Poll: DRM and the complainers

[incal11]

Because of the opinions expressed by some here,
steam strikes me as a hyped form of DRM which somehow gained fans.

 

[hellthins]

Because of DRM I'm about to lose my ability to play my legal copy of Spore without going out and pirating the damn thing. I'm losing my saves anyways in spite of the fact all my other games will gladly let me at least keep my saves.

That being said, I do have a love for Steam since it provides a number of good services on top of protecting games intelligently by restricting the only thing they really can restrict, multiplayer.

 

[incal11]

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence, restricting multiplayer doesn't sounds good.

There's no such thing as intelligent restricing or protecting there ;
look at what the music industry is doing , steam is just not as good right now.

Even if I don't want their services , or does not need them , they are still imposing them on me .
So by loving steam , you're getting across the message that steam is "good enough";
my problem is that steam is by no mean "good enough" , if I have bad dialup I'm screwed , even if I buy a physical copy , and that's only the start .

For curiosity's sake , since there's suposedly no limitation on the number of installs;
could one install his game on a friend's pc using his steam account , then the friend can play it as much as he likes ?

There is NO right DRM.

 

[fix-the-spade]

For curiosity's sake , since there's suposedly no limitation on the number of installs;
could one install his game on a friend's pc using his steam account , then the friend can play it as much as he likes ?

Theoretically yes, you could install a game on someone else's PC using your account, then they would be able to play it for free.
The rub is that the two of you would not be able to play the game at the same time. Steam attaches games to accounts rather than to hardware, so you would both have to log into the same account to play the game. Steam does not allow accounts to be used in more than one location at any one time.

If the other person used their account to sign in, the game would come up on Steam games list as installed but not playable. They would have to pay for it to gain access with their own account, clever buggers Valve.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I have no quarrel with the principles of DRM, but rather in the application and execution of it.

If an illegal product is better than real thing because the real thing treats you like a criminal then people are going to go for the illegal version.

Well, some people will go for the illegal version. Some will still buy legit. Some, like me, will have nothing to do with either.

I agree. I don't like DRM at all, but I would be prepared to live with it if it was actually implimented with some sanity. Look at the Spore fiasco with SecuROM. There is a MASSIVE difference between a CD key trying to authenticate from 3 different continents in a week and the same IP trying to authenticate once every few years. SecuROM makes no such distinctions. If you need to install Spore, for whatever reason, more than three times you will need to buy a new copy.

And this was the most pirated game of the year too, great job EA. You antagonized your own consumers and no doubt encouraged a lot of the piracy that Spore suffered.

 

[tikiwargod]

The problem is that "attempting" is the key word. Installing occasionally computer crashing programs on to ones PC without the users consent is just irritating.

The pirates don't seem to mind it very much judging by often Spore was pirated.

Whitout the user's consent? It's in the terms of agreement which you consent to so it is with user consent.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

The problem is that "attempting" is the key word. Installing occasionally computer crashing programs on to ones PC without the users consent is just irritating.

The pirates don't seem to mind it very much judging by often Spore was pirated.

Whitout the user's consent? It's in the terms of agreement which you consent to so it is with user consent.

Actually in the case of spore the don't even mention SecuRom by name nor the 3 install limit in it's EULA or anywhere else. So yes, the fuckers install it without consent.

 

[tikiwargod]

OH, i didn't know that, every other game mentions DRM in the license agreement if it's present but I guess EA is just weird that way. I already knew it was going to be there though because they made it a huge deal so it's already known that DRM is there and the user can decide if he wants it or not.

 

[Spartan Bannana]

There's nothing wrong with protecting your material, DRM just does it in incredibly annoying ways.

 

[Nazulu]

Well aslong as they don't put the DRM on any games I'm interested in, I couldn't care. I noticed EA were idiots as soon as they made the Generals update, I haven't even imagined getting any other EA games.

 

[NeedAUserName]

I still don't fully understand what DRM is...

 

[JediMB]

Theoretically yes, you could install a game on someone else's PC using your account, then they would be able to play it for free.
The rub is that the two of you would not be able to play the game at the same time. Steam attaches games to accounts rather than to hardware, so you would both have to log into the same account to play the game. Steam does not allow accounts to be used in more than one location at any one time.

Not entirely true.

Last time I checked, letting Steam create a shortcut for the game (and having your client set to automatic login) lets you play the game even if the computer can't find an Internet connection at the moment. Of course it's only useful with singleplayer games, but that's usually what i stick with.

