Poll: Ex-marine shot at 70 times hit atleast 60 bleeds out because SWAT team wouldn't let paramedic's in

[Smagmuck_]

One Man does not equal an entire team of paramedics... These are facts.

 

[Tdc2182]

He was waving a AR-15 at police offers. Of course he was shot 60 times. It is also extremely unsurprising that this took place in Tucson, Arizona. NOTHING GOOD ever happens in Arizona, especially Tucson. Tucson makes you not believe in God.

Hey wait a minute, screw you brah. I live in Tucson. There's no more bad things that happen here then don't happen anywhere else.

Also, he had a gun because he most likely thought someone was breaking into his home.

Christ they fucked up big time. I'm the opposite of the "hate the police" group. But Godamn, they fucked up. All for weed (which they didn't even find). We really need to get our fucking act together as a country. Weed remaining illegal is still based off caveman mentality. A drug that has never killed anyone just got this man shot.

Whoever shot first needs to be charged with Manslaughter, whoever was in charge needs to be fired.

Especially since you are police officers, this cannot go unpunished.

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

So, where's the poll?

 

[Romidude]

Its always morbidly funny (to me at least) when a military vet dies unfairly in the country he just fought for. I know this is terrible, and yes it is terrible, but I dont know, thats just what I think.

SWAT are definitely int he wrong here, regardless of if he was armed or not. You're tellingm e you couldnt have stunned him? And you wouldnt let him see Paramedics? What was he going to do, gut one and use the guy's intestines as a garrote? Oh well, another fatherless young child, another young man's life gone, and another screw up that could have been handled better if five seconds would have been taken to just say hi, whats up.

You're not alone.
OT: It's America, he had a gun, he got killed by twitchy SWAT forces, how surprising.

*EDIT* Yeah, watched the vid. Typical of the cops/SWAT to kill him infront of his 4 year old son.

 

[Caliostro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak&feature=player_embedded

Helmetcam footage (if you didn't already see it)

Actually... That makes it even worse... It's just a fucking gang land style execution.

The guy had really loud music, he couldn't have heard the knock on the door and the fucking siren sounded like a car alarm. How the fuck do you go from a gentle knock on the door to "shoot on sight" assault? This is a guy with a spotless record, a 2 tour vet "american hero" as you would, and you go in like he owns the fucking cartel?

One of the cops is even shooting a .45 "gangsta style" over the others. What the fuck is that? There's no point in that. You're not gonna hit shit. You're especially not gonna hit shit the other 3 officers with automatics didn't hit. It's just shooting bullets downrange.

But you know what? All of that, even given all of that, would have been excusable, if not for one completely unforgivable detail - They never let him receive assistance. I know what you're thinking "35 bullet holes later you're more swiss cheese than man... No amount of medical aid will fix you". Maybe. But there's no good reason to not let them try unless you wanna make damn sure he doesn't survive.

 

[internetzealot1]

And you can't shout "Police" or something? Jesus, guys...

 

[ThongBonerstorm]

This is why I don't like america's police system. Don't they have to show you a warrent to get into your damned house? Don't they have to pronouce themselves as Police? I mean if someone just randomly bashed into my house, I'd blow them away, Cops, Robbers, Fourign Invaders, anyone.

Did the guy even fire his gun?

Don't they have to fire at you first in War with that Jeneva convintion crap? Does this apply to police?

And think, THIS WAS BECAUSE OF SUSPECTED WEED TRAFFICING. I could understand Cocain, but Majiuana? I disagree with using it, but still, they took that a little far.

I hope all of those cops lose there jobs, or better yet, lets redo the entire police system (Atleast for my city, because we've got a lot of problems) Get guys from the military at street corners, your not likely to trafic drugs if there is a guy with an assault rifle at every turn.

Your ignorance, it hurts my face. you could have at least read the article, not just the headline. they did have a warrent, it never said they didn't identify themselves, and if you tried, i'd hope you got shot to shit as well.

guy didn't need to fire his gun, what kind of sense would it make to have to wait some someone to shoot at you to defend yourself? and do you even know what the Jeneva convention is?

also, he could have been accused of shoplifting a chocolate bar, thats not the issue, HE PULLED A GUN ON COPS what the hell do you expect to happen?

 

[chiggerwood]

It's Pima county, so I can safely say that I'm not at all surprised by this. Reason#296 of why I left AZ

 

[Zergadooful]

So... Pointless, unnecessary violence that could easily have been prevented? Oh right, the SWAT team was dispatched for "Alleged marijuana trafficking" Makes sense now.

 

[Littlee300]

And you can't shout "Police" or something? Jesus, guys...

This
After shouting this and they don't put their hands up their probably guilty whether they have a gun or not.
Edit: I could probably drive to where this happened in an hour

 

[Gladiateher]

Wow, I can't believe how many people are siding with the police here. A few points i'd like to make.

1. SWAT officers DO carry flashbangs and they could have tried to stun him.

2. Looking up the current occupant of a house and their background is really easy for a police officer. I'm not saying it was a factor but sometimes veterans have this thing called PTSD and if you break into their house unexpectedly making loud noises, training tends to take over.

3. If I was a SWAT officer I would be pretty fucking sure that the person I was shooting deserved it. It's a load of bullshit to say that the SWAT team needed to fire just because he was armed. SWAT officers are supposed to be the elite, the best. You have to have guts and even an acceptance that you may die. It's not the regular police force it's "Special Weapons and Tactics" In this case with a heavy emphasis on special.

 

[supergood15]

first, it's former marine. not ex. second the police need to announce that they are police as they enter the home. regardless of whether or not it's a raid.

