Poll: Downloadable Content Delivery vs. Physical Boxed Media

[Coldie]

The used market is not piracy and neither is the rental market. We are just too different in our views to see any common ground in this area but that strong supporters of DD and haters of the used market are the same, is telling.

Yes, you are absolutely right. The used game market is worse than that thing that is traditionally defined as piracy, because it actually makes publishers lose real sales, as opposed to alleged loss of hypothetical sales in the "regular" free-loader pirate crowd. And there are even people that actually defend the Space Used Game Pirates while at the same time criticizing the free-booters!

Oh, and what exactly is it telling? I'm quite curious now

 

[Coldie]

Now used games are worse than piracy? LOL.

What is telling is that the same people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy. Of course, DD is a rental market of it's own.

I'm glad that my argument in defense of the developer's interests is amusing.

So, "supporters of DD and haters of the used market are the same" tells you that "people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy". Why yes, that's the exact same thing phrased slightly differently.

You have found a correlation with one data point on the graph and with no new information derived from said correlation, however statistically questionable it would be. I'm sorry, but I don't see the point you are trying to make here.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

Why are there so many threads on this topic? Oh well. I prefer boxed mostly.

 

[feeback06]

Mixed up myself. I prefer to own most older games, which is why I never use emulators or the Virtual Console. But I really like steam and if a game is DLC only, that's fine too.

 

[veloper]

Now used games are worse than piracy? LOL.

What is telling is that the same people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy. Of course, DD is a rental market of it's own.

I'm glad that my argument in defense of the developer's interests is amusing.

So, "supporters of DD and haters of the used market are the same" tells you that "people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy". Why yes, that's the exact same thing phrased slightly differently.

You have found a correlation with one data point on the graph and with no new information derived from said correlation, however statistically questionable it would be. I'm sorry, but I don't see the point you are trying to make here.

My point is exactly what I have said, twice. If you still can't understand it, I don't know how else to explain it.

Is any other used market akin to piracy or theft or is that just reserved for the "special" game industry?

That guy made one good point and then messed up the rest of his argument, but it's was a valid point that deserves a better explanation. So here it is:

The development of new games is only funded if the publishers can expect a profit, usually based on previous sales data.

Only first sales make a profit for the publisher. Piracy may be illegal and resale perfectly legit, but the effect is the same.

Piracy doesn't hurt anyone directly; it just doesn't contribute.
Buying some new and pirating the rest promotes the quality of games you did buy and is better for the industry than spending the same amount of money on getting everything used.

If you still want to play the game, but you don't want to spend more money for a new one, you might aswell pirate the game.

It's not hard to understand then why publishers and studios prefered it if certain shops didn't redirect customers from new games to used ones.

 

[Imp Poster]

I am old school. I like it in a box. My dial up can't handle the Gigs.

 

[Coldie]

My point is exactly what I have said, twice. If you still can't understand it, I don't know how else to explain it.

Is any other used market akin to piracy or theft or is that just reserved for the "special" game industry?

Your statistically unfounded generalization does not have a conclusion and, therefore, meaning.

I can't think of any at this moment. Movies have their theater runs and DVD royalties, music has concerts and whatnot. Books do have some beef with libraries offering everything free of charge, so they likely do have some similar problems, although I'm not involved in that industry, so I cannot make a comment without doing some research. TV and Radio have ads, periodic print media run ads, as well. All patents have royalties, naturally. What other forms of Intellectual Property are there?

So yeah, software market is pretty "special". It's very large and moves very fast (that is, soft tends to become outdated oh so soon). New sales is the prime way for software to make money, with subscriptions being a second major player for some kinds of programs. Then there are ads, but game publishers are just starting to look at those.
Used sales make no money whatsoever and neither do torrents nor rentals. Most sales are in the beginning of a program's lifecycle and normally they drop off afterwards and if you don't sell, you're probably done for.