This isn't recommended if you play a game with achievements, though, since those won't be saved from the offline game. (Noticed that when my brother logged onto my Steam account while I was playing Portal. >_>)

 

[thiosk]

Its this secuROM and that ilk I take offense to. Things that install themselves on your computer and monitor your activity, im not sure if thats securom, but one of them does. I don't appreciate having to jump through hoops to reinstall software I went and purchased. I had a game disk by a now-defunct company go bad, unable to tell the disk is legit anymore. Simply spits it out saying insert correct disk.

Spore is a good cliche example of what I hate in DRM. I don't mind the style of needing the CD in the drive, but its still really annoying, when the above happens. What do you do when something like this happens? Crack the game of course, and that makes me feel like a criminal, even though its like cracking open my home safe. And theres the ownership issue! As a result, steam is my favorite ever, since im always online especially.

I will be doing most of my game purchase via steam for the forseeable future, as I really appreciate the style, method, stability (something it didn't have years back) and SPEED of distribution. I purchased my first gift via steam and bro had it running in less than an hour. And I also appreciate that with the valve software, if I install l4d for instance by disk, its now on steam so I can redownload it without needing the disk anymore. I wish all games distributed via steam interlocked into the distribution system in this way. Maybe they do, I just don't know it.

 

[incal11]

I'd love to still be able to get a physical copy of a new game that has no drm whatsoever

I am not always online so what happen to my right of playing hl2 on a pc I leave not connected for a long time? all of a sudden I can't play ?
Big deal , you say , reinstall it ; dammit , but I shouldn't have to reinstall it if there's nothing wrong...
I would agree to publisher having to protect their works ;
just not with DRMs,
and almost all games on steam are pirated already .

You have reasons for liking steam ; but what you are liking is the sugar coating around the shit-pill!

Let's say that in ten years (a very long time for the video game industry) steam goes bust ...
What happen to all your "purchased" games ?

I don't get why I have to repeat that ; it's very well known.
Yet you steam lovers manage to forget it because steam = valve !

You can imagine what I am thinking of you.

 

[dekkarax]

I would agree to publisher having to protect their works ;
just not with DRMs

I think you have misunderstood what DRM is, it isn't just stuff like secuROM, it's also things like cd keys and copy-protection; a game without DRM would be extremely easy to pirate.

My opinion on DRM is, while some is necessary, it can be unfair. However, I would never pirate a game, restrictive DRM or not. I judge games by there merits, not by DRM.

 

[Iori Branford]

It's not copy protection in itself that bugs me. It's protection mechanisms that can wreck my hardware or take my game away from me if I can't uninstall properly (because of hardware failure or whatever else). Imagine a game doing both -- presto, a perfect scam.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm all for whoever protecting their property and obviously sales, but limiting the installs of a game you bought is ridiculous. Steam seems to have a better idea with the valve games, locking your game to an account making you keep the game, but you can download the game (as many times as you want) on any computer and play. Heck even if you buy a game in a store it still works the same as downloading it. The only real problem is as incal11 said, if you're not connected to the internet you might be boned, then again most valve games are multiplayer only soooo...

 

[Shade Jackrabbit]

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion in form of opinions, but here is an interesting related read: http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html

 

[incal11]

I would agree to publisher having to protect their works ;
just not with DRMs

I think you have misunderstood what DRM is, it isn't just stuff like secuROM, it's also things like cd keys and copy-protection; a game without DRM would be extremely easy to pirate.

My opinion on DRM is, while some is necessary, it can be unfair. However, I would never pirate a game, restrictive DRM or not. I judge games by there merits, not by DRM.

I know what I am talking about.
It's a matter of opinion , but I think you're wrong , calling copying for strictly personal use "pirating".

A game without DRM or securom would still get all the money it deserves (stingy people nonwithstanding), maybe more since it means overall less hassle ; again , look at the music industry now.

I want my right to make a backup copy !!!

If I'm not connected to the internet and my CD is broken , what am I suposed to do ?
Yes , read maybe , or go out ; be pissed at valve and steam also goes in the list.
It's not like I want to share it on the internet , others do that , but not me !

Also when I say authors should protect their work , I mean , of course , that they should patent their idea ; so not anyone can sell new copies of the game without giving them their cut.

 

[Zer_]

Snip

You can play steam games offline. I don't know why you'd want to. All you have to do is install a steam game on a laptop, go to a hotspot, activate and set it to Offline mode. But again, I digress, if you're playing online to begin with, there's no real reason to fault Steam for this.

Updates on Steam are all free, Valve updates their games often, and it's quick.

Also it is impossible to create a program like Steam in a way that it will never crash. Steam is a program that interacts with the games it runs, and these interactions usually run smoothly, but sometimes they can simply disagree with each other. One good example was in Call of Duty 4, the Steam community thing would cause the game to crash. Fortunately that was patched in a short time, and the crashes were fixed.