Poll: Do you think Esports should be taken as serious as traditional sports?

[Giuglea]

I don't think any sport should be "taken seriously". My opinion is that all sports should be fun, not things you start punch ups and corporate scandals over.

nobody lives in an utopia...look what happened in bioshock from trying to achieve utopie)

 

[Wintermoot]

whe might as well take NASCAR seriously, games aren't sports! sports are things you get exercise with

 

[Verlander]

And dude.... everything interactive is hackable.

This statement is ignorant. E-sports participants have themselves and the software they use constantly surveyed the whole time they're playing, and it's very easy to see that they're hacking just by looking at them. No one would be dumb enough to risk getting forever disqualified from an international tournament that they qualified to.

Not as ignorant as the phrase "No one would be dumb enough to risk getting forever disqualified from an international tournament that they qualified to". If you honestly believe that, you need to get out into the open air a bit more and actually meet people-they ain't all honourable. Of course they would cheat, just like professional athletes who push their bodies and lives to the edge to compete, are found to be taking performance enhancing drugs. And THAT'S where sports differ from computer games. Someone may play games enough to compete, but they don't exactly exert any mental or physical attribute to do so

 

[Flames66]

I don't think any sport should be "taken seriously". My opinion is that all sports should be fun, not things you start punch ups and corporate scandals over.

nobody lives in an utopia...look what happened in bioshock from trying to achieve utopie)

I'm not sure exactly what happened, I still haven't managed to finish it. I got very frustrated shortly after helping what's his face complete his masterpiece and haven't gone back there since. I get your point though.

I personally have no interest in competitive sports or competitive vidya gaming. I'm just not a competitive person.

 

[ObsessiveSketch]

Video games are still too constrained by computations, and the notion of 'statistics'. In several games, actions are a direct result of a computer calculating hit/miss, catch/drop, or crit/nocrit formulas.

In case you haven't noticed, which you apparently haven't, games that are played competitively on a professional level has as few random elements as possible. Take StarCraft for example. No unit ever miss. If it fires its weapon, it will hit. And when it hits, it will do the same amount of damage every hit. A marine with 2 attack upgrades will always do 8 damage minus the armour of the target with every shot.
And there are no critical hits, and every map is mirrored.
In other words, everything comes down to your own tactics and skill as a player.
Nothing is chance.

Which would be why both my examples were from proven Esports such as Starcraft and Street Fighter. Micromanaging, snap-reaction times, and command inputs are what bridge sports and strategic games like CIV 5, chess, and D&D.

 

[Exterminas]

Yes.
I don't care for any kind of sport e- or not. But it is clear to me that "real" sport is a abitrary thing. Being good at soccer is no more usefull or no more an achievement than being good at starcraft. So why make a difference?

It is more useful becasue society has made it more useful. If you can make a living out of a skill, however arbitary or worthless some people judge it to be, then it clearly has value.

Huh, the ends justify the means ourdays? If society makes it profitable to work in a SS-Death-Troop does that make it a skill one should aspire to?

Of course sports have a financial value. But no value regarding societies developement. Not even a value regarding anyones well-being, because entertainment can be generated by any other mans just as well.

 

[DracoSuave]

The difference between 'sports' and 'esports' is based on cultural democracy.

More types of people are interested in physical sports than in video gaming. Physical sports are more electrifying to watch, and watching a video game isn't as visceral because whatever it is you're watching, you have no capability of being there to spectate.

It also comes down to marketability. People are willing to pay to go see their team play in football, baseball, basketball, or hockey. People are not willing to pay to watch a gameplay video. And yet both are available for free either by TV or by the internet.

So, no, e-sports should not be treated as seriously as other sports simply because they are not serious business. Sports are serious business. They make TONS of money for the companies that run the teams and for the leagues. Starcraft is only noteworthy because in one country it managed to beat out soccer. That's the extent of how serious e-sports is; in the country that made the game it isn't as popular as SOCCER. And soccer is not popular in the states.

That said, I support e-sports, because if people can get paid to do what they enjoy, and play any game at a high level beyond others, good for you. I also approve of pro-level Magic: The Gathering, and yes, the World Poker Tour. These things deserve coverage, but coverage in proportion to their marketability and appeal.

Which is to say... it ain't hockey. But it's better than cricket!

 

[Giuglea]

Yes.
I don't care for any kind of sport e- or not. But it is clear to me that "real" sport is a abitrary thing. Being good at soccer is no more usefull or no more an achievement than being good at starcraft. So why make a difference?

It is more useful becasue society has made it more useful. If you can make a living out of a skill, however arbitary or worthless some people judge it to be, then it clearly has value.

Huh, the ends justify the means ourdays? If society makes it profitable to work in a SS-Death-Troop does that make it a skill one should aspire to?

Of course sports have a financial value. But no value regarding societies developement. Not even a value regarding anyones well-being, because entertainment can be generated by any other mans just as well.

so u are stating that sports do not help human evolution..they just entertain us..true..u can also aspire to science art and lots of other things..which in fact help humanity...that is a heavy statement..

