Poll: Do you find strip clubs misogynistic?

[mecegirl]

The idea of a club itself is fine. What is misogynistic is how some patrons don't always respect the performer's boundaries. I've also heard stories of owners shortchanging the women that work there. Adding to that are social norms that create a world where there are more female strip clubs than male and how people treat performers as if they are lesser.

There is a significantly greater demand for female strippers than male strippers. Apparently. I mean if women got turn on by skimpy muscular men gyrating in their thongs to the same degree we enjoy scantily clad women. Trust me you'd see as many male strippers as female ones.

But women apparently aren't or apparently so coy about it that everyone assumes they aren't, so no chippendales for you ladies. You need to hoot and holler a little more and be free with those dollar bills.

That demand has more to do with social norms than anything biological. If women weren't expexted to repress sexual desires then you would see more male strip clubs. Women can barely have multiple sexual partners without some social shame you think such attitudes dont effect how women express sexual desire? Women in the west have just gotten used to expressing it diffrenty than men.

 

[Zen Bard]

As someone who frequented strip clubs as a young tyke, had friends (both male and female) who worked in some and even dated a dancer, I feel I can confidently weight in on this.

No, they are not inherently misogynistic (as the definition of that term means "hatred of women").

They do, however, objectify women. After all, the premise of those places is that the women are there solely for the entertainment and enjoyment of the male patrons.

Funny thing, though. I've heard some the dancers and waitresses both say they felt "empowered" by their jobs. They were essentially using their sexuality and seduction to manipulate men to part with their hard earned cash.

Sometimes it's tough to say who's really being exploited; the women who are being put on display or the dumb drunk men who are basically walking ATMs.

 

[CaitSeith]

Misogynistic means "to hate women". Pretty sure most of the audience go there for the complete opposite reason...

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I guess, but whatever, feel free to go/work there if you really want to.

 

[Buckets]

The girls who work there are not forced to do so, there are many other vocations to choose from which don't involve getting their clothes off, by all accounts it is good money especially with tips.

 

[MonsterCrit]

The idea of a club itself is fine. What is misogynistic is how some patrons don't always respect the performer's boundaries. I've also heard stories of owners shortchanging the women that work there. Adding to that are social norms that create a world where there are more female strip clubs than male and how people treat performers as if they are lesser.

There is a significantly greater demand for female strippers than male strippers. Apparently. I mean if women got turn on by skimpy muscular men gyrating in their thongs to the same degree we enjoy scantily clad women. Trust me you'd see as many male strippers as female ones.

But women apparently aren't or apparently so coy about it that everyone assumes they aren't, so no chippendales for you ladies. You need to hoot and holler a little more and be free with those dollar bills.

That demand has more to do with social norms than anything biological. If women weren't expexted to repress sexual desires then you would see more male strip clubs. Women can barely have multiple sexual partners without some social shame you think such attitudes dont effect how women express sexual desire? Women in the west have just gotten used to expressing it diffrenty than men.

And if you let society dictate this sort of stuff then you kinda deserve this. Besides, men are no less sexually repressed than women. Actually the joke is, it is probably because for women, it's literally attraction ona different level. It's not the same. WHat women are drawn to in men is not the same as what men are drawn to in women. WHile men may be drawn to big boobs I don't see many women being drawn to big baskets.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Misogynistic means "to hate women". Pretty sure most of the audience go there for the complete opposite reason...

I'm pretty sure men/women can hold phobic or bigoted views towards women/men, even if they find them attractive and are willing spend dosh to ogle at them.

all of the employees at a strip club, you know, want to work there.

That's kind of making a big assumption. Plenty of people talk about how they hate their jobs when they're positively mundane, I don't see why strip clubs would be better. Most people don't get jobs because they like they job, they get them because they need money. I'm pretty sure a lot of strippers mentally count down the hours left until they can just collect their pay and leave.

Knowing how shitty some people were to me, both customers and management, when I worked in retail I'm just thankful there wasn't any booze flowing.

However, without actually talking to a stripper I can't make this judgement. I imagine it depends on the place and the person. Some places are probably terrible and treat their dancers like meat on display, others are probably amazing and treat their dancers like super stars or royalty. I have no doubt that being an erotic dancer comes with a variety of bad apples giving you grief, but same thing can be said about most careers/jobs... it's not exclusive to that scene (though it might foster a particular variety of bad apples).

I agree with Zhukov and Guppy. For one, ew... drinking among a crowd of mutually aroused men just seems gross to me. Not how I would like to spend an evening. Also, without knowing things I can't possibly know without some thorough and possibly illegal information gathering, I wouldn't feel comfortable. How do I know they genuinely want to be there and like the attention, and aren't (as you say) counting the hours left while looking at me like as if I'm a pig ogling the feed bag.

