Poll: Do you find strip clubs misogynistic?

[Dazzle Novak]

What the hell is this "no touching" policy? Is that a big city thing or something? I live in the middle-of-nowhere, asscrack of Iowa (think about that), but the strippers in the club near me are all 20-somethings who'll rub her ass in a customer's face simply because he/she sat by the stage. Private dances involve slapping asses like bongos, motorboating tits, and all sorts of tactile wonderment. Benefits of living outside city limits near a university, I guess?

Also, I'm surprised how many girls treat the strip club like a regular Friday night. Not saying women can't participate in sexism-toward-women, but pretty decent gender parity stops the whole affair from dipping entirely into sweaty, pathetic, testosterone-addled skeeviness territory.

Honestly, strip clubs are probably sexist in a general sense, but unless you see Eastern European bouncers herding the dancers into a van, I don't think the girls anymore objectified than your average person living check-to-check.

 

[Nailzzz]

I have known a few strippers as friends and romantic interests. If anything the whole affair seems to come off as pretty misandrist from the way the women seemed to discuss their clients. Now granted, I have never been inside a strip club itself so my point of view comes strictly from the dancers themselves. They just viewed the men there as pathetic atm's. I'm a bit of a romantic myself, so the mercenary way these women tended to view sexuality pretty much doomed any attempts at relationships. Since then I have instituted a no sex worker rule for myself when it comes to relationships. But I still have friends who work in that industry and have managed to make it work for them.

 

[Yopaz]

Heh, in fact there are two factors in here:
1) Most miners get into miner job basically the same way strippers get into theirs - 'because it came down to it somehow'.

Sure. Why is it even remotely connected to misandry?

2) Miners are mostly men, because they usually have larger muscle[/quote]

Sure, that's a great reason why it works like this. Why is it even remotely connected to misandry? You have given me a perfectly good reason why misandry isn't remotely related to the hiring of miners an I agree. Can you give me a similarly good reson for why it should be considered misandrist in the same bane as strip clubs are considered misogynist?

I went into the reasons why some may consider strip clubs misogynistic. You haven't given a single reason why mining is misandrist. Why don't you just admit you made a silly statement for comedy that you didn't mean to be taken seriously, because you have now convinced me that there is no inherent sexism in mining.

 

[Yopaz]

...

OK, I was sure I would not have to ask, but it seems I actually have to: you DO know what sarcasm is, do you?

A form of humour where your tone actually matters when it comes to conveying whether or not you're being sarcastic? No, I have never heard of it (if I had said that out loud to you, you would catch that I was being sarcastic). I don't know where you were being "sarcastic" the fact you defended your original post in your second post makes me think it was in the second post. Otherwise you would have just stated so in your second post, right?

It's clear to me that you realize that you don't really have an answer at this point.

Edit: Also going "Durrrrrrrr, don't you understand sarcasm?" in a text conversation. You do strike me as a true genius (again, sarcasm).

 

[Rastrelly]

...

OK, I was sure I would not have to ask, but it seems I actually have to: you DO know what sarcasm is, do you?

A form of humour where your tone actually matters when it comes to conveying whether or not you're being sarcastic? No, I have never heard of it (if I had said that out loud to you, you would catch that I was being sarcastic). I don't know where you were being "sarcastic" the fact you defended your original post in your second post makes me think it was in the second post. Otherwise you would have just stated so in your second post, right?

It's clear to me that you realize that you don't really have an answer at this point.

OK, I'll explain: in my first post I said I don't think strip clubs are misogynistic. In my second post I explained that miners are not subjects of misoandry. In my third post i asked if you know what sarcasm is. And in this post I add you to my ignore list.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

What the hell is this "no touching" policy? Is that a big city thing or something? I live in the middle-of-nowhere, asscrack of Iowa (think about that), but the strippers in the club near me are all 20-somethings who'll rub her ass in a customer's face simply because he/she sat by the stage. Private dances involve slapping asses like bongos, motorboating tits, and all sorts of tactile wonderment. Benefits of living outside city limits near a university, I guess?

Also, I'm surprised how many girls treat the strip club like a regular Friday night. Not saying women can't participate in sexism-toward-women, but pretty decent gender parity stops the whole affair from dipping entirely into sweaty, pathetic, testosterone-addled skeeviness territory.