 

[theevilsanta]

1. "real" sports are taken way too seriously
2. sport = anything competitive that gives near equal conditions to each opponent and has clearly identifiable winners and losers (sorry figure skating - a judge won't cut it)
3. this thread isn't even about whether or not esports=sports. it's asking if they should be taken as seriously
4. most games are for relaxing. some games aren't. some games are for fair competition with other people
5. You really shouldn't comment or even vote on this thread if you haven't spent a few hours researching professional esports (we're talking SC, WC3, CS, DOTA, and Super Street Fighter. for those of you that didn't know. it's not CoD matches or whatever.)

Esports is growing, and it's going to continue growing. I don't think it will ever get as big as "real" sports, but it definitely is just as serious for the competitors and the fans. The best players earn six figure incomes and have real fan bases. Every counter argument I've read in this thread displays a clear lack of understanding about how real esports operate.

 

[Waddles]

No, they are much easier to cheat or to bug than normal smports, and are generally not very interesting to watch. I have to be honest, I can't see many people saying yes that aren't people who don't like normal sports

you cannot cheat in a competition..you obviously never seen an esport competition..and liking esports doesn`t mean you have to hate normal sports..as much as i love starcraft,i go out almost everyday to play basketball..

If there's a computer involved, it can be hacked and modified. End of. Anyway, my other point still stands, they just aren't an interesting spectator sport. The vast majority don't/won't watch them, which is why there's such a limited selection of sports that have exposure on television and suchlike

in pro gaming competitions players are aloud to bring only their keyboards mouses and headphones..the rest of the computer is provided by the organizer..unless they figured out how to hack a mouse to headshot for them, your point does not stand..and let me give you a good example of people watching starcraft..huskystarcraft `s channel on youtube is and professional sc commentator channel and has 150.000.000 views and growing fast..and that is only one example..machinima has even more views on othe game related shows..

Even discounting the countries that don't get youtube, that is such an insignificant number (especially when you consider re-views and curiosity views) Your argument doesn't stand. There is NO chance this will ever get taken as a serious sport, without even considering the perception of games in society. Put is this way- skateboarding and extreme sports have far more people with an invested interest, but the only exposure they get is when they ALL club together and form events like the X Games or Gravity Games. They have a television channel, but it supports all extreme sports, in which many fans have an invested interest. As for the larger sports, there is a notable difference-there is a physical attribute, that games do not require. There is a training that has uses outside of the sport itself. Don't try and throw things like chess at me either-when was the last time you watched chess on ESPN? It's not commonly considered a sport, they're considered "mind sports" and from what I'm understanding, you want games to be recognised at sports.

The games audience is too niche. Of all of the millions of people you can claim play games, very few of them are interested in watching games leagues. Sports however, have people who play, and those who don't, watching and supporting them. There is an emotional connection to real sports, that games just don't get. That, and all you need to be good at games is practice, and no exceptional amount of skill.

And dude.... everything interactive is hackable.

In all recognised Starcraft leagues (GSL, IEM for sc2, OSL, MSL, Dream League and Proleague for sc1)the players do not sit at home playing. They are in a central "stadium" either in a specially made booth with a referee standing literally on their shoulder or in an open lan setup which is clearly visible from all angles. They have multiple cameras on them. All equipment is checked over several times before the game begins and is commonly provided by the competition's governing body anyway i.e. you don't use your own stuff. Each game is joined by a referee observer who can see the first person view of the players, and recordings are made to further ensure no shenanigans. So no, you can't hack. This isn't like playing some random on the other side of the world on Xbox Live. These restrictions are not just for Starcraft either. IEM is a European tour and they have all these rules for Halo, Counter Strike, FIFA etc. Same goes for MLG in America and WCG worldwide.

As to the perception of games in society, which society are you talking about precisely? In Korea the fanclubs of players are in the hundreds of thousands. All the top internet searches are for Starcraft. Hell, even Parliament use it to explain military strategy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.247814-Korean-Ex-Defense-Minister-Says-Crisis-Isnt-StarCraft]. These players are revered much more than any other figures in the country. The OP mentioned HuskyStarcraft on Youtube, an American. He has been repeatedly ranked top 10 for most watched youtube channel weekly GLOBALLY. More people are playing games than ever before in Western countries as well, it isn't just an Asian gimmick.

No-one wants to watch? WCG in China last year had a packed stadium with over 20,000 people, which is about the same size as Lord's cricket ground. IEM in Europe regularly pulls in excess of 5000 [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddeDAnXW99o]. There are 2 regular TV stations in Korea that only show video games, there are THOUSANDS of shows and streams on the internet for various games. Sure watching games isn't as big as the English Premier League or National Football League yet but this stuff has only just started. The NASL, an American Starcraft 2 league has just been announced with a $400,000 first prize. This is slowly becoming big business.

You say esports have no physical element. These guys NEED gym training to do what they do. The average Korean Starcraft progamer has an apm of about 350. You try it. Grab your mouse. Click 6 times per second for half an hour without a break. Repeat this 15-20 times in one day, which they do for practice. Your arm will be fucked afterwards, I promise you.