 

[godofallu]

This is why I don't like america's police system. Don't they have to show you a warrent to get into your damned house? Don't they have to pronouce themselves as Police? I mean if someone just randomly bashed into my house, I'd blow them away, Cops, Robbers, Fourign Invaders, anyone.

Did the guy even fire his gun?

Don't they have to fire at you first in War with that Jeneva convintion crap? Does this apply to police?

And think, THIS WAS BECAUSE OF SUSPECTED WEED TRAFFICING. I could understand Cocain, but Majiuana? I disagree with using it, but still, they took that a little far.

I hope all of those cops lose there jobs, or better yet, lets redo the entire police system (Atleast for my city, because we've got a lot of problems) Get guys from the military at street corners, your not likely to trafic drugs if there is a guy with an assault rifle at every turn.

1 They do need a warrant, 2 they do need to say they are police. 3 He didn't fire his gun. 4 No the cops don't need to let armed men shoot first, that's retarded.

The problem here, if you did read the article, is that the police didn't let the guy know they were coming AND didn't tell him they were police.

Shooting a guy armed with a military grade rifle pointing at you isn't wrong.

The fact that the seemingly good guy was led to believe there were intruders breaking in was what was wrong. Clearly the police are going to be getting into big trouble here.

 

[Littlee300]

SWAT are definitely int he wrong here, regardless of if he was armed or not. You're tellingm e you couldnt have stunned him? And you wouldnt let him see Paramedics? What was he going to do, gut one and use the guy's intestines as a garrote? Oh well, another fatherless young child, another young man's life gone, and another screw up that could have been handled better if five seconds would have been taken to just say hi, whats up.

Stun him...with what? He was at the end of a long, dark hallway and armed with a rifle. Besides, SWAT doesn't generally carry non-lethal weaponry. Also, not only do tazers have ridiculously shitty range, they don't work half the time because the prog doesn't reach the skin or a malfunction, or...well..there are a ton of reasons that tazers are never a good choice.

I'd agree that they should have let the paramedics in, though...but more importantly, the man survived for just over an hour after being shot sixty times. The hell? I know that bullet wounds aren't nearly as lethal as portrayed in the media, but SIXTY TIMES?

Edit: I focused a bit too much on tazers, but as a Police Officer Trainee, non-lethal weapons very often...aren't.

Like I said, this could have all be avoided if the SWAT just said hey, sup? But yeah, I get that not all non lethal weapons stay non lethal, but there were still weapons that they could have used, techniques or something. I mean, this was Pot trafficing, this wasnt a hostage situation, this wasnt a school shooting, this wasnt any of that.

When its one guy (based on what they were trying to stop) and an ex military man at that, I think you can question it. As SWAT you're supposed to take in everything, and there are many things wrong with the picture they either missed (and thus did their job poorly) or ignored (and thus just suck in general as human beings and felt a bit itchy to shoot).

I"m not saying SWAT's bad. Police do it to from time to time, the Military, pretty much any branch of any level does. And I get it, protocol and all calls for their actions, cause of where the guy was. Just this was a poorly handled incident where something in at least one of the SWAT officer's heads should have went off.

especially with that i wont let the paramedic touch him for an hour mentality they were holding.

... but whatever, i'll lose wathever argument this develops into I'ms ure. its just my opinion.

Considering that Jose Guerena has a Mexican name...I can probably safely assume that some kind of racial profiling went into the accident that caused SWAT to break into his house instead of the right one.

No you can't.

 

[Biosophilogical]

Its always morbidly funny (to me at least) when a military vet dies unfairly in the country he just fought for. I know this is terrible, and yes it is terrible, but I dont know, thats just what I think.

Humour = Tragedy + Distancing. So horrible situations like this get funnier the less directly you are involved (either emotionally or literally). So you aren't a bad person to find it funny, just an odd one.

OT: That's pretty horrible.

 

[intheweeds]

This is appalling, and yet not really surprising. I plan on moving to Canada as soon as I can support myself, because the USA is kinda f'ed up at the moment.

I wouldn't be so sure... this is Queen and Spadina in Toronto during G20 last year. These people were not protesters, they just happened to be on one of the BUSIEST corners in Toronto when the police thought a protest was going to break out.

These people were illegally detained there for hours, cold in the pouring rain and not told why. Some were beaten with batons if they asked questions. In videos you can hear the police screaming at people to disperse or face arrest - as you can see there is no way to disperse.

There are many lawsuits pending against the Toronto police currently. This was only one area. People were beaten down arrested and held for days with no charges. The whole thing was very Kafka...

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/f5/61/965ad4774679a20f722f676de830.jpeg

My point is the police have a corruptible amount of power anywhere you go... at least we get free health care.

 

[Dense_Electric]

For MARI-FUCKING-JUANIA? Holy shit, are we really that desperate to prevent people exercising their own free will that we're willing to kill innocent people, veterans no less, in order to do it? This is disgusting.

Now understand, I'm not blaming those SWAT officers personally. I'm blaming the government for this nonsensical "war on drugs" that is creating so much more trouble than it's preventing. The people behind it should be put on trial.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

In the right to shoot, in the wrong to prohibit paramedics. This almost sounds like something out of a Jason Bourne novel, because I almost wanna say conspiracy. All of this was illogical, and I think this sounds a bit set up.

 

[Ninjat_126]

I get that they need the element of surprise in a raid like this.

But by the time they've broken the door down, anyone who was going to wake up has woken up.

Is it really compromising your safety that much to just shout "STOP! POLICE!"?

This almost sounds like an execution. Burst in, gun down this guy and wait for him to bleed to death, then cover up the details.