Poll: Equal Rights for Smokers

[curty129]

Also, bring back smoking in clubs/pubs ands such. This whole anti-smoking thing is getting out of hand.

No, don't. Non-smoker's right to clean air supersedes smoker's rights to slowly kill themselves wherever they please.

Private premises, no one's forcing you into there to breathe the evil fumes of death.

OT: Yes, at least here in Britain - everyone is forced to pay for the NHS, therefore everyone deserves equal treatmenmt under it.

Also, bring back smoking in clubs/pubs ands such. This whole anti-smoking thing is getting out of hand.

No, don't. Non-smoker's right to clean air supersedes smoker's rights to slowly kill themselves wherever they please.

Then go to a smokeless bar to poison yourself. You have no "Right" to clean air, there is no inherent law stating you should be free of toxins. Cigarettes are a LEGAL product, bought by AN ADULT, making an INFORMED choice. And you have the gall to deny him the ability to enjoy his purchased product?

It comes down to choice. You can choose to go to a bar that allows smoking, or you can choose to go to one that doesn't. But these laws have removed the right to choose, have restricted a portion of the populace.....but it's ok with you because then you can down your fermented poison in peace.

Surprises me how wen it comes to tobacco, most open minded people are all of a sudden like BAN IT ALL BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT FUCKKKKK
It's about CHOICE.
It's my CHOICE to fill my lungs with this shit, and as long as I'm not filling yours with it too, then what's the problem?

You three, please see my point about having a right to not be interfered with by the actions of another. You have had NOTHING UNDESERVED restricted - you are still free to smoke in your own home.

Their point is there are pubs that are practically meant for smoking in. Before the smoking ban in England, the only non-smokers there were not bothered by the smoke. Now smoking's banned in these buildings and people who were put off by smoking STILL don't visit these pubs. They have no right to say who can or cannot smoke in these places when they're not affected by it and the people who are affected really couldn't care less.
Fair enough, ban smoking in restaurants and bars where non-smokers visit regularly and are genuinely disgusted by the smoke, but not in places where it isn't considered a problem.

The last two quotes were spot on. That sounds a hell of a lot better than what's going on now.
I'd say give the owners/managers of the pub/bar/club the choice to decide whther smoking is or isn't allowed inside their property.

 

[LockHeart]

You three, please see my point about having a right to not be interfered with by the actions of another. You have had NOTHING UNDESERVED restricted - you are still free to smoke in your own home.

And what about the rights of a proprietor being interfered with in the name of your choices and views? Don't try and get on the moral high horse here, you're restricting people's freedoms (not only to smoke, but also how people can choose to use their property) based on your personal opinion.

 

[Connor Lonske]

Your sick, your sick. You don't want to help someone based on there past, but I would never let them get worse. No one deserves to die dew to not getting medical treatment for something. It not our right to say who should die and who should not.

PS:They are paying for it through there taxes.

 

[Angerwing]

I think that, should they fall ill from their "condition", we should help them. But I lack any sympathy.

Same way I would talk down a man on the edge of a skyscraper, and take my time to watch him afterwards and make sure he's okay, but I'd still think him as pathetic for his cowardice

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

Back on topic: Increase the already enormous taxes on cigarettes; it deters even more smokers, and it provides more money for health care (effectively having the smokers take care of themselves).

 

[RicoADF]

That is possibly one the worst structured arguments I've ever heard.

Also, bring back smoking in clubs/pubs ands such. This whole anti-smoking thing is getting out of hand.

The rest of us have the right to walk into a pub/club and no choke to death on smoke. If someone wants to smoke its their choice, but the rest of us has the right not to be suffering due to their choice. As for medical care, they should get it but for organ donations non smokers should get priority (as is the case in Australia) since smokers chose to take the risk.

As long as you ARE only killing yourself its fine.

But It should be a crime to do it around your kids, its just wrong.

In Australia its illegal to smoke in a car with kids in it, I wish it was illegal to smoke around non smokers tbh (basically categorize it as assault) since smoking around others is causing them damage. If someone wants to smoke thats their choice, just don't kill others with your passive smoke.

 

[Manbro]

Yes they should have equal coverage. Not giving them coverage is like refusing to help someone who was in a mountain climbing accident and just saying "well, you risked your own health really".

