(1+2), when your health gets lower, your screen has a blood red tinge and "veins", this effect dissipates when you hide. In ME1 your shields recharged this way, but if your shield broke and your heath got hit you would have to use medi-gel to repair that damage.
The skill tree, from what I've seen at lower levels, is 5-6 branches with 4 levels, and choices (Eg: heavy hitting ammo just for you, or incendiary ammo for your whole squad). Things like the individual weapon trees (shotgun, sniper, pistol, assault rifle) have been glommed into one.
As a note, Subject Zero isn't as bad as might think, Bioware has not left good characters out of this game.

If anyone who is playing could answer this question better for Actual, please do.

To Everyone: Thanks for posting, keep it up, and please post in a manner that encourages open discussion. I know I started out criticizing the changes, but I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[Kortney]

I don't give a shit in what some people are complaining about. I don't even see their complaints. Yes, there are more simplified skill trees, but so what? The game is fucking awesome! Just stop thinking it's a really detailed RPG (because it's not), and enjoy it.

 

[nettechxiii]

I stand corrected, nice call Xzi, I had forgotten about the healing mod. I understand the combat is faster/harder, but what about on easy? Is there still a challenge when your shield and heath recharge that quickly?

And I should clarify that I wasn't considering the number of power. I meant that rather than customizing a close-combat character by taking shotgun and (heavy) armor skill points so you could really design your character to that play-style (ME1) by simplifying the tree to the point I've seen, you end up having less "control" over your specific play-style. But I could be wrong about that.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

I stand corrected, nice call Xzi, I had forgotten about the healing mod. I understand the combat is faster/harder, but what about on easy? Is there still a challenge when your shield and heath recharge that quickly?

And I should clarify that I wasn't considering the number of power. I meant that rather than customizing a close-combat character by taking shotgun and (heavy) armor skill points so you could really design your character to that play-style (ME1) by simplifying the tree to the point I've seen, you end up having less "control" over your specific play-style. But I could be wrong about that.

It's not SUPPOSED to be a challenge on easy...

 

[NickCaligo42]

The box art should have tipped you off, this isn't a game for people who like down and dirty, meticulous role playing games. This is a game for people who wanted a shooter that helped them feel smart. Which is where the back-lash is coming from, people who didn't need their games watered down or made over-simple.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt the gap in RPG elements.

So, by "gap in RPG elements" you mean "lack of resemblance to this extremely slim set of features that define every token console RPG ever."

Pardon me if I seem rude, but are you serious? You're like all the Final Fantasy fanboys I've met who play Dungeons and Dragons and can't seem to process combat that doesn't take place between two lines of people politely exchanging blows, or all the folks I've seen pick up Exalted only for their brains to sputter out and die when they find out that they don't level up.

While I'll agree that it's a bit jarring that they've changed so many basic things about the game from one sequel to the next, I can't help but feel that the changes Bioware made are all for the best and fully support Bioware's efforts to give the game its own unique identity among their titles. I'm an avid RPG guy myself, but even I thought the inventory system was cumbersome and annoying and many things about it didn't seem to speak to the idea of being a SPECTER with a ton of resources at your disposal. Picking up armor for the aliens was mostly a matter of luck and felt like an arbitrary and intense annoyance, and it seemed especially odd to me that you had to buy equipment from your own supply bay and that Earth wouldn't issue humanity's greatest hope some better equipment. Long story short, I thought that the new setup was a lot more streamlined and appropriate to what Mass Effect is. If you did your research, you'd know it has less to do with "typical shooters" like Halo or Call of Duty and more to do with squad-based tactical games like SWAT 4 or Rainbow Six. The idea is that you have to do some research on a given situation in order to understand what equipment load-out would be best-suited to the job.

You know. Like in an RPG about squad-based tactics.

The addition of ammunition was another welcome change to me. I thought the molecular shaving thing was a really weak excuse not to have it, plus, a resource without limit isn't one that you'll be prone to allocating strategically. As it was my decision-making process was really simplistic, I could shoot blindly, I could snipe indefinitely, and I didn't feel all that engaged with the combat on a strategic level; it was like playing a bad shooter and a bad RPG all in one. The change to regen health I don't approve of (in fact, I NEVER approved of it in ANY game), but I can't help but think that if you'd had regen health in the first game and they took it away in favor of a more standard health bar in this one that you'd be complaining about that instead since going from infinite ammo to having limited ammo seemed to set you off.

As for skill trees, to that I have only one thing to say: are you seriously telling me that you enjoyed having to grind your way to more responsive/accurate aiming controls in spite of being a veteran of the Blitz and the Human race's finest soldier?

Just because there's less micromanagement and a few more limitations doesn't mean that a game is less of an RPG or a worse game. Bioware wasn't trying to insult your intelligence, they made design choices that they felt were more appropriate to this game, some in response to criticism about the first, but all aimed at making the second title more engaging. Frankly, I salute them. They could've phoned this one in the way they phoned in Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age, but they went out of their way to put some thought into the revised rules, and honestly? The appeal of the first was all in the dialogue system anyway, and all that is still there.

Get over yourself and get over your hate for your fellow gamers. Enjoy your friggin' game and quit whining that it's not the same as the first one, which was no masterpiece to begin with.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

The real problem is the concept to begin with.
It's a shooter with RPG elements advertised as an RPG.
RPG fans want it to be a hardcore revolutionary RPG featuring alot of new ideas, ME1 kinda did this but all in all it wasn't carried out as well as it could have been.
RPG fans complained about its obvious pitfalls as an RPG but Shooter fans wanted to play the game for it's epic story and Gears-esque action gameplay but got bogged down in all the RPG elements and wanted more action and less accounting.
Bioware were stuck in the middle here and did everything they could do to improve.
For the RPG fans, they made everything more detailed and improved upon the story but it still doesn't meet the standards of a great RPG.
For the Shooter fans, they made it more accessible by taking out alot of the equipment management, improving character tactics and AI and also making the fights quicker, to make the fighting appeal more to the Gears crowd they took away spray limitations and replaced it with ammo and made the health regenerate in battle for every RPG fan out there to play the game without being alienated due to it being faster paced and harder for those not used to such combat to survive through the harder modes.

 

[Omikron009]

What is this I don't even? Mass Effect 2 is an improvement in almost every conceivable way! The combat and item management for you and your squad was tedious as hell, and I don't think I'm exaggerating at all when I say that over the course of my 4 playthroughs of mass effect 1 (which I loved) I must have spent two hours looking at the inventory screen. The fact that you don't have to constantly babysit your party members and look after their gear is a blessing, and the more traditional shooter style of the combat in me2 works perfectly. The rpg elements are still there, and they're aren't dumbed down, just streamlined and made more efficient, which is a good way of explaining most of the changes.

 

[Gorrister]

I really need to get into this series.