Poll: EA, Bioware, ME3 and DLC abuse

[Elamdri]

I am confused as to what the problem is here...

Likewise. I think this is more an issue of your own personal preferences than a general problem with the industry.

Also, some of the options in your poll are baffling, to say the least.

Customers getting gouged for money isn't a "personal preference" it's an industry problem that needs to be routed out.

You're not being "gouged for money". Don't want it? Don't buy it! Speak with your wallet. If OTHER people are buying it, then they're fine with it, and it is indeed a matter of personnal preference.

Seriously, this whole discussion about how "unfairly" gamers are being treated only shows the overall ignorance of the community when it comes to a game's development process.

Here we go. new gamers on the block.

Tell me, when I buy a game and some of the content ON THE DISC is withheld from the customer. Where is my choice then? You speak of choice as if customers have the control in this industry. we don't. and its because of people like you muddying up the issue.

Put it this way. If you go into a store, and someone at the bakery says "Hey, I have a pie that I will sell you for $60 dollars, but you're only allowed to eat 90% of the pie unless you also buy this box of cookies for $20, then whose fault is it if you buy the pie and then are upset when you can't eat the last 10%?

 

[Iwata]

Here we go. new gamers on the block.

Tell me, when I buy a game and some of the content ON THE DISC is withheld from the customer. Where is my choice then? You speak of choice as if customers have the control in this industry. we don't. and its because of people like you muddying up the issue.

"New gamers"?! "People like you"?! Man, I've been playing games since the ZX Spectrum, so don't try to talk down to me. I'd appreciate it, just as I don't bellitle you. So ease up on the holier-than-thou talk there, sport.

In any event, what does that even mean, "content on the disc"? So publishers have to fill the disc to capacity, and THEN charge you for stuff that doesn't fit? That's your definition of acceptable DLC?

The difference between you and me is simple: I don't go whinning that I'm fully entitled to every single piece of game-related content that the company releases, regardless of what it is. I analyze and buy games depending on their content, and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. Same goes for DLC. It really is that simple.

 

[Elamdri]

Here we go. new gamers on the block.

Tell me, when I buy a game and some of the content ON THE DISC is withheld from the customer. Where is my choice then? You speak of choice as if customers have the control in this industry. we don't. and its because of people like you muddying up the issue.

"New gamers"?! "People like you"?! Man, I've been playing games since the ZX Spectrum, so don't try to talk down to me. I'd appreciate it, just as I don't bellitle you. So ease up on the holier-than-thou talk there, sport.

In any event, what does that even mean, "content on the disc"? So publishers have to fill the disc to capacity, and THEN charge you for stuff that doesn't fit? That's your definition of acceptable DLC?

The difference between you and me is simple: I don't go whinning that I'm fully entitled to every single piece of game-related content that the company releases, regardless of what it is. I analyze and buy games depending on their content, and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. Same goes for DLC. It really is that simple.

You...you I like.

 

[Tony2077]

Here we go. new gamers on the block.

Tell me, when I buy a game and some of the content ON THE DISC is withheld from the customer. Where is my choice then? You speak of choice as if customers have the control in this industry. we don't. and its because of people like you muddying up the issue.

"New gamers"?! "People like you"?! Man, I've been playing games since the ZX Spectrum, so don't try to talk down to me. I'd appreciate it, just as I don't bellitle you. So ease up on the holier-than-thou talk there, sport.

In any event, what does that even mean, "content on the disc"? So publishers have to fill the disc to capacity, and THEN charge you for stuff that doesn't fit? That's your definition of acceptable DLC?

The difference between you and me is simple: I don't go whinning that I'm fully entitled to every single piece of game-related content that the company releases, regardless of what it is. I analyze and buy games depending on their content, and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. Same goes for DLC. It really is that simple.

Sorry you lost my respect when you said 'getting screwed by companies' is a "personal preference".

I thought I laid out the issue pretty clearly. If there is content on the disc I BUY, why am I not entitled to it all? Why do I have to dig in my pockets and scounge up an additional 10 dollars? What are my choices here? Don't enjoy the game fully or pay more. That doesn't seem like I'm in control of what I bought, now does it.

There's nothing entitled about wanting the full game when you paid the full price. What land could you possibly be from when this is not the BASIC CONSUMER PRINCIPAL. You sound like you're from old age England.

You disgust me now. now you're attacking my rights as a consumer because you want to play nicey-nice with corporation. here's a big mo'fucking newsflash mister. The corporations don't want to play nicey nice with you. They want your money that's it. I don't feel 'obligated' like you do to be nice to them. Fuck them! Fuck their shareholders, fuck their ceo's! They give me my fucking product or shit is going to get reaaaal.

you should really stop this holier then thou stuff before you get into more trouble then you already are. if they don't then why am i getting the extra charges for mess effect 3 refunded

 

[Elamdri]

I thought I laid out the issue pretty clearly. If there is content on the disc I BUY, why am I not entitled to it all? Why do I have to dig in my pockets and scounge up an additional 10 dollars? What are my choices here? Don't enjoy the game fully or pay more. That doesn't seem like I'm in control of what I bought, now does it.

