"Metal is a genre for children. Everything about it is infantile and appeals to an immature misconception of "cool" that adults know simply means shit/angry for the sake of being shit/angry. That explains why it has developed such an expansive subculture despite the awful quality of the music. Pretty much every teenager goes through a phase like that, being angry at everything and that's when most of them land on metal. Unfortunately for some of those people they never grow out of that mindset and will always remain petulant and adversarial, believing it to be a strength just like the terrible taste in music they adopted thanks to their myriad of personal problems.
Of course I'll get plenty of people calling that bullshit and telling me how smart/well balanced/successful they are despite the shit that they listen to. My entire life has been spent around metal fans and metalheads and I can guarantee that it's so uniformly true I have no reservations about casting these aspersions on total strangers. People are boring and predictable and metalheads are the most boring/predictable of the bunch."
I hope not, because that would make you an ignorant asshole.
No, like I said three posts up I exaggerated my statement. But I do agree with him when he says that the genre is repetitive and uninventive, that it has shitty rhythms and melodies and that there is a lack of instruments in pretty much every metal song.
If that still makes me a ignorant asshole then so be it.
I do not listen to metal. In fact it's one of my least favourite genres and I have never been able to fathom the love people have for it. It's ceaselessly angsty, repetitive and uninventive, it's characterised by muddy, ugly sounding guitars playing boring chords in uninspired rhythms and occasionally there's the desperate attempt to fret-wank something cool out of the single scale most metal guitarists use (pentatonic). Not to mention that the vocalists that have no imagination or discernible skill as lyricists or singers.
I find the people that listen to metal or proclaim themselves "metalheads" are either troubled social outcasts who find the aggressive style of the music helps them cope with their impotent rage at being a pathetic social outcast, or musicians who respect speed and repetition rather than the inventive rhythms, melodies, harmonies and instrumentation used in other forms of music (which makes them terrible musicians).
Metal is absolutely awful for it's lack of instrumentation too. Sure, many bands throw in a token acoustic track every now and then or use orchestral backing but it is always subdued and diluted by the terrible, ugly sound of overdriven guitars.. I especially hate the ones that use far too much mid, which only serves to blur everything into one dirty mess of noise. Then of course you have the crossover genres, which are usually ham-fisted blends of two opposing styles of music complete with an awful vocalist, murdering two genres in one.
Metal is a genre for children. Everything about it is infantile and appeals to an immature misconception of "cool" that adults know simply means shit/angry for the sake of being shit/angry. That explains why it has developed such an expansive subculture despite the awful quality of the music. Pretty much every teenager goes through a phase like that, being angry at everything and that's when most of them land on metal. Unfortunately for some of those people they never grow out of that mindset and will always remain petulant and adversarial, believing it to be a strength just like the terrible taste in music they adopted thanks to their myriad of personal problems.
Of course I'll get plenty of people calling that bullshit and telling me how smart/well balanced/successful they are despite the shit that they listen to. My entire life has been spent around metal fans and metalheads and I can guarantee that it's so uniformly true I have no reservations about casting these aspersions on total strangers. People are boring and predictable and metalheads are the most boring/predictable of the bunch.
Yeah, yeah, listening to metal means that you "get it" and you're a special little flower and you and all your comrades are enlightened to a truth that the rest of the world will never understand. Go learn about in-group/out-group phenomena while I laugh derisively at your belief that you're anything more than a mindless drone.
Though I agree with you a lot about the fanbase, which is something that's driven me away from the genre, it's ironic you complain about their arrogance and then go on blanketing it as "uninventive", "lacking instrumentation" and "ceaselessly angsty". A lot is, especially the stuff "outsiders" get exposed to, but a lot isn't. Weird that you'd have such a passionate opinion about something you obviously don't know much about.
Jim Trailerpark said:
wait, what?? True metal? Extreme? Radio?
Kid, learn your subgenres before making polls like this
pls tell me you're referring to our gorgeous French Canadian legends, in which case hi5. though I don't understand why so many people label them as heavy.
CatBus said:
Raikas said:
CatBus said:
I find the people that listen to metal or proclaim themselves "metalheads"...
As I see it, that "or" is actually an important distinction. People's likes and dislikes are diverse, but I'm always suspicious of people who have made being a fan of some particular genre into a major cultural marker.