Honestly, strip clubs are probably sexist in a general sense, but unless you see Eastern European bouncers herding the dancers into a van, I don't think the girls anymore objectified than your average person living check-to-check.

The one I went to had a strict policy of not allowing the client to touch the dancer, but the dancer can touch the client. And the bouncers were always very, very quick to pounce on anyone who was not playing by the rules and throw them out the same way Uncle Phil did Jazz.

 

[9tailedflame]

all of the employees at a strip club, you know, want to work there.

That's kind of making a big assumption. Plenty of people talk about how they hate their jobs when they're positively mundane, I don't see why strip clubs would be better. Most people don't get jobs because they like they job, they get them because they need money. I'm pretty sure a lot of strippers mentally count down the hours left until they can just collect their pay and leave.

Well they have the choice anyway. Not everyone is going to find the perfect job they look forward to going to, barely anyone does. They can leave if they want and find another job, they're not being forced to do anything.

 

[Yopaz]

...

OK, I was sure I would not have to ask, but it seems I actually have to: you DO know what sarcasm is, do you?

A form of humour where your tone actually matters when it comes to conveying whether or not you're being sarcastic? No, I have never heard of it (if I had said that out loud to you, you would catch that I was being sarcastic). I don't know where you were being "sarcastic" the fact you defended your original post in your second post makes me think it was in the second post. Otherwise you would have just stated so in your second post, right?

It's clear to me that you realize that you don't really have an answer at this point.

OK, I'll explain: in my first post I said I don't think strip clubs are misogynistic. In my second post I explained that miners are not subjects of misoandry. In my third post i asked if you know what sarcasm is. And in this post I add you to my ignore list.

I agree with all of your points, I just don't think your analogy was good. I may have done a poor job of expressing myself and I could probably do with being less condescending. You clearly didn't want to explain it though so I don't see a reason to feel bad about it.

Edit: Also counting to three... seems to be hard for you.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

By this point the term misogyny completely lost its meaning anyway, so just about everything can be considered misogynous.

Wasn't the meaning purely subjective anyway? Like it had very little meaning to begin with.

 

[Thyunda]

By this point the term misogyny completely lost its meaning anyway, so just about everything can be considered misogynous.

Yeah, and going "HURR DURR everything is misogynistic" is the best way of combating any criticism and make you look like a well educated, tolerant person to hold a mature discussion with.

But that's the truth of the matter, the term is overused, making it meaningless.

Well, no. That's not how words work. See, sometimes you can have an incorrect label, and then it would be meaningless, but unless the label is incorrect, it's not meaningless no matter how often it's used. That's like saying "What do you mean by 'weather' anyway? You use that term when it's sunny or when it's cloudy and honestly I hear it so much it's lost all meaning."

I don't really see your comparison besides weather being something completely objective while the other extremely subjective I can't really find how can 'weather' be meant in different ways.

My problem is that the second you include something like sexist jokes as 'violence against women', terms about sexism lose meanings as there will always be some people who can interpret a thing as mysogonous.

What if you define sexist jokes as 'attacks on women' rather than the word 'violence'?

 

[springheeljack]

They certainly can be especially in places that are more skeevy and run down. Anyplace like that is bound to attract real creepy and entitled men that expect more than just a lap dance. I'm not saying that even the majority of people who go there are like that but they are bound to be some. Club owners can also be under the impression that they are guaranteed sex with the strippers as well.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Kind of yeah, I guess. I mean, you're there only to oogle at ladies' knockers and cans, and only that.

And also, I'm sure there's plenty of ladies that work there of their own free will, because they like it, they like the money, or they want to put themselves through college. But then I can't help but feel like there's also a good bunch that are forced into this vocation against their will for fear of violence, or because of debts. Not that I would know, but I figured since it's the sex industry...

 

[Inglorious891]

Kind of yeah, I guess. I mean, you're there only to oogle at ladies' knockers and cans, and only that.

And also, I'm sure there's plenty of ladies that work there of their own free will, because they like it, they like the money, or they want to put themselves through college. But then I can't help but feel like there's also a good bunch that are forced into this vocation against their will for fear of violence, or because of debts. Not that I would know, but I figured since it's the sex industry...

I was actually gonna bring that up in the OP, but then I realize that's a topic for its own thread, although not much more can be said besides, "People need to be less prude so workers in the sex industry can be seen as just regular Janes and Joes and get the protection/rights they deserve as humans beings".

