Poll: Do you support gay marriage?

[Arakasi]

I voted "no". Not because I oppose it, but because I don't care enough to support one position or the other. This society is going down the tubes, anyway. Who cares what it sanctions? We're heading for another Dark Ages. And soon.

-Facepalm-
Doomsdayers have been around for centuries. As you can see, none have been right so far.

And I concede the point that one cannot control their feelings. However, I would like to point out that we can control how we act on them. Some people, for instance, are built with a natural inclination towards violence, some are genetically more likely to become alcoholics. These people are expected to control their actions despite whatever predisposition or circumstance. To break that down even further, it is not wrong to have homosexual feelings. What is wrong, however, is to act on them.

? "Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If thou sayest 'He knows', then it necessarily follows that [that] man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God's knowledge would be imperfect.?" - Moses Maimonides

Free will is not compatable with Christianity, so basically everyone who goes to hell, was determined to go to hell by God. As such, everyone who is homosexual, and acts upon it, was determined to by God.

I do not believe it should be illegal though and I will not fight against homosexuality precisely because I fail to see how it might harm anyone but themselves.

And how does it harm them?
The bible was never exactly clear on why homosexuality is immoral, so I'd like to hear your perspective on that.

I want to make abundantly clear that I hold a belief, but I do not impose it on anyone. What I believe does not matter to you because I believe you have a God-given right to do and believe whatever you want. Do I believe there's a correct path? Yes. But you don't have to follow it. Live and let live.

So, basically you just said that you support gay marriage.
Right?



Note that I respect you for not being the classic steryotyped Christian bible basher.
But it also makes me sad that someone with such clear inteligence be led into such an anti-intellectual, fear-based, cruel ideology.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

I support it, and I'd go out of my way to support it.

Captcha: Cole Slaw
I hate Cole Slaw.

 

[Blunderman]

That's what it usually boils down to. It's not about religion, faith, the sanctity of marriage or anything; it's just that gays are icky.

As far as I can tell that has nothing to do with what I just said. My point is that there is no irony there. And it probably does have to do with his religion.

"Gays are icky" is a personal judgement.

And your contention doesn't make sense. It's not "personal" faith if it involves making judgements about others. It can only be personal if the entirety of it applies solely to the person themselves; no one else. Hence, there is irony.

Whether this particular individual is dressing up his homophobia in faith & religion, I don't know, however I find it hard to believe that he would judge homosexuals so harshly if there wasn't some part of him that resonated with such thoughts.

Yes, it can be personal if it involves making judgements about others. What would stop it from being personal is if those judgements caused him to say, be against gay marriage.

Your disbelief isn't a particularly valid argument.

It was not intended to be an argument; I preceded it with "I don't know."

No. "Personal" faith does not involve others, which should be obvious given the very definition of the word. If his faith was truly personal, then he would only apply it to himself. He's not. He thinks that his beliefs give him the right to judge others.

His lack of practical application doesn't change the fact that he thinks other people are subject to what he personally believes.

I personally disapprove. I fail to see the issue here.

I'd rather not debate whether or not someone is born gay. That is not the issue on this thread. And I concede the point that one cannot control their feelings. However, I would like to point out that we can control how we act on them. Some people, for instance, are built with a natural inclination towards violence, some are genetically more likely to become alcoholics. These people are expected to control their actions despite whatever predisposition or circumstance.

Whether someone is born gay isn't relevant. Neither is whether someone is born heterosexual. All that's relevant is the fact that homosexuality is just as natural; it is not a disease or something that can or should be done away with. It is a sexuality no less valid than heterosexuality.

Once again, you're being very condescending with what you equate homosexuality with. Being gay is just love, in the same way that being straight is, whereas violence involves inflicting pain, possibly death, on others, and alcoholism is a form of self-destruction.

Only destructive behaviours need to be controlled. Homosexuality is not destructive.

To break that down even further, it is not wrong to have homosexual feelings. What is wrong, however, is to act on them. However, it is also wrong for me to approach them with judgement and reproach. That's not the way we're supposed to treat anyone, especially outside of the church. The Bible calls Christians to compassion and love, not what we've seen from televangelists like Pat Robertson.

If it's wrong for you to "approach them with judgement and reproach," why are you doing it? You can't hide behind a certain lack of practical application; you're judging them all the same.

I believe that everyone is born wrong and born a sinner. Everyone. Not just homosexuals. Nobody is born pure. Everyone sins and everyone will be judged equally in the eyes of God. This is not any form of targeted hatred. I am also a sinner and I work daily to repent.

No, it's not targeted hatred, it's universal hatred; we all suck. According to you, anyway. So much for that stuff about "compassion and love."

I have gay friends. They know what I believe, they understand that I believe homosexual acts are wrong, but they accept me as I accept them. It is a relationship built on understanding and mutual respect for each others' views. I believe that they are responsible for their actions, just as I am for mine. If they ever choose to follow Christ, they'll do so willingly. They won't do it because I forced my beliefs on them, argued theology or science with them, or explained eternal damnation and hellfire. They'll do it because of compassion and love showed to them first. Christians have a terrible track record with love and compassion when it comes to homosexuals. That needs to change for everyone's sake.

