Poll: Does the USA Overly Abuse the Power it has?

[Eclectic Dreck]

Yes all the super powers have.
Imagine if the Queen took back her power from the CommonWealth.
Or if China showed their true militial potential (It Will Happen)
Over 1 BILLION possible Conscripts that dont necessarily need Guns.
Or If North Korea fessed up on their number of Nukes.

I'd like to note that, in a total war scenario, while the army China can field would be enormous, it would be far shy of 1 billion people. The total number suitable for military purposes is in fact less than 300 million, and while that is a terrifying figure, one has to consider that numbers alone will not win a war and even people in China would start to complain when the bodycount reaches the tens of millions. Worse still, one has to consider the logistical ramifications of deploying 300 million people. Even if poorly armed 300 million people will consume a tremendous ammount of ammunition, fuel and what have you - the entire economy of China would have to be diverted towards the war effort and while this could be done in China for a time, it certainly won't be able to last long (again, combine the tremendous body count with sudden shortages of damn near everything at home and people will tend to complain pretty quickly). As such, while china can field somewhere beween 5 and 10 men for every one that the US can field, that numerical advantage is less meaningful than it would seem.

Besides, unless someone deals with the problem of nuclear weapons, embarking on a total war between two nuclear powers is simply going to result in a nuclear exchange, and things would need to get fairly desperate to risk that.

 

[Compatriot Block]

Does reek of kiddy trolling IMHO but in the interest of mature adult conversation.

No, the USA does not abuse its power, as the most powerful it gets to dictate its own actions. Compared to the history of the nations critiquing the USA the yanks are unblemished virginal saints in the being assholes department and frankly if foreign powers kept their bloody noses out the debacle of Vietnam and the false start of the Gulf War would have been short painfree military excursions.

The Iraq war was a direct effect of the Americans being stopped at the border in the Gulf War. If they were allowed to complete their objectives the transition would have been much faster and more succinct.

Typically people railing against the 'industrial corporate imperialism' of the US are middleclass liberal halfwits with the intellectual understanding of a hatpin. They know little history and less politics. They are the kind of people that think things can be acheived without any military might. Ironically they are also the people responsible for the American withdraw in Somali which is why that country is so bollocksed at the moment. Because they dont understand people are hairless monkeys that will rape, kill and plunder the moment your back is turned. Much like a forum the vocal minority saying the countries fine, has no REALISTIC bearing on the actual condition of the country. See current Iraq occupation.

Summary - The US is the biggest dog in the park it can bite any other dog it wants, whos going to stop it. In the real world might makes right, morally and ethically is irrelevant in world politics (See Nazi Germany & the USSR) the US didnt go to war because of attrocities it went to war because it was attacked.

You make a lot of good points. I honestly wasn't trying to troll, I just wanted some more detailed arguments than I'd get in another thread. Also, I am an American citizen, so I'm not trying to start a hate thread.

 

[PlasticTree]

Eh, it does what any country would do if it had the power and influence America has. America seeks to protect its own interests, and often, given how far-reaching those interests are, this leads to conflict with other nations.

Yes.

 

[gaymathman]

I think that in general the US isn't too bad; they tend to be stupid rather than evil, although the second Iraqi invasion was a complete cockup, although Saddam Hussein was a bastard. Whether they were actually stupid enough to believe they were doing the right thing is another matter entirely, as American inteligence was in total disarray after the destruction of the world trade center. Ousting Saddam isn't a valid reason; Saudi Arabia and Sudan are/were in worse shape than Iraq. The Bush Doctrine of preemptive warfare was definitely a drastic abuse of power, and resulted in a horifficly planned war with no end in sight that's caused substantial damage to Iraq, even after Gates' effective strategies. They need to gather up some balls and take might to situations within their own borders that need fixing, having healthcare that is more than four times as expensive as in Britan that provides inferior coverage to fewer people, their educational system, financial system (worse off than most of the Western world), infrastructure, debt, social problems (teen pregnancy, divorce, unemployment(not quite Spain, but still), lack of foreign language knowledge despite a Spanish speaking population that will soon be a majority, rediculous nativist additudes towards immigration (oh, you have a phd in engineering and math? Sorry, only a few thousand visas for those people))...

