Poll: England's greatest prime minister?

[mysecondlife]

I've been watching my favorite the Simpsons episode "Homer at Bat" where Wade Boggs and Barney Gumble argues "who is England's Greatest Prime Minister".

Wade Boggs is for Pitt the Elder while Barney is for Lord Palmerston.

Who do you agree with more? The Hall of Fame 3rd baseman or the resident town drunk?

(and yes, I'm bored)

 

[Sixcess]

As a reader of the Flashman novels I have to place my vote for Lord Palmerston.

 

[Gizmo1990]

I realise this is a joke thread but I still have to ignore it and say Churchill. The man made our entire country truly believe that we could win the war while our cities were being reduced to rubble, our forces were getting there arse handed to them and the other friendly counties had either already surrendered, were themselves getting there arse handed to them or were sitting on there arse declaring that it was not there problem.

Got to love him for that.

 

[Genocidicles]

I was expecting this to be a serious thread, and I came in here planning to make a Simpsons reference. Good work OP.

 

[mad825]

I realise this is a joke thread but I still have to ignore it and say Churchill. The man made our entire country truly believe that we could win the war while our cities were being reduced to rubble, our forces were getting there arse handed to them and the other friendly counties had either already surrendered, were themselves getting there arse handed to them or were sitting on there arse declaring that it was not there problem.

Eh, no thanks.

Churchill was a great war general but a bad politician. Hell, after WW2 he lost the general election.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I realise this is a joke thread but I still have to ignore it and say Churchill. The man made our entire country truly believe that we could win the war while our cities were being reduced to rubble, our forces were getting there arse handed to them and the other friendly counties had either already surrendered, were themselves getting there arse handed to them or were sitting on there arse declaring that it was not there problem.

Got to love him for that.

Yeah, no.

Firstly, Churchill was very good as a figurehead. Not so great as a leader, though figureheads are very important. He didn't make the entire country believe, of course, but he did a good job putting on an angry voice and getting support.

Secondly, it's completely false that Britain was alone in early WW2. Britain, and the rest of the Empire/Commonwealth, and various other groups that allied with them might have been alone, in that the US and USSR weren't involved, but that is very far from being alone.

Thirdly, Britain was not having it's cities reduced to rubble, that was way beyond the capability of the German bombers. Though, that wasn't obvious at the time, and had they known what they were doing, they could have done a lot more damage.

 

[CaptainCoxwaggle]

William Pitt the Younger

Churchill for the all the good the man did, didn't shoot Clement Atlee and prevent the fall of the British Empire and in his old age mistook Stalin for a temporary ally of opportunity which brings him down quite a few notches.

 

[Albino Boo]

I am going to have to be pedantic here England has never had a Prime Minister. The position did not come into being until after the 1705 act of union between Scotland and England.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

It's probably Clement Atlee. Post War rebuilding, creation of the NHS, worker's rights, social welfare, housing, education, etc.

Out of those two, well Pitt the Elder is more fun to say so my money's on him.

 

[San Martin]

I'm torn between Thatcher and Blair. On the one hand, Thatcher defended the Falklands, that vital hub of the British Empire, from the pesky Argentines. On the other hand, Blair was the only politician brave enough to stand up to Saddam, heroically defending freedom where no one else would.

 

[Thaluikhain]

William Pitt the Younger

Churchill for the all the good the man did, didn't shoot Clement Atlee and prevent the fall of the British Empire and in his old age mistook Stalin for a temporary ally of opportunity which brings him down quite a few notches.

Not seeing the downsides of those, myself.

I'm torn between Thatcher and Blair. On the one hand, Thatcher defended the Falklands, that vital hub of the British Empire, from the pesky Argentines.

In fairness, there was a (small) number of British citizens on the islands who weren't happy with being conquered, she was obliged to help them.

 

[San Martin]

I'm torn between Thatcher and Blair. On the one hand, Thatcher defended the Falklands, that vital hub of the British Empire, from the pesky Argentines.

In fairness, there was a (small) number of British citizens on the islands who weren't happy with being conquered, she was obliged to help them.