There's nothing entitled about wanting the full game when you paid the full price. What land could you possibly be from when this is not the BASIC CONSUMER PRINCIPAL. You sound like you're from old age England.

You disgust me now. now you're attacking my rights as a consumer because you want to play nicey-nice with corporation. here's a big mo'fucking newsflash mister. The corporations don't want to play nicey nice with you. They want your money that's it. I don't feel 'obligated' like you do to be nice to them. Fuck them! Fuck their shareholders, fuck their ceo's! They give me my fucking product or shit is going to get reaaaal.

You're not buying the content on the disc, you're buying a license to use the content on the disc. Paying your $60 only entitles you to what the license says you are entitled to. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

What I don't understand is why people think that the issue hinges on whether or not the content is on the disc or not.

Lets say a game takes up 4.2 gigs on a 4.7 gig disc. Now what is the difference between putting the DLC on the disc and making you download the DLC? Because if you all are right (Which you aren't but I'm humoring you) then all that's going to happen is the DLC that once came on the disc is going to become another 20 minute download once you purchase the game.

You aren't going to magically get that content for free, the publisher is just going to stop putting it on the disc.


You know what I think we really need to do? I think we need to stop with standard pricing for video games. No more of this, every game, no matter what, is $60. Because that's what screwing this up. Everyone thinks that they're entitled to every bit of content a developer produces because "60 bucks is what games cost." Lets let some games be 80-90 dollars, let some be $40.

 

[Tony2077]

you should really stop this holier then thou stuff before you get into more trouble then you already are. if they don't then why am i getting the extra charges for mess effect 3 refunded

So they screwed up their order and they're trying to fix it. Well whoop-dee-fucking-doo. That's what THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO DO!!


See! this is another fantastic example of "new kid" gamers. I stand in awe when you guys pat them on the back for doing something they were SUPPOSE TO DO.

well its better then nothing since some companies tell you to go jump in a lake if you ask them anything and dood stop with the attitude its getting boring. by the sounds of it i'm older then you by many years

 

[Iwata]

Here we go. new gamers on the block.

Tell me, when I buy a game and some of the content ON THE DISC is withheld from the customer. Where is my choice then? You speak of choice as if customers have the control in this industry. we don't. and its because of people like you muddying up the issue.

"New gamers"?! "People like you"?! Man, I've been playing games since the ZX Spectrum, so don't try to talk down to me. I'd appreciate it, just as I don't bellitle you. So ease up on the holier-than-thou talk there, sport.

In any event, what does that even mean, "content on the disc"? So publishers have to fill the disc to capacity, and THEN charge you for stuff that doesn't fit? That's your definition of acceptable DLC?

The difference between you and me is simple: I don't go whinning that I'm fully entitled to every single piece of game-related content that the company releases, regardless of what it is. I analyze and buy games depending on their content, and if I don't like it, I don't buy it. Same goes for DLC. It really is that simple.

Sorry you lost my respect when you said 'getting screwed by companies' is a "personal preference".

I thought I laid out the issue pretty clearly. If there is content on the disc I BUY, why am I not entitled to it all? Why do I have to dig in my pockets and scounge up an additional 10 dollars? What are my choices here? Don't enjoy the game fully or pay more. That doesn't seem like I'm in control of what I bought, now does it.

There's nothing entitled about wanting the full game when you paid the full price. What land could you possibly be from when this is not the BASIC CONSUMER PRINCIPAL. You sound like you're from old age England.

See, now you're just attacking consumers rights because you want to play nicey-nice with the corporation. here's a big mo'fucking newsflash mister. The corporations don't want to play nicey nice with you. They want your money. That's it. I don't feel 'obligated' like you do to be nice to them. To hell with them and their overpaid CEO's and shareholders.

My good man, it's quite clear what your issue here is: the moment you started your anti-corporate rant, you became transparent. You are indeed one of those consumers that feel that once they open their wallets and buy the base product, then the whole catalogue belongs to them, and screw whoever tries to make money out of what is basicaly an entertainment industry of luxury items. That is the very definition of entitlement, and of a first-world problem right there: I like it, I hate you who made it, and give me more for free because of reasons!

So, do as you see fit, but please, do spare us the "fight the power" tirades and Robin Hood-esque rants. I'll repeat: the single, most effective piece of action/activism you can do is NOT BUYING the product you so clearly despise!

 

[Elamdri]

Let's cut the bullshit here.