And finally as to your assertion that no skill is required and it's only practice. This is absolutely hilarious. There are people in Starcraft 2 Battle.net with over 4000 games played and they are still in the bottom division. You need reflexes, good strategic thinking and blazingly fast, precise control to be successful in any popular esports game. Go download a pro brood war replay of Flash or Jaedong off Team Liquid and watch it from their first person view. Then come back and say that it takes no skill.

It is true that esports are not currently as big as "real" sports. It is unlikely that they will grow to be as big as the Superbowl, or the EPL, or the NBA. You however have completely written them off as having no market and no potential with no justification, and your arguments show that you quite clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Jaded Scribe]

Hell no.

e-Sports aren't sports by any means. They're not physical activities and I think the term used should be something like "competitive gaming".

sport: an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition.

then why are chess, darts, and poker considered sports?or nascar)

Well they aren't always. In fact I think Nascar is so silly, I don't even count it as a proper motor sport.

They're just completely different things. And it's a subjective matter what you want to call a sport. Whether the only requirements are "competitive, requires skill" or "physical, competitive, requires skill". Or "scaly, evil, breaths fire".

I agree that "sports" is a misnomer. Unfortunately, competitions involving mental agility don't have an over-arching term.

But the term "competitive gaming" will get even less respect than "e-sports". I have no problem taking it as seriously as a group of people chasing a ball around attempting to complete arbitrarily chosen tasks that have been given arbitrary meaning as being significant.

Just because it is not physical does not mean that it does not require a great amount of skill, stamina and agility. And there is a physical component as the speed at which you can physically react to what appears on the screen is important.

 

[radioactive lemur]

E-Sports should be taken with roughly the same level of seriousness as competitive eating and alcohol consumption. Sure it's kind of awesome and many people (including me) would watch it, but the bottom line is that none of this stuff (video games, alcohol, gluttony) is exactly good for you or should be widely popularized and encouraged. If pro video games payed the same as pro football, it would lead to a nationwide obesity epidemic. Young boys and girls should dream about being real athletes because if they fail to make it big (and they most likely will) at least they will have developed strong, healthy bodies. Real sports like football, MMA, weightlifting etc. are extremely beneficial to the body and mind in a way E-sports are not.

 

[Lyri]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

What?

Where did you hear this from, Idra could be broken in half by the wind like alot of them. They spend 12 hours every day practising, the foreigners wouldn't even learn Korean for 2 hours a day because it cut into the practice.

 

[jboking]

Taking sports seriously in the first place shouldn't be done. They are games, plain and simple. Sure, in the professional world, those games are preformed by some of the best people in that game, but it still just a game. Personally, I view taking sports(or esports) seriously the same way I view getting angry at video games. That view being, "It's silly/ridiculous, stop doing it."

As far as them being considered equal... I don't see why not. The only thing that might cause them to be considered unequal is that people are paid to play traditional sports professionally(and not just if they win) which I assume is because it's appealing to a larger demographic than those that find esports appealing.

 

[Giuglea]

E-Sports should be taken with roughly the same level of seriousness as competitive eating and alcohol consumption. Sure it's kind of awesome and many people (including me) would watch it, but the bottom line is that none of this stuff (video games, alcohol, gluttony) is exactly good for you or should be widely popularized and encouraged. If pro video games payed the same as pro football, it would lead to a nationwide obesity epidemic. Young boys and girls should dream about being real athletes because if they fail to make it big (and they most likely will) at least they will have developed strong, healthy bodies. Real sports like football, MMA, weightlifting etc. are extremely beneficial to the body and mind in a way E-sports are not.

thats why football players are one of the biggest thinkers in the world..sigh

 

[Giuglea]

pro SC gamers have to be fit..have physical training sessions..and they play at 300-500 actions per minute...that almost 10 actions per second..i think that involves a lot of thinking..just saying..

What?

Where did you hear this from, Idra could be broken in half by the wind like alot of them. They spend 12 hours every day practising, the foreigners wouldn't even learn Korean for 2 hours a day because it cut into the practice.

but is does he in any way look unfit..what did u expect??a 150 kilo meat head ready to tackle a small hill??do u think the snooker players such as O`Sullivan wouldn`t break in half by the wind...what about curling athletes?or darts extreme players...:|

 

[ResonanceSD]

I'm actually involved in the launch of a new, Australian eSports News website. as I'm fairy sure I can't just link to it here, PM me if you want the details We're growing fast!

 

[Giuglea]

I'm actually involved in the launch of a new, Australian eSports News website. as I'm fairy sure I can't just link to it here, PM me if you want the details We're growing fast!

why not?escapist magazine is all about spreading pop-culture..esports being a part of it..plus the escapist isn`t involved in esports so you wouldn`t harm them...so i think its fine to post your link..

 

[ResonanceSD]

I'm actually involved in the launch of a new, Australian eSports News website. as I'm fairy sure I can't just link to it here, PM me if you want the details We're growing fast!

why not?escapist magazine is all about spreading pop-culture..esports being a part of it..plus the escapist isn`t involved in esports so you wouldn`t harm them...so i think its fine to post your link..

Well then, it's www.esportsdaily.com.au

Check us out!