 

[JanatUrlich]

Actually, I've spoken to people who deal with suicidals and that's the exact attitude they give. Most of the time people standing on the edge of a cliff/ building just want someone to talk to, so usually when that happens, a paramedic, doctor or whoever will just walk up to them and say "well jump! What are you waiting for?. Get it over with and stop wasting my damn time!".

The suicidal gets pissed off that he/ she isn't having the attention they were wanting and will, most times than not, climb back down. Although they do have the few that will jump.

The person who told you that is lying.

1. They're not legally allowed to tell someone to kill themselves.

2. If someone had said that to me instead of helping me when I tried to kill myself, I would've done it and I'm so glad I got help instead of aggression.

 

[Cryfear101]

Also, bring back smoking in clubs/pubs ands such. This whole anti-smoking thing is getting out of hand.

No, don't. Non-smoker's right to clean air supersedes smoker's rights to slowly kill themselves wherever they please.

Here here!

If you wanna kill yourself, don't make us share the fumes!

The idea is , us smokers are taking you pink lung asses down with us MWAHAHAHHAHAHA!

 

[bigolbear]

ok.. lets get this strait.

Im an over weight smoker. Ive done some drugs in my life and i used to drink a fair bit (not much any more tho)

I think i should be entitled to all the same health care as some one who is a fitness freak who jogs every morning and survives off a lettuce leaf sandwich. Infact I kinda hate these people because most of them are self superior pricks. Still despite the fact there mostly self obsessessed muppets i wouldn't deny them medical care.

The fact is that tax revenue on tobaco and alcohol more than pays for the nhs so any coments of we must pay for it are dumb - because we already do.

If the principle of your freind is no medical care for self inflicted problems does this apply to drivers involved in accidents (no one makes us drive), sports injuries, what about an old lady that slips and falls.. no one made her go out walking down the icy street...(to get a pack of fags.)

 

[Collymilad08]

Yes they deserve equal rights.

Where does it end? Do people who eat too much get the same healthcare? What about drinkers? People who do extreme sports? People who got injured whilst speeding? Yeah, exactly.

Then there's the fact that smokers pay for the NHS and it would probably collapse if people didn't smoke. Tax from cigs > money spent on smoking related diseases in the NHS - and by quite a large ****ing margin.

Many Non-smokers are becoming increasingly whiney and some are bordering on Nazi's. I'm sick of listening to them.

 

[sneakypenguin]

The rest of us have the right to walk into a pub/club and no choke to death on smoke. If someone wants to smoke its their choice, but the rest of us has the right not to be suffering due to their choice. As for medical care, they should get it but for organ donations non smokers should get priority (as is the case in Australia) since smokers chose to take the risk.

Thing is you really don't have a "right" to any private establishment. You can make the choice to not go to a bar with smoking, and if there is enough of you someone will create a smokeless bar.

 

[Collymilad08]

The rest of us have the right to walk into a pub/club and no choke to death on smoke. If someone wants to smoke its their choice, but the rest of us has the right not to be suffering due to their choice. As for medical care, they should get it but for organ donations non smokers should get priority (as is the case in Australia) since smokers chose to take the risk.

Thing is you really don't have a "right" to any private establishment. You can make the choice to not go to a bar with smoking, and if there is enough of you someone will create a smokeless bar.

Exactly.

 

[Collymilad08]

You know, it's conceivable that smokers could need medical help for conditions not at all related to their smoking.

That taken into account, there's no reason to treat them differently based on a life choice they're making which doesn't hurt anyone.

But that's just it. THEY ARE HURTING OTHERS. Second-Hand smoke kills. If anything, it should be illegal to smoke.

I, for one, am at about a pack a day, and I have been noticing more and more how smokers are treated like second class citizens. North Carolina will be inacting a public smoking ban come January, and I can't be more confused. We're THE tobacco state. There are cities called Tobaccoville and Winston-Salem. Having already reached a recession and the new Gov wants to limit one of our biggest sources of state (And federal) income. It doesn't make any sense.

There's also a lot of incongruencies in most smoking laws. The government has stated that people smoke for one reason alone, that reason being addiction. They classify addiction as a disability. So, not allowing people to smoke some places is like not having a wheelchair ramp.

I need a smoke.