Personally, I don't listen to metal aside from a couple of subgenres (symphonic metal and dance metal) which generally have equal influences in other genres, but I've certainly known plenty of people who listen to traditional metal who don't define themselves by their taste in music. And realistically, how many people genuinely only listen to a single genre of music? Even the most stereotypically "metalhead" couple I know also go to the opera and check out the local jazz festival, so I'm not seeing how any meaningful
CatBus said:
EDIT: I hate untruths, and metal being a good genre is one of the biggest lies I've ever heard... perpetuated only because of the misconceptions people have about their own minds and tastes.
But taste is relative - a difference of opinion is hardly a lie. If someone loves something that I hate and hates what I love, I just learn not to take their advice on which concerts to attend - I don't assume that they're lying to me. That's such a bizarre way of framing something as subjective as taste.
Believing that opinion is above right and wrong is foolish. Some people were of the opinion the world was flat. Didn't make them any less retarded did it? Opinion is only protected to make stupid people feel worthwhile.
That's an objective idea though. It isn't an opinion because it isn't something that can be proved correct or incorrect. Obviously it's wrong. Music taste is a subjective opinion, someone's particular taste. You can't say someone's enjoyment of something is incorrect and shouldn't exist; it doesn't make sense, because they do enjoy it whether you do or not.
And then I can just refer back to this earlier post which completely contradicts what you've said about metal.
It's funny, cos this was exactly the band I was thinking of as I read your posts before I saw that one.
It was more of an attempt to lump a lot of similar genres together because of the limited poll options. I know my genres and listen to a wide variety from symphonic to brutal death to metalcore to progressive and everything in between.
I usually listen to Rammstein, Pantera, Megadeth, Motörhead etc. But also a huge mish-mash of other kinds of music (soundtracks, blues, whatever Gorillaz is, rock, and the list goes on (a few opera songs (Andrea Bocelli = childhood memories)
I have never heard of them before.. and that song makes some nice background music for doing other things.
Normally I just discover metal by remixes or covers.
Yea it's a really nice band. Appeals to my inner space geek. The song off that particular album (The Galilean Satellites) has a lot of space elements, the ambiance in the songs really brings it home. Lyrics about traveling though space to reach Europa. Amazing piece of music. They actually have another album coming out tomorrow (or today in my case) as a pay-what-you-want digital download off their site.
More ear candy, cannot help but post more of this phenomenal band. Gives me the shivers every time I listen to their space orientated songs.
Love me some power metal and heavy metal. Blind Guardian is the rare band that manages to take the extremely heavy sound of metal and turn it into a positive, or at least heroic melody rather than being completely dark. I have yet to find a song of theirs that I dislike. Hell, listen to this: it's a musical version of the battle between Morgoth and Ungoliant from the Silmarillion, and they make it sound AWESOME.
On the other end of the spectrum I have a fondness for Sabaton, which is about as bleak and cynical as you can get. Where Blind Guardian takes from mythology and fantasy for their uplifting and epic songs, Sabaton goes pitch black by focusing on war, death, destruction and the toll it takes on humanity. Another great band.
Love me some power metal and heavy metal. Blind Guardian is the rare band that manages to take the extremely heavy sound of metal and turn it into a positive, or at least heroic melody rather than being completely dark. I have yet to find a song of theirs that I dislike. Hell, listen to this: it's a musical version of the battle between Morgoth and Ungoliant from the Silmarillion, and they make it sound AWESOME.
On the other end of the spectrum I have a fondness for Sabaton, which is about as bleak and cynical as you can get. Where Blind Guardian takes from mythology and fantasy for their uplifting and epic songs, Sabaton goes pitch black by focusing on war, death, destruction and the toll it takes on humanity. Another great band.
I wonder if Cat Bus could be the first user to accumulate an entire banning's worth of knocks to the health bar from posting in a single thread? And by the by, Miyazaki films are for children. I'm not even being cute right now, they are quite literally targeted towards kids. That's 'objective' right there, son. I won't out and out refer to him by a particular term, but I would advise other posters not to offer nourishment to certain mythological creatures known to dwell under bridges as no good can come of it. Also yes, I do listen to metal. As it so happens, I'm listening to some right now. I'd list examples but I'm feeling lazy, so I'll just go ahead and link you to a fairly recent thread I posted in [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.823603-Do-you-have-eclectic-taste-in-music#19948213] and you can get a handful of examples of what I'm into on there.