 

[gaymathman]

Also, I believe that their electronic defenses are not all that good; I remember reading about how NSA analysts were able to break past US Air Force security measures more than 60% of the time in a wargame... although the NSA is THE authority on cryptography and computer security; the US has kind of taken the reigns from Britan as the country with the most important contributions to the mathematics behind computers.

 

[gaymathman]

Also, they should probably be engaging in covert cyber attacks on the Chinese government; the chinese have infiltrated several government networks pertaining to Tibet to try and affect Tibetean politics, and there is obviously the great firewall of china..

 

[Agayek]

Eh, it does what any country would do if it had the power and influence America has. America seeks to protect its own interests, and often, given how far-reaching those interests are, this leads to conflict with other nations.

Yes, America oversteps its bounds at times (Iraq comes to mind), but I think it's primarily due to a zealous sense of superiority, rather than an intentionally arrogant or aggressive demeanor.

Fix't.

I quite disagree, as a matter of fact. As an American, I do not see myself as inherently superior to any other person of any other nationality, nor do I see my country as inherently superior. It simply happens to be the most powerful at the present time in history.

I have to disagree with your disagreement of my fixing of the previous poster's post. Matter of fact, as an American, I can say that this country sees itself as divinely endowed with a transcendence over any other country or people in the world today. And as outlandish as my claim was, my observation would be as valid as yours. It's a matter of which collective has the louder voice, and that voice tends to be the kind that gathers around city plazas bearing signs announcing that our own president is a godless, dirty Muslim. And that Muslims are godless and dirty. But I love you guys, go base-8 numeric systems and all that.

I have to disagree with you disigreeing with his disagreement of you fixing the preivious poster's post.

As an american i do not feel, nor am i, superior to any one nationaly or internationaly.

I disagree with all disagreements above, and preemptivly disagree with disagreers what disagree with me in future disagreements.
I'd also like to complain about the amount of complaints on this thread.

I disagree with your disagreement with the disagreements above, and I especially disagree with your disagreement with me and any future disagreementers, and I most especially disagree with any further disagreements, but especially with the first disagreements.


And now, after untangling that sentence that makes no sense, I have to say that America is what every world super power has been throughout the history of forever. Like it or not, people with power will abuse that power. It's not an American thing, it's a human thing.

 

[Aardvark Soup]

It certainly did during the Bush adminstration, with the whole 'invade countries without UN consent' and 'bring torcher back to a civilised society'-thing. With Obama as president, I don't think that really is the case anymore though.

 

[Matronadena]

meh.. the US, has.. the UK has, Russia has, Rome did, Egypt did, Persia did, Alexander's Greece did. Every nation/culture who has reached the point of " top dogs" in the history of human society has let it's power and influence get a little carried away, and abusive. Granted that the motivation behind it, and intentions differ, some being more aggressive purely for the sake of power, some more out of self survival.

so really one can't just pick on the U.S alone, they just fall into a pattern thats gone on for thousands of years.

 

[soren7550]

I say no, because if we were overly abusing our power, we would have nuked Iraq, Afghanistan and any other nation that even looks at us funny until their surfaces were turned to glass.

Also, if we were over using our power, why would we be trying to help everyone all the damn time?

 

[Compatriot Block]

For the record, I was not trying to imply anything in the OP. I tried to ask as unbiased as possible.

 

[MiserableOldGit]

.

 

[MiserableOldGit]

Eh, it does what any country would do if it had the power and influence America has. America seeks to protect its own interests, and often, given how far-reaching those interests are, this leads to conflict with other nations.

Yes, America oversteps its bounds at times (Iraq comes to mind), but I think it's primarily due to a zealous sense of superiority, rather than an intentionally arrogant or aggressive demeanor.

Fix't.

I quite disagree, as a matter of fact. As an American, I do not see myself as inherently superior to any other person of any other nationality, nor do I see my country as inherently superior. It simply happens to be the most powerful at the present time in history.

I have to disagree with your disagreement of my fixing of the previous poster's post. Matter of fact, as an American, I can say that this country sees itself as divinely endowed with a transcendence over any other country or people in the world today. And as outlandish as my claim was, my observation would be as valid as yours. It's a matter of which collective has the louder voice, and that voice tends to be the kind that gathers around city plazas bearing signs announcing that our own president is a godless, dirty Muslim. And that Muslims are godless and dirty. But I love you guys, go base-8 numeric systems and all that.