And you're not helping. You're furthering and nursing homophobia, nothing more, nothing less. Do you seriously think that "Your entire sexuality is wrong, a sin, and will land you in hell, but I won't stop you" is any comfort whatsoever?

Finally, I am striving to be as unargumentative as possible, but I feel it is necessary to point out that you've been not only putting words in my mouth, but you have also been making assumptions about my personal views and beliefs. You've attacked my belief system with, frankly, the same bigotry you accuse me of. I'd be happy to discuss this further with you, but I'd like to humbly ask you to turn it down a notch.

Provide me with examples of my transgressions and I will concede them. I'd prefer not to make assumptions about which of my words you have disapproved of.

I believe that if you examined my personal beliefs, my lifestyle, and my conduct, you would not find me a bigoted, hateful, or spiteful person.

So, you're not a bigoted, hateful or spiteful person, but you believe that homosexuals are all wrong ? no, you believe that every human being on the planet is wrong. Your God sounds like a grossly judgemental entity who made us into something he despises only to play a game of "guess the faith" that the crushing majority of people fail.

We've already disproved your bible, mate, do you have anything to back up your beliefs?

 

[Lovely Mixture]

The short answer: Humans are the only species that can conciously choose to be homo-erotic, and even then I believe it is a state of mind that, yes, you can be born with, but still, ultimately a choice. People who's predecessing family have despression will themselves have inclination toward having depression just like with any other hereditary condition, and I believe homo-sexuality is the same.

For someone who chooses the scientific over religion (not you particularily, just generally) they could agree that it is illogical to think that nature would purposefully design itself to not be able to reproduce, which is one of the (if not THE) driving goals of life.

There are a lot of things I take issue with in your, but they seem to be avoiding the point by implying that homosexuality is "wrong." I still don't see what issue you take the image.

It states a fact, it uses the fact to argue that "unnaturalness" is not a valid argument.

 

[Jaeke]

The short answer: Humans are the only species that can conciously choose to be homo-erotic, and even then I believe it is a state of mind that, yes, you can be born with, but still, ultimately a choice. People who's predecessing family have despression will themselves have inclination toward having depression just like with any other hereditary condition, and I believe homo-sexuality is the same.

For someone who chooses the scientific over religion (not you particularily, just generally) they could agree that it is illogical to think that nature would purposefully design itself to not be able to reproduce, which is one of the (if not THE) driving goals of life.

There are a lot of things I take issue with in your, but they seem to be avoiding the point by implying that homosexuality is "wrong." I still don't see what issue you take the image.

It states a fact, it uses the fact to argue that "unnaturalness" is not a valid argument.

If that's how you understand that statement then you seriously took it the wrong way. I wasn't implying homosexuality was wrong, I was implying that using the products nature itself in the form of other species as a strong point to support anger against homophobia (while it isn't a terrible cause) is just wrong and stupid.

 

[CellShaded]

Yup. I support gay marriage.

All there really is to say to it. Definitely not gonna go through 18 pages to pick at those that are against it, since it's their opinion.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

If that's how you understand that statement then you seriously took it the wrong way. I wasn't implying homosexuality was wrong,

Yes I may have over extrapolated a bit. But this passage seems to imply homosexuality is "against nature" and I thought that was leaving it open to ridicule:

For someone who chooses the scientific over religion (not you particularily, just generally) they could agree that it is illogical to think that nature would purposefully design itself to not be able to reproduce, which is one of the (if not THE) driving goals of life.

I was implying that using the products nature itself in the form of other species as a strong point to support anger against homophobia (while it isn't a terrible cause) is just wrong and stupid.

Why? Homophobes use the nature argument all the time without knowing what it means. Why not refute a stupid argument with a statement that shows how ridiculous it is?

Take it like so:

A:"Homosexuality is unnatural."
B: "Then why is it found in nature?"
A: "Well cannibalism is also found in nature, that doesn't make it right in all human societies."
B: "So you're saying that human society is different from nature?"
A: "Well yes."
B: "So we can agree that arguing about "nature" and the "natural order" goes nowhere then right?"

 

[God's Clown]

I am completely and utterly against Gay people not being able to get married because of people feeling uncomfortable with it, or because of Religion. They are people, the same as straight people. They contribute to society, they have feelings, they can love, they can be sad, they can hate, they can be angry. They are in every possible way the same as everyone else, except for the fact they love people of their own sex.

It really disgusts me that in this day and age people are still discriminated against because of shallow, weak, and pathetic reasons such as personal hatred or "Because God said blah blah." If they want to get Married, more power to them, it's their choice.

Sure, if a church is against gay marriage, don't let them get married in a CHURCH, but the Government should have zero right to ban the act of marriage. Separation of Church and State needs to be way more literal then it is.

 

[lunavixen]

There is nothing wrong with gay marriage, a large proportion of my friends are not heterosexual, and i support them and their choices wholly. You can't choose who you love. I don't care about religions as they should not enter into this kind of discussion, this is a personal thing.

For those of you (you know who you are) that say that "...Marriage is the union of a man and a woman...", definitions can be changed, they have changed over time and will again in the future, nothing is fixed.