Metal's one of the weaker genres of music, but yea, I listen to it.
In fact I'm listening to Dethalbum 3 for the first time right now. Pretty good, but still not remotely as good as THE Dethalbum (that shit was glorious).
Dethalbum 3 is too much yelling drowned out by music. The music is good, but you can't understand Nathan at all now, and that's what made The Dethalbum so damn good. :/
Generally I tend toward music that has....a better measure of itself.
The only things I don't listen to are country, rap, and R&B (with very few exceptions).
So metal is "just another genre" among the many, really.
I guess I tend toward indie rock, alternative rock, art rock, alternative metal
On the other end of the spectrum I have a fondness for Sabaton, which is about as bleak and cynical as you can get. Where Blind Guardian takes from mythology and fantasy for their uplifting and epic songs, Sabaton goes pitch black by focusing on war, death, destruction and the toll it takes on humanity. Another great band.
Here is a fairly long post I made once upon a time about the different sub-genres of heavy metal music.
I tried the best I was able, please forgive me for any thing I missed, glossed over, or perpetuated in the wrong light.
Metal music is....well, I'm not going to even try going there. To use a very cliche line, it's a lot of different things to different people.
Sometimes it is based on complex playing, complicated thick arrangements, and heavy throwbacks to old classical composers.
Sometimes as well it can be simple, straight forward, almost minimalistic, and straight out fun.
It can be happy, it can be sad. It can be angry and it can be introspective.
Simply, it's a lot like other music genres. Varied and as colorful as the folks who enjoy it.
Probably the easiest way is to show you what all the sub-genres sound like.
The examples I have provided are not 'set in stone-this is how every band in this sub-genre sounds like'. They are only approximations, but they should again, not be taken as the final say.
There is much contention on the sub-genres themselves between most metal listeners. For simplicity and sanity's sake, I'm only going to use the most popular and agreed upon ones.
One more note, I will try to the best of my ability to be as factual as one can on something like this, but somethings I just do not know.
Black Metal
----------------
Started in Norway in the 1980's I believe. From what I remember, it's whole reason for existing initially was for the members playing. It was never intended to be heard, recorded, sold, or commercialized in any way. This is, over enough time, precisely what has happened however.
Lyrics are often about satanism, hatred for religion, Christianity in particular. It's debated whether how much these lyrics are meant to be genuine, however a number of bands have admitted to using it as a shock tactic, or just to make interesting lyrical content. Other bands still though, namely ones from Scandinavia are in fact practicing Satanists and have generated much controversy for their actions as well as music.
Lyrics can just as easily revolve around pagan beliefs, nature, or introspection.
The music tends to have an intentionally bleak atmosphere that is complimented by the low recording fidelity.
There can be a heavy use of tremolo picking on the guitars, and drums are often simple blast beats, with a vocalist shrieking through it all.
Death Metal
-----------------
This style loves to embellish the heavy side of things and generally be as extreme as possible. Instrumentation can vary, but it's generally characterized by a heavy and thick guitar tone, chunky riffs, and a deep throated vocalist.
Lyrics centered on gory or death-related ideas initially, hence the name, but ideas and themes of varying sorts have been used over the years.
Death metal can be complex or simple, you see both quite often.
Doom Metal
------------------
This sub-genre focuses on simple, plodding, drawn out riffs and very basic drumming most of the time, with a vocalist who typically uses a cleaner singing style.
Repetition is used often to help build the atmosphere and suspense in a song, with tracks known to exceed the hour mark.
As far as atmosphere goes, the aim of this genre is in the name.
Doom.
Fear, impending dread, and typically depressive lyrics are the norm, but many bands also sing about nature, life, God, and occultism.
Power Metal
------------------
This sub-set of metal has a very heavy influence from classical composers, especially in guitar solos.
Typically a faster style of music, but can me mid paced, even slow as well.
Lyrics almost always revolve around some form of struggle and triumph, glory, victory and adventure.
Singers tend to be on the clean side, with a heavy emphasis on falsetto.