One reason for that though is the thought that it would be offensive to the female population in general as such places actively objectify women.

Everyone objectifies everybody man. Think about it if you are doing a job then your boss is objectifying you since they are using you as a tool to complete a task. If we are going to play up objectification the way feminists do then everyone is objectified constantly and it is actually just a normal part of living.

Which is why I feel rather conflicted on the issue, and it's more just because, whether I want to admit it or not, feminist talk has gotten to me in several ways, and this is one way that it's lodged itself into my brain. I know it's a silly thought to view objectification as bad since it happens all the time and isn't inherently harmful, but I still have second thoughts. Dunno, maybe it'll just come with time.

OT: I don't think they are misogynistic, I would say the opposite in fact it is a entire club dedicated to admiration of the female form. People literally pay money just for the mere opportunity to be in the presence of a women, as if a woman's sheer existence gives them value. If anything I think it is degrading to men to pay for something like that when normally it should be something of a mutual human exchange.

You may be overthinking it a bit, at least for most people who go to strip clubs. I imagine the main reason for going to one is just to see attractive women when seeing them on computer monitors isn't enough. For me, the idea of having some random chick treat me like I'm hot shit even when she has no idea who I am and is just doing it so I give her cash is just off-putting, so I'd rather not go through with it.

 

[LysanderNemoinis]

Strip clubs are evil and part of the patriarchy and everyone who goes to them hates women. Except for the strip clubs women go to that feature male strippers. Those are okay.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

I fail to understand how misogyny, a term exclusively addresses females and strip club, which has both genders working.

So I guess the answer is no, moving on.

 

[Lufia Erim]

No. Because there are strip clubs for women to wnjoy the male body. And those tend to be a LOT raunchier than what guys get in strip clubs.

 

[chadachada123]

It's funny, I just had a conversation with a close friend, the only one of us that's been to a strip club, about clubs today.

Anyway, while they definitely aren't for me, I don't think there's anything wrong with the concept. Guys are attracted to "sexy" females, guys pay females to act sexy. All parties are consenting, so everyone wins. Obviously it's the same for male strip clubs, too.

If a woman doesn't want to work but is doing it because it's the best money she can find, I don't really see how that's an issue any more than nearly every other unwanted but well-paying career. If anything, it's a good thing to help break down the puritanical bullshit that has been holding American society back; helping to make it less of a big deal for a woman to make a living pleasuring men.

My closest ex is now a 'dancer', and she seems pretty damn content using her body to make money. Power to her.

 

[renegade7]

Just as with any form of sex work, it can depend a lot on the club.

There are plenty of clubs that take advantage of their male and female performers. Sometimes it's exploitation, where they target people with drug problems or other serious circumstances and essentially offer them the choice between working for them without complaint and poverty. There are some clubs who don't make any effort at all to protect their workers from sexual violence or diseases, skirt the line between legal performance and illegal prostitution and use that ambiguity to get away with other illegal things (because what are you going to do, go to the cops?), nor do they try to protect the identities of their workers. There are always going to be some employers who treat their employees like nothing more than human cattle.

There are also clubs who make a great effort to treat their workers well and where there is a genuine attitude of positivity and protection of personal rights. One could be a cynic and say that it's just because you need to be a good employer to attract the best talent, and that's true, but the result is the same. Some clubs are genuinely great places for their performers to work at.

I don't know if it's social norms so much as biological norms where the demand for female performers is higher than the demand for male performers. Remember that males are predisposed to higher rates of arousal due to their ability to reproduce multiple times a day whereas females have a lower predisposition which is hypothesized to their ability to reproduce once per year. These biological differences are not likely just social normatives. We see these across multiple species and while humans may like to believe that we are evolved beyond animal instinct that simply isn't even close to being true.

That may be true, but people don't go to strip clubs to have babies, so I don't know how good of an explanation that is.

 

[SweetShark]

You will be surpriced how many woman costumers go with their boyfriends just for the heck of it. I even saw a lap dance girl to girl while the boyfriend watching yo.
It is shameful. SURE.
I care? No, I paid [in the old good days I had a member card and didn't paid to get inside, only for the "drink"].
A work is still a work and they get paid for it. Don't overthink about it.