In reality I was just writing silly things for the sake of it. I actually do think Thatcher was justified in defending the islands, because the Argentine 'claim' over them is completely baseless, and is nothing more than imperialism dressed up in the sexy skirts of patriotism. But my god, they are sexy skirts. And I must be right because I'm San Martín, father of South American independence.

 

[suitepee7]

well obviously the answer is Pitt the Younger...

 

[Thaluikhain]

In reality I was just writing silly things for the sake of it. I actually do think Thatcher was justified in defending the islands, because the Argentine 'claim' over them is completely baseless, and is nothing more than imperialism dressed up in the sexy skirts of patriotism. But my god, they are sexy skirts. And I must be right because I'm San Martín, father of South American independence.

I think it's ironic that the unpopular rightwing Argentinian government tried to bolster support with a war. In that it worked for an unpopular less rightwing government.

Also interesting in that the SLR, service rifle used by the British was a variant of the FAL, service rifle used by the Argentinian forces.

 

[Nickolai77]

Churchill standing up to Nazism is certainly commendable, as is also Atlee's achievement in creating the NHS and the Welfare State, but my vote goes for Charles Grey. Otherwise better known as Earl Grey, there can be no greater achievement in Britain than being the creator of Early Grey tea!


(In all seriousness though, Grey's government certainly has a respectable list of accomplishments- They abolished slavery, ended the monopoly of the East India Company, invested £20,000 in building new schools, allowed marriages in non-conformist churches and reformed the poor laws.)

 

[Thaluikhain]

Churchill standing up to Nazism is certainly commendable

If you mean Churchill's decision to go to war with Germany, that's a commonly held belief, but not actually true. War was declared before Churchill came to power, it was in large part due to problems that Churchill caused that cost Chamberlain the government and let him in.

Everyone overlooks Chamberlain, or blames him for not going to war in 1938, but Britain was in no position to go to war, and he used the time he got to build the military up (to an extent). Though, in hindsight, Germany might have been even less prepared for war in 38 than in 39, and didn't have nice chunks of Poland.

 

[manic_depressive13]

William Pitt the Younger

Churchill for the all the good the man did, didn't shoot Clement Atlee and prevent the fall of the British Empire and in his old age mistook Stalin for a temporary ally of opportunity which brings him down quite a few notches.

Not seeing the downsides of those, myself.

Churchill cut a deal with Stalin about who gets which Eastern European countries, including Greece. The interference of Great Britain and the US in Greek politics culminated in a civil war which devastated Greece. You don't see a downside in making deals with a cruel dictator about who gets to manipulate countries already ruined by war, dividing them up like they were slices of cake?

 

[Haerthan]

I realise this is a joke thread but I still have to ignore it and say Churchill. The man made our entire country truly believe that we could win the war while our cities were being reduced to rubble, our forces were getting there arse handed to them and the other friendly counties had either already surrendered, were themselves getting there arse handed to them or were sitting on there arse declaring that it was not there problem.

Got to love him for that.

Ah an imperialist who shafted Eastern Europe and sold Romania to the Communists for a fucking stamp. You English would not have lasted a day if you weren't an island. You only got lucky cause of Hitler's stupidity. So yea please excuse me while I hate on a person who did more evil than good.

 

[Nickolai77]

Churchill standing up to Nazism is certainly commendable

If you mean Churchill's decision to go to war with Germany, that's a commonly held belief, but not actually true. War was declared before Churchill came to power, it was in large part due to problems that Churchill caused that cost Chamberlain the government and let him in.

Everyone overlooks Chamberlain, or blames him for not going to war in 1938, but Britain was in no position to go to war, and he used the time he got to build the military up (to an extent). Though, in hindsight, Germany might have been even less prepared for war in 38 than in 39, and didn't have nice chunks of Poland.

I meant more Churchill's efforts to rally support for defeating Hitler at home and abroad rather than the technicalities of who actually declared war. After Dunkirk there was a strong case for Britain to withdraw from the war and negotiate peace with Hitler- but since Halifax talked himself out of becoming PM, Churchill took charge and he was certainly very vocal in continuing the war. He rallied support for the war at home, and abroad he engineered alliances with the USSR and the USA and fasciculated the whole process of the allied powers coming together and helping eachother win the war.