Longer songs tend to be prominent, but are not the rule.
Progressive Metal
-------------------------
Two 'typical' sounding prog metal bands
Two functionally progressive bands
Technically, this is not really a sub genre specification, as it can be applied to any of the sub-genres(Progressive black metal, progressive power metal ect) as it's only defining characteristic is complex musicianship.However over time it has become it's own sub-genre. Odd-time signatures, introspective lyrics are almost the norm. Singers can be as varied as you can imagine, but 'typical' progressive metal tends to have clean singers with prolific vocal ranges.
This one overall is kind of tricky to nail down, it's something you get the ability to just hear and recognize over time.
Thrash Metal
------------------
Got it's start and arguably had it's heyday in the early 80's, though has experienced a revival of sorts since 2000.
Heavily influenced by hardcore punk.
Characterized my screaming fast beats, manic riffs and a singer to match.
Tends to focus on having fun with silly or tongue in cheek lyrics, however not all bands follow this trend.
Heavy Metal
==============
This one is a bit contested, though I do see it recognized enough as it's own area of musical sound and structure.(Though it IS cross polinated with other sounds very often.) Fairly straight forward music, with a falsetto screeching/faux operatic singer. Music tends to have more in common with hard rock and even blues than any of the more extreme examples listed above.
Whew!
I want to stress that these are not restrictions bands set out before making music so as to sound a certain way, but rather a collection of styles that have evolved naturally over time.
Personal view: In no way does anything need to try to ft in to an established sound.These are not limitations, just clarifications for styles of sound that are different from one another.
As I said, I know I missed some, like sludge, but I feel anything beyond this is too tertiary to try and explain. (I.e I don't know how to do so properly)
Here is a fairly long post I made once upon a time about the different sub-genres of heavy metal music.
I tried the best I was able, please forgive me for any thing I missed, glossed over, or perpetuated in the wrong light.
Metal music is....well, I'm not going to even try going there. To use a very cliche line, it's a lot of different things to different people.
Sometimes it is based on complex playing, complicated thick arrangements, and heavy throwbacks to old classical composers.
Sometimes as well it can be simple, straight forward, almost minimalistic, and straight out fun.
It can be happy, it can be sad. It can be angry and it can be introspective.
Simply, it's a lot like other music genres. Varied and as colorful as the folks who enjoy it.
Probably the easiest way is to show you what all the sub-genres sound like.
The examples I have provided are not 'set in stone-this is how every band in this sub-genre sounds like'. They are only approximations, but they should again, not be taken as the final say.
There is much contention on the sub-genres themselves between most metal listeners. For simplicity and sanity's sake, I'm only going to use the most popular and agreed upon ones.
One more note, I will try to the best of my ability to be as factual as one can on something like this, but somethings I just do not know.
Black Metal
----------------
Started in Norway in the 1980's I believe. From what I remember, it's whole reason for existing initially was for the members playing. It was never intended to be heard, recorded, sold, or commercialized in any way. This is, over enough time, precisely what has happened however.
Lyrics are often about satanism, hatred for religion, Christianity in particular. It's debated whether how much these lyrics are meant to be genuine, however a number of bands have admitted to using it as a shock tactic, or just to make interesting lyrical content. Other bands still though, namely ones from Scandinavia are in fact practicing Satanists and have generated much controversy for their actions as well as music.
Lyrics can just as easily revolve around pagan beliefs, nature, or introspection.
The music tends to have an intentionally bleak atmosphere that is complimented by the low recording fidelity.
There can be a heavy use of tremolo picking on the guitars, and drums are often simple blast beats, with a vocalist shrieking through it all.
Death Metal
-----------------
This style loves to embellish the heavy side of things and generally be as extreme as possible. Instrumentation can vary, but it's generally characterized by a heavy and thick guitar tone, chunky riffs, and a deep throated vocalist.
Lyrics centered on gory or death-related ideas initially, hence the name, but ideas and themes of varying sorts have been used over the years.
Death metal can be complex or simple, you see both quite often.
Doom Metal
------------------
This sub-genre focuses on simple, plodding, drawn out riffs and very basic drumming most of the time, with a vocalist who typically uses a cleaner singing style.
