Poll: Does free-will exist?
- Thread starter Sewblon
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It doesn't matter whether you made a decision or not, or whether the outcome is predictable. I can say 'within four hours of my posting this comment, you will eat a jam sandwich', and you can decide whether to or not. Either way, my statement is either true or false, and it makes no sense to claim that the truth of a statement is altered depending on the time at which it is made. Someone who claimed on the 21st November 1963 what JFK would be shot the following day would be regarded, in hindsight, as having been correct all along. One wouldn't say 'that prediction was not correct, but became correct the day after'. It was only shown to have been a truthful statement. In the same way, any prediction is either true or false at all times, independent of whether it has yet been shown to be one or the other.Generic Gamer said:
As for its implications regarding free will, it doesn't have any as far as I can see. The fact that one's decisions may be either inherently predictable (in the case of a completely deterministic model of reality) or essentially random (and so even less out of one's control) doesn't really have anything to do with whether those decisions are actually made. If you don't eat a jam sandwich, it'll still be because you decided not to. It was just always true that you were going to decide not to.
So I'll say we do have free will. I don't think, though, that we have control. We seem to be looking for some kind of supernatural 'consciousness' character with the ability to act on the physical self while itself remaining independent of physical law. That doesn't really seem very plausible to me. So, choice exists in the sense that any qualia exist - as a subjective component of conscious experience. You do make choices, but anyone who takes that to mean there is some secret magical version of themselves bending the laws of the universe to suit their somehow-completely-independent 'decisions' is probably going to be disappointed when they die and the spoilers are revealed.
Free will exists, We make choices every day, and the choices we made in the past shape today.
I chose to ask my girlfriend out, thus, she is my girlfriend today.
I chose to get a job, thus, I have money.
I chose to drink that can of pepsi, thus, I have to pee.
... And i think I got to end that here...
I chose to ask my girlfriend out, thus, she is my girlfriend today.
I chose to get a job, thus, I have money.
I chose to drink that can of pepsi, thus, I have to pee.
... And i think I got to end that here...
Lol, I was going to type something like this but involving hypnotoad in some way.Rex Dark said:
Schopenhauer said that the most radical of freedoms (I do whatever I want and I am whom ever I want) it's actually a "deatachment" of the most purely determinism (I am who I am cause I have no choice) so, acording to that guy our free will is purely based on the way we are so we are not actually free, cause we depend on other factors to act the way we act; kind of a mess.
It depends on how you picture the concept of time. If there is only a present and no past or future, then there can be no predestination since there is no future. However, since math can determine how things will work from the tiniest particle to the grandest events, what may happen should technically be mathematically predictable (it would just be almost impossible to apply mathematic principles of physics at such extreme levels).
If there is a past or future, then that in itself should suggest that there is predestination.
I guess what I'm saying is if you want to decide if there is free will or not, you have to consider what "time" really is.
I personally believe in free will, since I only believe that there is no time, only the present.
If there is a past or future, then that in itself should suggest that there is predestination.
I guess what I'm saying is if you want to decide if there is free will or not, you have to consider what "time" really is.
I personally believe in free will, since I only believe that there is no time, only the present.
You didn't read the OP did you....Generic Gamer said:
OT: I've been studying Philosophy for a while, but I haven't learned about this yet. We did touch on this with the idea of God section of the course, and are scheduled to start 'Free will and determinism' next term. It does sound interesting, although I don't like the idea of having no free will myself...
I'll not say any more apart from this fun fact - A man in America once avoided the Death Penalty by using the argument that, as we have no free will, he was going to end up murdering either way.
good point I have wanderd about it myself too. I personaly think freewil doesnt truly exist because we cant go back to a choice to change it
heredity and environmentGeneric Gamer said:
you thinke you have free will but all your actions are determined due to heredity and environment.
if somebody knew all about you, they would know what you would do in any situation, before you knew it. but the illusion of free will is a nice thing
I am of two minds on this subject because although I believe in free will, I have had dreams that became reality in the course of time (possibly predetermined?) I do not believe that science can reliably prove this theory because they always give the subject limitations to what they can do. In Gaz's video the scientist speaks of the conscious and the unconscious mind deciding together what the interviewer's decision would be, but they only give him two choices - probably yes and no. Binary choice is already predetermined, and doomed to simplicity, the lack of choice in the test is not based on reality so I do not know how it could possibly be useful data.
For example: You meet someone, doesn't matter if they are a man or woman, gay or straight, white or black - well you get the picture.
Do you:
A - Ignore them, they are a stranger.
B - Say Hello
C - Actively move away from them, they look creepy.
D - Walk up and push them as hard as you can.
E - Give them a kiss/hug.
F - Dance like a Leprechaun around them in circles screaming, "Sausages!" in an Irish accent with limbs flailing in all directions.
G - They look like an easy mark, try to pick their pocket.
Every single option here is predetermined by me, and is therefore is invalid proof like that of the scientists' test. This test is limited by a factor of seven different options, and some of these options would probably not occur to a lot of people to do. Alternatively, people might have millions of different choices to make when meeting a stranger, and mapping that on a computer is unlikely to be possible in the course of time. Some are more likely than others to be acted upon, dancing like a Leprechaun may not be considered by many people, but the option is still on the table. The free-will to execute such a ridiculous activity, or vicious one like pushing or stealing from someone is a choice any person can make, but it is always their choice to make. People always have circumstances/influences that are predetermined, pulling them towards or away from these seven options but they don't always have to do what is normal/natural.
I think GG has hit the nail on the head here, the theory is deliberately unprovable, or at least only provable through circular logic that states since you made x decision instead of y or z, you were always going to make x decision.Generic Gamer said:
For example: You meet someone, doesn't matter if they are a man or woman, gay or straight, white or black - well you get the picture.
Do you:
A - Ignore them, they are a stranger.
B - Say Hello
C - Actively move away from them, they look creepy.
D - Walk up and push them as hard as you can.
E - Give them a kiss/hug.
F - Dance like a Leprechaun around them in circles screaming, "Sausages!" in an Irish accent with limbs flailing in all directions.
G - They look like an easy mark, try to pick their pocket.
Every single option here is predetermined by me, and is therefore is invalid proof like that of the scientists' test. This test is limited by a factor of seven different options, and some of these options would probably not occur to a lot of people to do. Alternatively, people might have millions of different choices to make when meeting a stranger, and mapping that on a computer is unlikely to be possible in the course of time. Some are more likely than others to be acted upon, dancing like a Leprechaun may not be considered by many people, but the option is still on the table. The free-will to execute such a ridiculous activity, or vicious one like pushing or stealing from someone is a choice any person can make, but it is always their choice to make. People always have circumstances/influences that are predetermined, pulling them towards or away from these seven options but they don't always have to do what is normal/natural.