Dude, you ARE second-class citizens, or at least should be. It's entirely your fault and you're endangering and annoying other people with your stupid, stupid habit. Although, a place called 'THE tobacco state' should be like a haven for you guys.

Whoa whoa, there guy. First off second hand smoke is hardly dangerous unless you're is a heavily smokey environment for multiple hours on end. Furthermore, I have no problems with places having a smoking section so we smokers can enjoy our cigarettes without disturbing non-smokers. These areas are usually located at a bar, as the consensus is "Well, they're there to drink, and drinking is more dangerous than smoking ever can be. So, they're already putting themselves in 'Danger.'" Just because you don't like it (And, looking at your age, can't legally) doesn't mean it's as horrible as you make it sound.

Finally, I'm a war veteran, so I really don't think that a smoke really needs to give me any sort of second class citizen status.

Don't pull that card. If you joined voluntary, I wouldn't pity you for a second, and if you didn't it still doesn't give you the right to complain. You are second-class citizens.

Wow. Just wow. I'm sure there are plenty of people who smoked that have contributed a hell of a lot more to the world than you ever will. Are they second class citizens too? What a small mind to make a blanket statement about a group of people based on a habit they have.

 

[Ninja_X]

That is possibly one the worst structured arguments I've ever heard.

Also, bring back smoking in clubs/pubs ands such. This whole anti-smoking thing is getting out of hand.

The rest of us have the right to walk into a pub/club and no choke to death on smoke. If someone wants to smoke its their choice, but the rest of us has the right not to be suffering due to their choice. As for medical care, they should get it but for organ donations non smokers should get priority (as is the case in Australia) since smokers chose to take the risk.

As long as you ARE only killing yourself its fine.

But It should be a crime to do it around your kids, its just wrong.

In Australia its illegal to smoke in a car with kids in it, I wish it was illegal to smoke around non smokers tbh (basically categorize it as assault) since smoking around others is causing them damage. If someone wants to smoke thats their choice, just don't kill others with your passive smoke.

I wish that was the case here in America.


I'm gonna go bug my congressmen.

 

[UpSkirtDistress]

Smokers do pay for their health care ,I'm Irish and here a pack of 20 Marlboro red is 8.55euro the highest in Europe, just to put that in perspective in France the same pack would be 5euro and in Spain less again. The tax on a single pack of cigarettes is 6euro nearly 300% more then what the pack is actually worth. All that tax doesn't even all go into health care and they still want to keep hiking up the price.

If governments cared so much they could just outlaw smoking but they never will because of the tax incentives and while on this topic why not still extra tax on fast food or alcohol, sunbed usage or any of the other things that in large doses endanger your health.

 

[GrinningManiac]

I think that, should they fall ill from their "condition", we should help them. But I lack any sympathy.

Same way I would talk down a man on the edge of a skyscraper, and take my time to watch him afterwards and make sure he's okay, but I'd still think him as pathetic for his cowardice

The so-called 'psychotically depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote 'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

Back on topic: Increase the already enormous taxes on cigarettes; it deters even more smokers, and it provides more money for health care (effectively having the smokers take care of themselves).

...True, but I'm talking about suicide. The guy who lost his job/girlfriend/trust fund. I understand why people jumped from burning buildings, but I mean suicide, not mindless fear

 

[TheLefty]

That was supposed to change the subject but OK. You've got me at people who drink alcohol excessively but there are a lot of people who don't it's takes a lot for simply being fat to be that harmful on someones health.

Being fat is harmful to your health. That's a fact. Also, I mentioned it because a lot of people get a lot of shit for being smokers, yet it seems to be completely taboo to tell someone who is fat to get off his ass and start exercising.

And don't give me any of that "it's genetic" crap.

people smoke and hurt everyone around them, even the ones that chose not to smoke. People who work around smokers suffer for it, the children of parents who smoke suffer for it, and random passers by suffer for it.

Your "right" to put what ever you like in your body ends as soon as it comes close to entering my body. I see it as a form of assault and will respond accordingly.

I'll quote Scamola as part of my defense. Smokers aren't simply hurting themselves, they're hurting anyone near them. Just because you want shit in your lungs doesn't I do. You said fat people and drunker don't get as much crap but that's because being overweight only hurts you and being drunk only hurts idiots you get wasted and then try do do a stunt or drive or something.