For those of you (again, you know who you are) who say "It's unnatural! It's disgusting!" etc. GROW UP!! If you ignoramuses would open your eyes and actually look, homosexuality is more common than you think and it's not restricted to humans.

Bias and discrimination have kept people divided for far too long. Either everyone should be able to get married, regardless of sexuality, ethnicity and location... Or, no one should.

That is all i'm going to say.

 

[Richard Keohane]

People don't often understand what we mean when we say we're trying to protect the sanctity of marriage. I think this short video will make you see things from our perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPm52rmKYI

I hope this clears things up and leads to greater understanding.

 

[Nooh]

People don't often understand what we mean when we say we're trying to protect the sanctity of marriage. I think this short video will make you see things from our perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPm52rmKYI

I hope this clears things up and leads to greater understanding.

Did you just... Talk about protecting the "sanctity" of marriage and then post a video that is satire about people who are trying to protect the "sanctity" of marriage?

 

[Buizel91]

snip

Why don't you...Ya know argue? And say what you think is wrong with the statement? Whether you take it at face value or not, the point remains, claiming things as "unnatural" is flawed.

I'd rather watch the Spurs

The short answer: Humans are the only species that can conciously choose to be homo-erotic, and even then I believe it is a state of mind that, yes, you can be born with, but still, ultimately a choice. People who's predecessing family have despression will themselves have inclination toward having depression just like with any other hereditary condition, and I believe homo-sexuality is the same.

For someone who chooses the scientific over religion (not you particularily, just generally) they could agree that it is illogical to think that nature would purposefully design itself to not be able to reproduce, which is one of the (if not THE) driving goals of life.

Wrong, there are many cases of gay animals. For example meet the 2 gay Giraffes!


And for the record some Gay Lions.


Unnatural? Ha! Tell that to Nature.

 

[sinterklaas]

That which does not harm others, cannot be wrong.

Gay marriage means civil marriage, not marriage by church. No one is campaigning to force religions to marry homosexuals.

 

[darthzew]

Snip

Yes, I am in favor of gays having the right to marry. I am in favor of gays having all of the same rights granted to heterosexuals. Homosexuals are human beings. They should not be separate, they should be equal.

And on the point of self-harm... I have no desire to be rude or crass, but there's plenty of research to indicate that anal sex can be harmful. It carries a higher likelihood of disease, for instance. Further, that point of self-harm extends to my beliefs. Basically, I believe they'll spend eternity in hell. That's pretty harmful from where I stand.

 

[Sindaine]

Ever hear of a practice called 'jumping the broom'? Back when slave ownership was all good and dandy the slaveowners would let their slaves have a mock-ceremony where they jumped over a broomhandle instead of an actual church wedding. The message was that real weddings were for human beings; slaves were considered subhuman animals.

Civil unions are just jumping the broom given a shiny new coat of paint. In short, yes I support gay marriage, because I am not a terrible person.

 

[Strazdas]

I voted no. Not because i am agasint gay marriadge, but because i am agasint marriadge in general.

 

[darthzew]

Snip

In the last part of your quote, you asked if anything to back up my beliefs and you said that the Bible has been disproven. Yes, I do and no it hasn't. That's as far as I'm going in that line of thinking. It is not the point of the thread. I've derailed it enough as it is.

I have neither the time nor the desire to indulge you further. I have a lot of editing work to get done today and internet message boards are frankly at the bottom of my to do list. After this post, I'm bowing out of the discussion. The last word will be yours.

The ultimate point of your posts, I gathered, was that judging others is wrong. You take issue with the fact that I judge others. Fine. I say this now: I have a right to judge anyone I please. It is not a right given to me by the Bible, it is simply a natural right. You also have the right to judge others and I've seen very clearly that you exercise this right very liberally. You claim that judging others is wrong, yet you have done the very same thing to myself and others on this thread.

You have no more rights than I do. Homosexuals have no more rights than I do. We all have the same natural rights as human beings and I will fight for those rights.

 

[Richard Keohane]

People don't often understand what we mean when we say we're trying to protect the sanctity of marriage. I think this short video will make you see things from our perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJPm52rmKYI

I hope this clears things up and leads to greater understanding.

Did you just... Talk about protecting the "sanctity" of marriage and then post a video that is satire about people who are trying to protect the "sanctity" of marriage?

I did. I did indeed.

I feel like marriage as an institution isn't especially sanctified. Individual marriages deserve their own sanctity, but in truth the only people who can violate the sanctity of a marriage are the two people in it. I don't see how two men getting married to each could possibly violate your marriage.

If you get married, live 50 years with someone, grow old and die together, that right there is what makes marriage beautiful and sanctified. If you get married, start sleeping with other people, get caught and file for divorce, that makes a mockery of the institution. Neither of those things are gender dependent. I think gays and lesbians can do our institution of marriage proud by marrying and living long, beautiful lives together. And I think that many of them will fail and get divorced, just like us straight people.

 

[AwesomeNinjaPowers]

Yes. Let gay and lesbians marry who they want and be miserable just like all the hetro married couples out there.