And to weigh in on Male strip clubs, I've heard equals amount of issues from those places (and a similar amount of praise). This isn't really a misogynistic issue (at least not exclusively) as male dancers can be given just as much grief from female (and male) patrons (and possibly less attention when they sound off about it). It has more to do with objectifying people in general, which is something that isn't split evenly down the gender/sex divides.

Ultimately, I don't have an issue with the idea. But I don't see myself ever going to one. I'd respect the dancers and their decisions regardless.

 

[Amaror]

snip

Yeah, i guessed the naked people part.
As i said earlier i just don't think i would particullary enjoy it.
And i hadn't watched any movies about male strip clubs yet and even the female ones just tend to make a quick appearance.

 

[BarkBarker]

Nope, it doesn't involve hatred for women. In fact I'd be more inclined to say it fosters an appreciation of the female form in some ways, you aren't allowed to touch or you get das boot, it is a viewing experience. You don't treat an object with respect, there is a respect for the strippers at the club even if it is often faint, so no they aren't being objectified or being promoted as something to hate.

 

[Jadak]

Misogynistic means "to hate women". Pretty sure most of the audience go there for the complete opposite reason...

I'm pretty sure men/women can hold phobic or bigoted views towards women/men, even if they find them attractive and are willing spend dosh to ogle at them.

Which is just called being an asshole, not misogyny.

OP should have been worded differently. If the question is if strip clubs are demeaning, objectifying women, or other various potentially negative things, there's a discussion to be had.

But hateful towards women? Not so much. Maybe some people, some of the time, but certainly not as some underlying truth to the nature of strip clubs.

 

[Lightknight]

Misogynistic means "to hate women". Pretty sure most of the audience go there for the complete opposite reason...

I'm pretty sure men/women can hold phobic or bigoted views towards women/men, even if they find them attractive and are willing spend dosh to ogle at them.

Which is just called being an asshole, not misogyny.

OP should have been worded differently. If the question is if strip clubs are demeaning, objectifying women, or other various potentially negative things, there's a discussion to be had.

But hateful towards women? Not so much. Maybe some people, some of the time, but certainly not as some underlying truth to the nature of strip clubs.

Do you think linguistic drift thanks to common use is beginning to transform the term misogyny to include areas of bigotry and stereotyping towards women? It seems to be so commonly misappropriated for that use as to almost now include the meaning as happens with various other terms.

 

[Jadak]

Do you think linguistic drift thanks to common use is beginning to transform the term misogyny to include areas of bigotry and stereotyping towards women? It seems to be so commonly misappropriated for that use as to almost now include the meaning as happens with various other terms.

Yes, but things only drift if you let them. I'm not letting go of it just yet.

 

[thewatergamer]

One misogyny has almost completely lost it's meaning to me just like sexism because a bunch of whiny women pushed me to that point, but anyway on topic, no strip clubs are not inherently "sexist", the women working there are supposed to be working by choice, however I will say that there are certainly cases where they could be considered "sexist" so is it inherently sexist? No, can they be sexist? yes, I don't know alot about them since I've never seen the point of going to one, if I want to watch sexy women that I can't have sex with I'll go to the internet where I can get it for free

 

[visiblenoise]

Well, would you even want to hang out with anyone who would feel insulted because you stepped into a strip club?

 

[rcs619]

Pretty basic question: do you find strip clubs misogynistic? And I'm referring to clubs featuring women, not men.


The question came into my head a few months ago, when a few co-workers were talking about taking me to a strip club for my 21st. My initial, and current thought, is that I really wouldn't like being in one, but I really don't know why. One reason for that though is the thought that it would be offensive to the female population in general as such places actively objectify women. I'm still kinda iffy on that thought as I've always been a fan of the opinion that it's OK to (and this is going to be a poor way to describe it but I really want to get back to Just Cause 3 and I can't think of a better way to describe it) view women purely for their attractiveness as long as you also realize that they're still human being and deserve respect because of that. Despite this, I still feel like I'd be insult a hell of a lot of people if I ever stepped foot in a strip club.

Also not helping this thought is the fact that I've never meet a women who has negative thoughts toward strip clubs. Neutral thoughts, of course, but never one who considers a strip club to be a negative place purely because of the "entertainment" there.

Anyway this post is longer that I like, so, TL;DR: are strip clubs inherently misogynistic?

I don't think there's anything wrong with sex entertainment and/or sex work. Whether that's strip clubs, porn or even prostitution. Basically, for me, it comes down to three factors:
> Are the employees doing this voluntarily?
> Are they getting a fair wage?
> Are there standardized safeguards in place to ensure employee safety?

If all of those conditions are met (and I realize that some strip clubs, especially the lower-tier ones, do not regularly fulfill all of these), then it's fine in my book. It's human nature to be physically attracted to other humans, and as long as everyone is being safe and being compensated for their time, I don't see any issue with it.