Digital downloads are a great way out of the retail bog that games have buried themselves in. It's time they joined the vast libraries of non-game software there.

P.S. 10 minutes to BlizzCon opening ceremony!

 

[veloper]

Read a book and make sure you burn it before someone else reads it! You guys are brilliant!

Trade it with someone for another book (or just give it away if you just want to get rid of it). Photocopying the book is not a practical option here.

What applies to used games, does apply to used CDs and DVDs aswell: skip the middleman.

These used media can simply be copied and the money saved on the middleman can be used for much better purposes.

 

[JeanLuc761]

In regards to the above posts, I refuse to be guilted into believing that the used game market is stealing while all the other used markets are perfectly fine. It's publishers being greedier than ever, simple as that. They already got the money off that disc, now they want more.

In regards to the OP: I generally prefer physical copies but given Steam allows me to back up any game I purchase directly onto a DVD, that's basically the best option I have right now.

 

[JeanLuc761]

In regards to the above posts, I refuse to be guilted into believing that the used game market is stealing while all the other used markets are perfectly fine. It's publishers being greedier than ever, simple as that. They already got the money off that disc, now they want more.

Exactly.

What is this obsession with gamers being concerned about and trying to increase the bottom line of greedy corporations whilst being quick to take away freedoms of themselves and other gamers?

It's not even just that. The first sale doctrine states that after you've bought something, you have the legal right to re-sell it so long as you don't make an unauthorized copy. It's perfectly legal and it has been for 102 years.

Why should videogames suddenly be an exception to that?

 

[veloper]

Now used games are worse than piracy? LOL.

What is telling is that the same people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy. Of course, DD is a rental market of it's own.

I'm glad that my argument in defense of the developer's interests is amusing.

So, "supporters of DD and haters of the used market are the same" tells you that "people who support giving complete control to publishers (via DD) are the same people who think that the used and rental markets are akin to piracy". Why yes, that's the exact same thing phrased slightly differently.

You have found a correlation with one data point on the graph and with no new information derived from said correlation, however statistically questionable it would be. I'm sorry, but I don't see the point you are trying to make here.

My point is exactly what I have said, twice. If you still can't understand it, I don't know how else to explain it.

Is any other used market akin to piracy or theft or is that just reserved for the "special" game industry?

That guy made one good point and then messed up the rest of his argument, but it's was a valid point that deserves a better explanation. So here it is:

The development of new games is only funded if the publishers can expect a profit, usually based on previous sales data.

Only first sales make a profit for the publisher. Piracy may be illegal and resale perfectly legit, but the effect is the same.

Piracy doesn't hurt anyone directly; it just doesn't contribute.
Buying some new and pirating the rest promotes the quality of games you did buy and is better for the industry than spending the same amount of money on getting everything used.

If you still want to play the game, but you don't want to spend more money for a new one, you might aswell pirate the game.

It's not hard to understand then why publishers and studios prefered it if certain shops didn't redirect customers from new games to used ones.

I do not agree that stealing and buying used have the same effect. In order for there to be used copy it had to be bought new. Also, buying used allows people who cannot buy new (for a variety of reasons including games being out of print) to still play and that increases the user base of a paticular fanchise/developer.

If a person buys Oblivion used and liked it, then they may buy Fallout 3 on day one (new) because they like Bethesda and they may buy ES V on day one as well.

In other words, for one copy of the game, they have gained two or more chances to gain fans who will buy their future products.

As does piracy. It let's people play those games if they can't buy new (because it's either out of print or too expensive).
So someone pirates Oblivion, starts to like Beth somehow and then maybe decides to buy FO3.

It is the same concept as Microsoft giving discounts for Office for students, it's to get them hooked on it so they will buy the full version later.

Game companies (like any other industry) deserve to get paid once per copy. Nothing more. They are not special.

If they sold one copy, they wouldn't be in the business and nolonger make any new games. Nobody deserves anything, but the interest in the matter of the parties involved is clear.