I have to disagree with you disigreeing with his disagreement of you fixing the preivious poster's post.

As an american i do not feel, nor am i, superior to any one nationaly or internationaly.

I disagree with all disagreements above, and preemptivly disagree with disagreers what disagree with me in future disagreements.
I'd also like to complain about the amount of complaints on this thread.

I disagree with your disagreement with the disagreements above, and I especially disagree with your disagreement with me and any future disagreementers, and I most especially disagree with any further disagreements, but especially with the first disagreements.


And now, after untangling that sentence that makes no sense, I have to say that America is what every world super power has been throughout the history of forever. Like it or not, people with power will abuse that power. It's not an American thing, it's a human thing.

I agree

 

[chronobreak]

A lot of threads end up devolving into bitter arguments about this

So your answer to this is to give it its own thread? Come on, man.

Using your power and clout is not abusing it, that's what it's there for. All nations weild their power to the fullest extent, especially during times of war. Also, we use a lot of the power we have for good, which people seem to forget. Peacekeeping, foreign aid, we help the rest of the world way more than they help us, and get shit on for it. Wonderful.

 

[chefassassin2]

No, America does not abuse its power. It's acting in exactly the manner a bunch of boorish, selfish, corrupt nincompoops should act.

Hey, I live in America and I have to disagree!! And by disagree I mean completely agree. I myself don't consider myself to be one, but as a whole, I belive we are a bunch of nincompoops. Hoping things get better before we completely mess up, I stay hopeful.

 

[CrustyMedic]

I think the US is like a big brother you love to death, even though you know he's going to you a slap up side the head every once in a while.

 

[SilentHunter7]

Also, I believe that their electronic defenses are not all that good; I remember reading about how NSA analysts were able to break past US Air Force security measures more than 60% of the time in a wargame... although the NSA is THE authority on cryptography and computer security; the US has kind of taken the reigns from Britan as the country with the most important contributions to the mathematics behind computers.

Having first hand experience working with the US Air Force, I think that the Air Force top brass mostly consists of guys like the Norman Dike from Band of Brothers. It's the only explanation for some of the half-assed things that go on there. If I were Obama, I'd fire every one of them.

 

[LeeHarveyO]

America? As in the two continents (North and South) comprising of several nations, one of which is the United States thereof?

Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

It is funny sometimes, the rest of the world thinks that the citizens of the United States have any say over the actions of the United States government. Oh, we choose who makes the "decisions", but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the one who ultimately make the decisions.

A brief, very loose description of American "outside" history:
For about a century and one half, the United States tried to stay out of other countries' business. Sure, it would fight for more land or amongst itself, but generally it go beyond things that directly effected the nation at large. Then this great depression hit and things started to suck for the United States. Things started to suck everywhere. One European nation decided that the best way to get out of depression was to go to war with everyone else, so they grabbed some friends and started on their merry way. It worked. So much that the other nations of Europe started to realize they couldn't stop it. They pleaded with the States to help, but the States had problems of it's own. Finally, just as it was almost over for Europe, the States thought, "hey, maybe this war stuff will help fix our depression problem". It did. The United States helped the "good guys" beat the "bad guys" and everyone was happy. Except that first country who found itself in a worse state then before and eventually pretty much the same thing happened all over again. The United States realized something, this war stuff really worked for them. Other nations figured out that the United States was pretty good at this war stuff and was willing to help out. Soon a couple nations over in Asia were having troubles, then some in the middle east. Sides kept switching but the United States tended to win no matter what because war was good for their economy, even if they were perpetually losing the actual wars. Then, everyone pretty much started to get along, for the most part. The United States realized something, they were nothing without war to fuel their economy. So they started picking fights, generally fights that were "worthy", but not exactly necessary. Then others started picking fights with them and the United States was like "why not?". Now the US is just revisiting old stomping grounds that they didn't quite finish off properly the last time.

In short, the United States became the world police, mostly because the world asked for it. The problem is, the United States became dependent on it, and of late doesn't know what to do about it.

That's my biased opinion at half past midnight where most of my history classes escape me.

That must have been very well thought out, and I do loosely agree with you on that.