Whether or not you are personally comfortable with it though, that's down to you. I support strip clubs, and even the idea of legalized prostitution, but I'd probably never really be comfortable using either of those services myself. Just not really my kind of thing.

 

[Cidward]

I'm a straight woman who's been to a few strip clubs (with women dancers, though I have caught a male dance show in Vegas). Some with my boyfriend, some with a mixed group of people I worked with (it had a lunch buffet), and again to the same place with the buffet with just a couple of women I worked with, because by then we'd all been there a few times and found it to be an amusing place to go have a drink.

It was a lot less weird - and frankly a lot less exciting - than I thought it would be (most of these places are just bars that also have naked women dancing), but that comes with some caveats. Mostly that I was always with a group I felt comfortable with, which makes a big difference. Also, while a lot of the women who get into this come from really f'd up situations and are taken advantage of, there are as many or more that are just normal people doing a job that some of them enjoy as much as anyone can enjoy their job. Not because they love the guys they dance for (they don't, even if they're good at pretending), but because if you're at a vaguely legit club with management and security that looks out for you, you can make VERY good money. The cliche about putting yourself through law school is kind of a joke, but there are cases where it and similar things are true. You can make a lot more cash doing it than you can waiting tables or bar tending, if you need something part-time to fit around weird hours and taking your clothes off doesn't bother you.

There's nothing misogynistic in and of itself about a strip club. Some of the men who run those places ARE the worst kind of creeps, however, and it's not like you can tell good ones from bad just by looking at the outside of a place. Like any bar, leave if you don't feel comfortable. In the end, I guess they bother me much less than restaurants like Hooters do. There's no pretense or attempt to go 'tee-hee people don't come here to look at boobs.' Sure they do, and that's OK, just treat the dancers with respect and remember they're entertainers, not your imaginary girlfriend. It's all about respect, and misogyny is ultimately about a lack of respect far more than it is about what someone's wearing.

 

[CeeBod]

I was taken to a strip club at the end of the leaving do my colleagues threw for me before I went out to work in Saudi Arabia, and it was an absolutely awesome night out. Almost half of my colleagues were women, and they came to the strip club too - it was an experience that most of them hadn't had before, and going along on a work leaving do gave them an excuse to satisfy their curiosity about it. The mixed nature of our group meant that bouncers liked us, the dancers liked us and the barstaff liked us - so they bent over backwards to give us a good night - in the case of the dancers, I mean that literally!

I also was asked a few years ago to become part owner of a strip-club in Blackpool which is mostly a male strip club for hen parties. They also hire female strippers but they're about 80% male stripper to 20% female. It was a business that seemed like a license to print money, but groups of women in Blackpool on Hen nights can be pretty damn scary so I turned the offer down! (I also didn't have enough money, but that's a more boring reason!)

So from my experiences, I have to say I really don't understand where this "OMG it's mysogynistic/horribly seedy" thing comes from. Misoggybiscuit is as has been said before, a pretty meaningless word these days, and as for being seedy - you're obviously not going to the right strip clubs then! p

 

[C14N]

Yeah it kind of is but I don't really think it's that harmful. It's not the reason I would have a problem going to one though. I was in one once and it's just kind of boring. Thanks to the internet, seeing some boobs isn't that exciting anymore and (assuming it's legal), it's all just a big cocktease. It's also just kind of generally uncomfortable hanging out with a bunch of guys and staring at naked women. Honestly, I'd probably be less uncomfortable in a bordello because at least you get to do something there.

 

[Rastrelly]

One profession treats men favourable by offering them jobs because they assume men are more suited to it than women. The other one offers certain women jobs because tits and their willingness to get undressed.

Heh, in fact there are two factors in here:
1) Most miners get into miner job basically the same way strippers get into theirs - 'because it came down to it somehow'.
2) Miners are mostly men, because they usually have larger muscle and, thanks to their penises, are considered more expendable, and there is enough men who are ready to go undergound to risk their lives in order to _________ (your explanation here). Women have boobs, and men usually love looking at boobs, and there is enough women who are ready to get paid for showing boobs to those men because _____________________ (your explanation here). Strippers are treated by society as someone of lower sort because people think sex is sacred. Football pros, singers, dancers, poets, painters - they all are the same as strippers. They do not produce any proper valuable things, unlike miners, but they are much better paid, because people like them more, and their activities are much more visible and obvious, and entertaining. Strippers do the same thing, but because sex is involved, it's considered dirty, and, thus, often shunned, associated with crime, etc. But whether those accusations are true or not, stripper profession is absolutely and entirely equal to miner profession, 'cause both professions have reasons to be more represented by one sex, and less - by another.