A company setting it up so that they can squeeze 10 dollars out of a customer, can not be defended by "well you let it happen". I'm sorry I don't have a multi-million corporation with teams of lawyers to defend my rights.

We consumers are at a clear disadvantage now. it was one thing to vote with our wallets when we were dealing with reasonable customers. People who exercised common sense and understood how important our rights were. That was another time, another decade. Right now, we have a bunch of new shit gamers, elderly grandmas and FANBOYS to deal with.

We are outmatched.

yeah, they are in a better position than you, and that sucks. If you don't like it, you have two options:

1. Vote with your wallet like you keep talking about. It may not be the most effective, but it's the easiest and it entirely prevents you from being taken advantage of.

2. Lobby your congressmen. Encourage them to create a law to prevent conduct by businesses that you perceive to be predatory.

Like. Look at this. here you are DEFENDING a company trying to charge us more. if you aren't evidence of how this is an uphill battle than I don't know what is.

Well, two things for me. A: I don't see it as being as bad as everyone thinks, but I have a pretty good understanding of how the whole system works, so that helps. B: I'm kinda trying to get a job with our corporate overlords, so I'd like to not make them angry.

It's like when anti-government conspiracy theorists ask me "Where will you be when the black helicopters come for us" and I say "Flying the helicopter."

 

[Tony2077]

you should really stop this holier then thou stuff before you get into more trouble then you already are. if they don't then why am i getting the extra charges for mess effect 3 refunded

So they screwed up their order and they're trying to fix it. Well whoop-dee-fucking-doo. That's what THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO DO!!


See! this is another fantastic example of "new kid" gamers. I stand in awe when you guys pat them on the back for doing something they were SUPPOSE TO DO.

well its better then nothing since some companies tell you to go jump in a lake if you ask them anything and dood stop with the attitude its getting boring. by the sounds of it i'm older then you by many years

Tony there are many things I'm open minded about. The possibility of you being older than me is not one of them.

doesn't look that way to me and tell me your age and we'll find out

 

[Elamdri]

Here you go again with the defending of evil shit. "dont like it, don't buy it" huk huk. If this isn't the mantra of the new gamers generations. I don't know what is.

What is it about consumer rights that you hate so much? Do you enjoy paying companies more? is that it? are you a shareholder or something? Why are you defending this? WHY? You know what, maybe you're just a cyborg from the future. An AI programmed to destroy the industry as we know it. Because you know what? That sounds more plausible than you willfully being YOUR OWN ENEMY when it comes to YOUR OWN RIGHTS.

What are the rights you keep bringing up? List them please. (I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, it's just easier to having a meaningful conversation if I know what rights you're talking about).

As for your argument that developers will just stop producing extra content. They've already stopped doing that, good sir. They are taking portions from the original game and making them into DLC's. This I will not put up with.

Now there are situations when DLC's are indeed extra content. Fine. I'll pay for that, IF I WANT IT.

When DLC's are made before release, or are on the disc. I'm not paying extra for that. it didn't cost them an extra dime. I'm not paying extra for it. nuts to that.

My argument wasn't that developers are going to stop producing extra content. My argument was that if your rights to extra content hinge on whether or not the content was on the disc when you bought it, all developers are going to do is stopping putting DLC on the discs. You're not going to magically get free content, all that's going to happen is that disc space is going to go to waste.

Personally, I have never run into a game where you had to purchase DLC to fully understand the story of the game, with the exception of expansion packs.

Finally, your last comment. Funny you'd mention that. It seems customers have little control of the price when companies can band together and decide the game is 60 bucks. If games are just universally 60 bucks. Who do you think is going to break faster? The corporation? or the snot-nosed teenage boy who wants to play call of duty? Seems pretty damn obvious to me. btw, I will not be paying 80 bucks for a game unless it fucking shoots lasers and shits out gold.

I mean, clearly what we have now is not what I would call a "capitalist" system for game pricing. I mean, look at Grand Theft Auto 4, which had a budget of $100 million and then look at Assassin's Creed 2, which had a budget of $24 million dollars. AssCreed 2 only cost 1/4th of what it cost to make GTAIV, but they both sold for $60 a copy. Rockstar had to sell over 1.6 Million copies of GTAIV to break even at $60 a copy. AC2 only has to sell 500,000 copies to break even. Meanwhile, we have to pay the same price for the game, no matter the cost to develop it.

 

[Elamdri]

Right now, the only viable option I see is to *****. and ***** and ***** until I FEEL BETTER

Because we know how many problems doing THAT has solved...

 

[Tayh]

I'm not sure why you want to blame anyone at all.
None of the things you mentioned are essential for the game; they're all optional.
You don't want to buy them - fine, we get it. Why make such a big deal out of it?