Repetition is used often to help build the atmosphere and suspense in a song, with tracks known to exceed the hour mark.
As far as atmosphere goes, the aim of this genre is in the name.
Doom.
Fear, impending dread, and typically depressive lyrics are the norm, but many bands also sing about nature, life, God, and occultism.
Power Metal
------------------
This sub-set of metal has a very heavy influence from classical composers, especially in guitar solos.
Typically a faster style of music, but can me mid paced, even slow as well.
Lyrics almost always revolve around some form of struggle and triumph, glory, victory and adventure.
Singers tend to be on the clean side, with a heavy emphasis on falsetto.
Longer songs tend to be prominent, but are not the rule.
Progressive Metal
-------------------------
Two 'typical' sounding prog metal bands
Two functionally progressive bands
Technically, this is not really a sub genre specification, as it can be applied to any of the sub-genres(Progressive black metal, progressive power metal ect) as it's only defining characteristic is complex musicianship.However over time it has become it's own sub-genre. Odd-time signatures, introspective lyrics are almost the norm. Singers can be as varied as you can imagine, but 'typical' progressive metal tends to have clean singers with prolific vocal ranges.
This one overall is kind of tricky to nail down, it's something you get the ability to just hear and recognize over time.
Thrash Metal
------------------
Got it's start and arguably had it's heyday in the early 80's, though has experienced a revival of sorts since 2000.
Heavily influenced by hardcore punk.
Characterized my screaming fast beats, manic riffs and a singer to match.
Tends to focus on having fun with silly or tongue in cheek lyrics, however not all bands follow this trend.
Heavy Metal
==============
This one is a bit contested, though I do see it recognized enough as it's own area of musical sound and structure.(Though it IS cross polinated with other sounds very often.) Fairly straight forward music, with a falsetto screeching/faux operatic singer. Music tends to have more in common with hard rock and even blues than any of the more extreme examples listed above.
Whew!
I want to stress that these are not restrictions bands set out before making music so as to sound a certain way, but rather a collection of styles that have evolved naturally over time.
Personal view: In no way does anything need to try to ft in to an established sound.These are not limitations, just clarifications for styles of sound that are different from one another.
As I said, I know I missed some, like sludge, but I feel anything beyond this is too tertiary to try and explain. (I.e I don't know how to do so properly)
I would contest your decision to put Judas Priest in "Heavy Metal" since they have been added to the genre NWOBHM (New Wave Of British Heavy Metal) since almost from the day the formed, along with bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon and Diamond Head.
Also Black Sabbath isn't exactly Doom Metal, however most Doom Metal bands certainly are influenced by them.
Take for instance songs like Trashed, Mob Rules and Neon Knights.
Here is a fairly long post I made once upon a time about the different sub-genres of heavy metal music.
I tried the best I was able, please forgive me for any thing I missed, glossed over, or perpetuated in the wrong light.
Metal music is....well, I'm not going to even try going there. To use a very cliche line, it's a lot of different things to different people.
Sometimes it is based on complex playing, complicated thick arrangements, and heavy throwbacks to old classical composers.
Sometimes as well it can be simple, straight forward, almost minimalistic, and straight out fun.
It can be happy, it can be sad. It can be angry and it can be introspective.
Simply, it's a lot like other music genres. Varied and as colorful as the folks who enjoy it.
Probably the easiest way is to show you what all the sub-genres sound like.
The examples I have provided are not 'set in stone-this is how every band in this sub-genre sounds like'. They are only approximations, but they should again, not be taken as the final say.
There is much contention on the sub-genres themselves between most metal listeners. For simplicity and sanity's sake, I'm only going to use the most popular and agreed upon ones.
One more note, I will try to the best of my ability to be as factual as one can on something like this, but somethings I just do not know.
Black Metal
----------------
Started in Norway in the 1980's I believe. From what I remember, it's whole reason for existing initially was for the members playing. It was never intended to be heard, recorded, sold, or commercialized in any way. This is, over enough time, precisely what has happened however.
Lyrics are often about satanism, hatred for religion, Christianity in particular. It's debated whether how much these lyrics are meant to be genuine, however a number of bands have admitted to using it as a shock tactic, or just to make interesting lyrical content. Other bands still though, namely ones from Scandinavia are in fact practicing Satanists and have generated much controversy for their actions as well as music.
Lyrics can just as easily revolve around pagan beliefs, nature, or introspection.
The music tends to have an intentionally bleak atmosphere that is complimented by the low recording fidelity.
There can be a heavy use of tremolo picking on the guitars, and drums are often simple blast beats, with a vocalist shrieking through it all.
Death Metal
-----------------
This style loves to embellish the heavy side of things and generally be as extreme as possible. Instrumentation can vary, but it's generally characterized by a heavy and thick guitar tone, chunky riffs, and a deep throated vocalist.
Lyrics centered on gory or death-related ideas initially, hence the name, but ideas and themes of varying sorts have been used over the years.
Death metal can be complex or simple, you see both quite often.
Doom Metal
------------------
This sub-genre focuses on simple, plodding, drawn out riffs and very basic drumming most of the time, with a vocalist who typically uses a cleaner singing style.
Repetition is used often to help build the atmosphere and suspense in a song, with tracks known to exceed the hour mark.
As far as atmosphere goes, the aim of this genre is in the name.
Doom.
Fear, impending dread, and typically depressive lyrics are the norm, but many bands also sing about nature, life, God, and occultism.
Power Metal
------------------
This sub-set of metal has a very heavy influence from classical composers, especially in guitar solos.
Typically a faster style of music, but can me mid paced, even slow as well.
Lyrics almost always revolve around some form of struggle and triumph, glory, victory and adventure.
Singers tend to be on the clean side, with a heavy emphasis on falsetto.
Longer songs tend to be prominent, but are not the rule.
Progressive Metal
-------------------------
Two 'typical' sounding prog metal bands
Two functionally progressive bands
Technically, this is not really a sub genre specification, as it can be applied to any of the sub-genres(Progressive black metal, progressive power metal ect) as it's only defining characteristic is complex musicianship.However over time it has become it's own sub-genre. Odd-time signatures, introspective lyrics are almost the norm. Singers can be as varied as you can imagine, but 'typical' progressive metal tends to have clean singers with prolific vocal ranges.
This one overall is kind of tricky to nail down, it's something you get the ability to just hear and recognize over time.
Thrash Metal
------------------
Got it's start and arguably had it's heyday in the early 80's, though has experienced a revival of sorts since 2000.
Heavily influenced by hardcore punk.
Characterized my screaming fast beats, manic riffs and a singer to match.
Tends to focus on having fun with silly or tongue in cheek lyrics, however not all bands follow this trend.
Heavy Metal
==============
This one is a bit contested, though I do see it recognized enough as it's own area of musical sound and structure.(Though it IS cross polinated with other sounds very often.) Fairly straight forward music, with a falsetto screeching/faux operatic singer. Music tends to have more in common with hard rock and even blues than any of the more extreme examples listed above.
Whew!
I want to stress that these are not restrictions bands set out before making music so as to sound a certain way, but rather a collection of styles that have evolved naturally over time.
Personal view: In no way does anything need to try to ft in to an established sound.These are not limitations, just clarifications for styles of sound that are different from one another.
As I said, I know I missed some, like sludge, but I feel anything beyond this is too tertiary to try and explain. (I.e I don't know how to do so properly)
I would contest your decision to put Judas Priest in "Heavy Metal" since they have been added to the genre NWOBHM (New Wave Of British Heavy Metal) since almost from the day the formed, along with bands like Iron Maiden, Saxon and Diamond Head.
Indeed. This is one contention that pops up frequently that I've seen. That of if the music should categorized, it should be by the structure and style of the music and not a perceived vague qualifier. (New Wave of..., Viking metal, where it comes from, ect)
My personal response is this is such an intensely individual thing that I have no problem with it and totally respect it.
I will say though that all those bands could fit into other established sub-genres. Maiden - Heavy/power Saxon and Diamond Head both heavy as well.
Please please don't take this the wrong way. It's very early here and I'm quite tired and trying my best to be as non-confrontational about this as I can. : )
Edit: Also yes, Sabbath is certainly tricky, since their style changed a lot as they went on.
So addendum, they were a doom(more proto-doom probably) in their early days.
Edit 2: I should have put in there that those songs were just representing a particular sub-genere, not the whole of the bands work.
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